TSN Radio Daly Announced 2016-2017 Cap will Remain Flat - How Does This Impact the Leafs?

ULF_55

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According to a source with ties to the Players’ Association, the cap — set at $71.4 million this year — would be reduced to approximately $69.3M for 2016-17 unless the PA triggers the 5 percent escalator. If the union does exercise the bump, then the cap should increase to approximately $72.8M. The union, which debated the issue at meetings at the end of the week, has voted for the increase all but once.

Wonder how much the Leafs will have tied up in Rookie Bonuses this year?

McDavid's bonus 2.8ish, same for Matthews?
Nylander .8
Marner .8

Will Lupul and Robidas be off the cap?

I think there are several teams in a better position than the Leafs to help the Hawks.
 

Daisy Jane

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THIS is official.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-gm-meetings-salary-cap-draft-lottery/c-279663424

The GM's have been informed. So why threaten a DROP in salary cap IF the NHLPA DOESN'T use the inflator now?

It's absolutely a low blow if it happens.

IMO drama is drama and right now the media is creating drama not fact.


what? like seriously. what?

the GM's are given the numbers with the 5% escrow raise. Daly is saying that the number will drop IF they don't. It's not a threat. it's not a scare tactic. the League gives the GMs both set of numbers and the qualifiers. The League doesn't "benefit' if the PA decides not to (or does) use the escrow inflator. the PA benefits.

the PA benefits because it means UFAs get their money and countless of middlemen/barely-hanging-on men get to keep their jobs. the issue is that pretty much since the Great Lock Out, the PA have been increasing it and their fees are high.

the GM's would want to make it high (so they can continue to go shopping), but they don't want to ditch the cap period because the poor teams won't survive, and something something it's not fair it wont be fun, screw anti-cap people.

but no matter what the GM's want - they can't force the PA into doing anything. where the "threatening" comes form are the other PA's who keep going. "Well we raised it for you, why the hell you don't raise it for us."

There are Three factors here. - and continuously staying that the league is bullying/threatening them is quite categorically wrong.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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Wonder how much the Leafs will have tied up in Rookie Bonuses this year?

McDavid's bonus 2.8ish, same for Matthews?
Nylander .8
Marner .8

Will Lupul and Robidas be off the cap?

I think there are several teams in a better position than the Leafs to help the Hawks.

0 will be tied up

rookie cap overages have heir own category and iirc are added up from the 2017/18 season
 

ULF_55

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the GM's would want to make it high (so they can continue to go shopping), but they don't want to ditch the cap period because the poor teams won't survive, and something something it's not fair it wont be fun, screw anti-cap people.

but no matter what the GM's want - they can't force the PA into doing anything. where the "threatening" comes form are the other PA's who keep going. "Well we raised it for you, why the hell you don't raise it for us."

There are Three factors here. - and continuously staying that the league is bullying/threatening them is quite categorically wrong.

Completely agree, I don't think the League is bullying anyone by stating the facts.

If the HRR doesn't support an amount it doesn't support an amount.

I hope the NHLPA says no to the increase because eventually they have to accept the figures are the truth.

GM's will work with whatever dollar amount they are given, and if a GM has overspent based on the erroneous arguments that were made about the cap continuously increasing (remember the Phaneuf's contract will be good in a few years :shakehead ) then they will have to make adjustments.
 

TLeafsFan

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what? like seriously. what?

the GM's are given the numbers with the 5% escrow raise. Daly is saying that the number will drop IF they don't. It's not a threat. it's not a scare tactic. the League gives the GMs both set of numbers and the qualifiers. The League doesn't "benefit' if the PA decides not to (or does) use the escrow inflator. the PA benefits.

the PA benefits because it means UFAs get their money and countless of middlemen/barely-hanging-on men get to keep their jobs. the issue is that pretty much since the Great Lock Out, the PA have been increasing it and their fees are high.

the GM's would want to make it high (so they can continue to go shopping), but they don't want to ditch the cap period because the poor teams won't survive, and something something it's not fair it wont be fun, screw anti-cap people.

but no matter what the GM's want - they can't force the PA into doing anything. where the "threatening" comes form are the other PA's who keep going. "Well we raised it for you, why the hell you don't raise it for us."

There are Three factors here. - and continuously staying that the league is bullying/threatening them is quite categorically wrong.

Like I said, if these rumours hold true about what was said to the NHLPA about the cap going down (which has yet to be confirmed by the NHLPA), than it is in CONTRADICTION to what Daly has already informed the GM's of. Which is that the cap won't be going up OR down if the PA doesn't use their inflator.

Daly informed the GM's that the cap would remain FLAT.

Anything to the contrary about what may or may not have been stated to the NHLPA is speculation.

Its also petty childishness.

"Well, I already said I won't be lowering the cap, but if they players don't help us out of their pockets, now we'll lower the cap so you GM's can point your finger at them."
 

Daisy Jane

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Like I said, if these rumours hold true about what was said to the NHLPA about the cap going down (which has yet to be confirmed by the NHLPA), than it is in CONTRADICTION to what Daly has already informed the GM's of. Which is that the cap won't be going up OR down if the PA doesn't use their inflator.

