David Clarkson Discussion Thread. Part V

[Duke Silver]

Well the poster was kinda crying like a little girl, not saying that "Clarkie" is..not yet anyway. I don't like the attitude that "its not the players fault that the GM gave him that contract".

This "crying like a little girl" schtick has to end. First, it's tired. Then it's borderline sexist to boot.

Do people not know how contracts and negotiations work? And furthermore its a two way agreement. Its not give me as much money as I can milk you for and then not be able to earn it.

Do you? Have you ever worked in a collective bargaining environment? That's exactly what every player pays his agent to do: to maximize their value.

"No, that's fine, give me less than that. My playing career could be over any given shift, but I'd rather you billionaires save money than provide more security for myself and my family."

Case in point was Bolland leaving his hometown team for larger $ figures to play in the NHL graveyard known as Florida.

And newsflash: 95% of UFAs are overpaid relative to their production. Thus is the nature of bidding wars among billionaires and hundred-millionaires.

 

[carko32]

I'd keep 3rd line and play them more. Maybe even make them our 2nd line, but only in terms of icetime, since they had a lot of puck.

And regarding one of the most expensive 3rd lines in league - LA has 3rd line of Williams-Stoll-Brown, that costs them 12,775M in caphit. But that is affordable as long as Pearson and Toffoli are on ELC, they'll have some troubles after they have to resign them.

 

[Dirty Dan]

I don't like him or his wife but Clarkie is playing like A MAN right now, respect mate. But that contract is brutal I fear for the future

 

[CBinTokyo]

This "crying like a little girl" schtick has to end. First, it's tired. Then it's borderline sexist to boot.



Do you? Have you ever worked in a collective bargaining environment? That's exactly what every player pays his agent to do: to maximize their value.

"No, that's fine, give me less than that. My playing career could be over any given shift, but I'd rather you billionaires save money than provide more security for myself and my family."

Case in point was Bolland leaving his hometown team for larger $ figures to play in the NHL graveyard known as Florida.

And newsflash: 95% of UFAs are overpaid relative to their production. Thus is the nature of bidding wars among billionaires and hundred-millionaires.

Exactly, you negotiate (or have your agent negotiate) for the value the market is willing to pay. Leaving money on the table for no reason is foolish.

The guy you quoted should go into HR tomorrow and demand a lower paycheck!

 

[hockeyfanz*]

This "crying like a little girl" schtick has to end. First, it's tired. Then it's borderline sexist to boot.



Do you? Have you ever worked in a collective bargaining environment? That's exactly what every player pays his agent to do: to maximize their value.

"No, that's fine, give me less than that. My playing career could be over any given shift, but I'd rather you billionaires save money than provide more security for myself and my family."

Case in point was Bolland leaving his hometown team for larger $ figures to play in the NHL graveyard known as Florida.

And newsflash: 95% of UFAs are overpaid relative to their production. Thus is the nature of bidding wars among billionaires and hundred-millionaires.

The point is completely overlooked...again by Mr Duke. No surprise. Of COURSE the agent and player will negotiate the highest possible salary. DUH!!

Who in gawds name is arguing this point? Who?

I'd love to throw a line about reading and math comprehension...cause that schtick never gets old...or do you watch the games?

If you take the big money...understand there is responsibility which accompanies that. That's the point. Throw in that the fact that its a hard cap and you are no longer just screwing the organization (which I couldn't care less because MLSE is money grubbing corporation).

More importantly you screw over the fans starving for a any semblance of a successful franchise.

Don't you ever stop?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Exactly, you negotiate (or have your agent negotiate) for the value the market is willing to pay. Leaving money on the table for no reason is foolish.

The guy you quoted should go into HR tomorrow and demand a lower paycheck!

Well the equivalent of the Clarkson contract, I guess would be to make 400K a year to be a school custodian (that's a caretaker for those who are unfamiliar).

I certainly earn my money. I know this because I don't get paid 400K to sweep highschool hallways.

So what you guys are saying is that, oh boy, Clarkie really knows how to yield a mop and bucket. And he comes to work 5 days a week!

 

[CBinTokyo]

Well the equivalent of the Clarkson contract, I guess would be to make 400K a year to be a school custodian (that's a caretaker for those who are unfamiliar).

I certainly earn my money. I know this because I don't get paid 400K to sweep highschool hallways.

So what you guys are saying is that, oh boy, Clarkie really knows how to yield a mop and bucket. And he comes to work 5 days a week!

If the school system, for whatever reason, was willing to offer you that $400k for a 7 year contract, would you take it or would you leave it on the table?

 

[JackJ]

If the school system, for whatever reason, was willing to offer you that $400k for a 7 year contract, would you take it or would you leave it on the table?

He also knew exactly what the expectations would be. His effort level has increased substantially over last season but @5m per 15-20G/15A-20A is the bare minimum to earn that deal.

 

[jazzeyman]

You can't blame Clarkson for the contract.

Nonis should be fired on the spot for Phaneuf's and Clarkson's contracts.

I can't stand watching Clarkson. He is a terrible hockey player. But as bad as he is, he could be trying his best.

It's all on Nonis.

 

[bunjay]

He's been much more effective than last year, but people shouldn't be getting too excited about paying $5mil for a third liner...who's not the best player on his line

We have sunk so low.

 

[Nithoniniel]

As I see it, the responsibility for the sensible use of cap assets is on management, not on the people management decides to use those assets on.

It would be one thing if Clarkson was not playing hard and trying his best, but he is. He is playing just like the player he's been for his entire career, the game that earned him that contract. That's all he can do. To blame him for not becoming much better is ridiculous.

The issue here is that your perceived value of Clarksons contributions are much lower than managements perceived value of his contributions was. And that's not his fault.

So no, he is not screwing over the organization and he is screwing over the fans. If you feel someone did, then that's all on Nonis and the pro scouts.

 

[ToneBone03]

Still a bad contract even though he's playing infinitely better this season. If he keeps it up the burden of his contract won't be as stinging to us fans.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

If the school system, for whatever reason, was willing to offer you that $400k for a 7 year contract, would you take it or would you leave it on the table?

What if it meant the school couldn't afford to pay teachers to teach your children at school..which is why they are there in the first place?

 

[Nithoniniel]

What if it meant the school couldn't afford to pay teachers to teach your children at school..which is why they are there in the first place?

Then the school is run by idiots who deserve to be criticized. It's still not your responsibility to make sure, as a custodian, that the school uses its money well.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Then the school is run by idiots who deserve to be criticized. It's still not your responsibility to make sure, as a custodian, that the school uses its money well.

No but as a parent (fan), you wouldn't be pissed off at the union (player) that paid this clown 400K per year to mop the floors while your kid doesn't have a math teacher? And furthermore your taxes will be increased (ticket prices), so that the school can afford that math teacher.

I agree that Nonis is the main culprit here, no doubt....but your view and that of others is that the player accepting the big payout doesn't share in the responsibility to deliver his part of the deal. If you can't produce like a 5.25M dollar player, you shouldn't be paid like.

How do you think a talented kid making league minimum feels in the dressing room, sitting beside a plug who can barely skate making 5.25M? It must be great for team unity and cohesiveness. Stuff of real champions.

Dave Nonis should have lost his job BEFORE he even made this atrocity of a deal but definitely afterwards.

 

[Nithoniniel]

No but as a parent (fan), you wouldn't be pissed off at the union (player) that paid this clown 400K per year to mop the floors while your kid doesn't have a math teacher?

I wouldn't, because I know where to put blame at those that bear the responsibility. I would be absolutely livid at others, not the custodian.

It is pretty simple really. If you are pissed at how the team allocates its cap resources, then blame the ones that handle the cap resources.

Clarkson has one responsibility in this situation, to play the game that earned him the contract to the best of his ability. Which he does. The rest has nothing to do with him.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I wouldn't, because I know where to put blame at those that bear the responsibility. I would be absolutely livid at others, not the custodian.

It is pretty simple really. If you are pissed at how the team allocates its cap resources, then blame the ones that handle the cap resources.

Clarkson has one responsibility in this situation, to play the game that earned him the contract to the best of his ability. Which he does. The rest has nothing to do with him.

Disagree...as a fan I take exception to a slug taking up so much of the teams cap...and so should you. It means that the team is handcuffed by this bum who negotiated this contract....

Furthermore..I should be pleased with this guy's performance because he resembles a hockey player this year?

I'll save that for you and the rest of the fans who don't give a rats ass about winning.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I don't like him or his wife but Clarkie is playing like A MAN right now, respect mate. But that contract is brutal I fear for the future

The farther into the future you go the less the contract holds the team down. Cap hit will continue to rise and players of his caliber will all be paid this much.

He is overpaid right now for his production but the future doesn't scare me more then right now.

 

[bobber]

I wouldn't, because I know where to put blame at those that bear the responsibility. I would be absolutely livid at others, not the custodian.

It is pretty simple really. If you are pissed at how the team allocates its cap resources, then blame the ones that handle the cap resources.

Clarkson has one responsibility in this situation, to play the game that earned him the contract to the best of his ability. Which he does. The rest has nothing to do with him.

Exactly. When you get as many passionate fans as the Leafs have you are bound to get a few haters. Clarkson certainly had many issues last season and fans were right to be upset. Most were originally happy that the Leafs signed Clarkson. It's obvious from his stat history he would never be a Kessel or Stamkos. He was picked up to play the roll he is playing this season. Nothing more. If the management over paid its there fault regardless of the fact that some can't get that through their skulls. Nonis knows this as well. It's all on Shanny's shoulders now. He pulls the strings. They brought the mighty Spotter up from the Marlie's to get Clarkie back on the track. He played for Spott and Deboer in junior where he was a fan favourite because of his grit. What you see now is what you get. If you want more you will be a little old man with air down to your ankles waiting for it.

 

[mcleex]

If only we had this version of Clarkson when we had our playoff series against Boston. That could have been a huge difference-maker.

Also out of curiosity why do people not like his wife, what did she do?

 

[ACC1224]

If only we had this version of Clarkson when we had our playoff series against Boston. That could have been a huge difference-maker.

Also out of curiosity why do people not like his wife, what did she do?

I'll guess, made him choose Toronto over Edmonton?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Disagree...as a fan I take exception to a slug taking up so much of the teams cap...and so should you. It means that the team is handcuffed by this bum who negotiated this contract....

Furthermore..I should be pleased with this guy's performance because he resembles a hockey player this year?

I'll save that for you and the rest of the fans who don't give a rats ass about winning.

Nice assumptions made of me as a person there. Kind of sad that you can't argue without making it personal.

I take exception to a third liner taking up a lot of the cap for sure, that doesn't mean I go around blaming him for it when it's not his fault. As I said before, Clarkson played the same game he does now to earn himself that contract. He is not responsible for making sure that GMs evaluate that game correctly, he is just responsible for playing that way afterwards as well. That's where his responsibility ends.

Now Nonis on the other hand did an awful move and should have known better. Both because he actually sought out Clarkson as if that's what this team needs, and because of the contract given out.

I'm pleased with Clarkson as a player this year. I'm not pleased with him as an asset, due to the contract.

Now I care about winning, and I care about the team winning which is why I'm not happy with some of the moves and direction this team has taken. I won't, however, start resorting to resenting people for things out of their control and calling them names on an online messaging board, for reasons I find pretty obvious.

 

[ScotsLeaf]

I don't like him or his wife but Clarkie is playing like A MAN right now, respect mate. But that contract is brutal I fear for the future

Forgive me but out of curiousity ,why don't you like his wife?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Nice assumptions made of me as a person there. Kind of sad that you can't argue without making it personal.

I take exception to a third liner taking up a lot of the cap for sure, that doesn't mean I go around blaming him for it when it's not his fault. As I said before, Clarkson played the same game he does now to earn himself that contract. He is not responsible for making sure that GMs evaluate that game correctly, he is just responsible for playing that way afterwards as well. That's where his responsibility ends.

Now Nonis on the other hand did an awful move and should have known better. Both because he actually sought out Clarkson as if that's what this team needs, and because of the contract given out.

I'm pleased with Clarkson as a player this year. I'm not pleased with him as an asset, due to the contract.

Now I care about winning, and I care about the team winning which is why I'm not happy with some of the moves and direction this team has taken. I won't, however, start resorting to resenting people for things out of their control and calling them names on an online messaging board, for reasons I find pretty obvious.

a.) who was called names?

b.) If you are okay with David Clarkson sucking up 5.25M of cap per year and "happy" with his play..then Im sorry you dont care about winning.

 

[Nithoniniel]

a.) who was called names?

b.) If you are okay with David Clarkson sucking up 5.25M of cap per year and "happy" with his play..then Im sorry you dont care about winning.

a) Some have. Not that hard to notice around here.

b) Reading comprehension? I said that I'm happy with him as a player, but as an asset (including the contract in my evaluation) I'm not happy. I thought I made that obvious enough.