No. it's not

Once. again.
The NHLPA + the GMs are told by Bettman & Daly what the Cap estimates to be with HHF and with the Escrow. There wasn't a lot of HHF, the Canadian Dollar is stupidly low (that's a removal of 40% give or take). Which means - it's estimated to have a slight increase OR be flat. They also have to have the guesstimate amount of what it is if the cap drops.


Daly informed the GM's that the cap would remain FLAT.

Anything to the contrary about what may or may not have been stated to the NHLPA is speculation.

Again. no. it. is. not

When it comes to HHF - the NHLPA needs to know those numbers. And they work with the League in that regard. they also need to know what the cap numbers project to be so they can make an informed decision to increase the escrow inflator or not. Where on earth you think what may/may not be stated to the PA is speculation - is honestly beyond me. Generally speaking even when the cap goes high - the PA often increases the escrow so ensure that UFAs get paid (and everyone gets a tiny bump up) because generally speaking - the more money the cap is - the more GMs want to spend. Which is a benefit to the PA.

Why it is a concern now - (and it's been a concern for three years now) is that escrow fees are getting way out of hand. but what the PA does is go "Well, we raised it for you, you raise it for us." This is stated constantly by ALL the former players. (Biron, Ferraro, Noodles/O'Dog, Johnson etc). it's also the reason why it goes up EVERY year (except for one).

Its also petty childishness.

"Well, I already said I won't be lowering the cap, but if they players don't help us out of their pockets, now we'll lower the cap so you GM's can point your finger at them."

One more time.

The League gains nothing by lowering the cap. So it's not petty childishness. It's strictly what the league brings in. Are you honestly thinking that Daly/NHL are going to be "well if you don't raise it, we'll drop it." What's the gain? Like - honestly. what does the NHL gain in doing that, other than a headache? Answer: nothing.

the Cap is dictated by the revenue brought in.
the league doesn't just make up a number and decide to lower it raise it at will, they take in all the factors that impact the revenue/HHF, and obtain that number. Thinking that the League is using this to toy with the NHLPA when they gain 100 percent, absolutely nothing - is silly. Thinking that the League uses this to pit the GMs vs. NHLPA (when the GMs don't gain anything, and don't influence the PA vote) is silly.

these are the facts.
HHF impacts cap.
CDN dollar impacts cap.
HHF is low.
CDN dollar is low
Beancounters come up with the cap with the escrow, and without the escrow, and the projected "fall" (please note, the number 'Fell" last year even with the escrow elevator).
Daly announces this to GMs + PA reps.
PA reps tell members.
Members decide to deploy escrow.
escrow is or is not deployed.


Everything else - is speculation and fantasy, including thinking that the League benefits from a lower cap or a GM vs. PA dispute over "threats" over factual information.
 

TLeafsFan

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No. it's not

Once. again.
The NHLPA + the GMs are told by Bettman & Daly what the Cap estimates to be with HHF and with the Escrow. There wasn't a lot of HHF, the Canadian Dollar is stupidly low (that's a removal of 40% give or take). Which means - it's estimated to have a slight increase OR be flat. They also have to have the guesstimate amount of what it is if the cap drops.




Again. no. it. is. not

When it comes to HHF - the NHLPA needs to know those numbers. And they work with the League in that regard. they also need to know what the cap numbers project to be so they can make an informed decision to increase the escrow inflator or not. Where on earth you think what may/may not be stated to the PA is speculation - is honestly beyond me. Generally speaking even when the cap goes high - the PA often increases the escrow so ensure that UFAs get paid (and everyone gets a tiny bump up) because generally speaking - the more money the cap is - the more GMs want to spend. Which is a benefit to the PA.

Why it is a concern now - (and it's been a concern for three years now) is that escrow fees are getting way out of hand. but what the PA does is go "Well, we raised it for you, you raise it for us." This is stated constantly by ALL the former players. (Biron, Ferraro, Noodles/O'Dog, Johnson etc). it's also the reason why it goes up EVERY year (except for one).



One more time.

The League gains nothing by lowering the cap. So it's not petty childishness. It's strictly what the league brings in. Are you honestly thinking that Daly/NHL are going to be "well if you don't raise it, we'll drop it." What's the gain? Like - honestly. what does the NHL gain in doing that, other than a headache? Answer: nothing.

the Cap is dictated by the revenue brought in.
the league doesn't just make up a number and decide to lower it raise it at will, they take in all the factors that impact the revenue/HHF, and obtain that number. Thinking that the League is using this to toy with the NHLPA when they gain 100 percent, absolutely nothing - is silly. Thinking that the League uses this to pit the GMs vs. NHLPA (when the GMs don't gain anything, and don't influence the PA vote) is silly.

these are the facts.
HHF impacts cap.
CDN dollar impacts cap.
HHF is low.
CDN dollar is low
Beancounters come up with the cap with the escrow, and without the escrow, and the projected "fall" (please note, the number 'Fell" last year even with the escrow elevator).
Daly announces this to GMs + PA reps.
PA reps tell members.
Members decide to deploy escrow.
escrow is or is not deployed.


Everything else - is speculation and fantasy, including thinking that the League benefits from a lower cap or a GM vs. PA dispute over "threats" over factual information.

Actually, Bettman is quite the proponent of league parity. He just boasted about it, no?

The higher the cap, the harder it starts to become on cap floor teams, again.

A lower cap would make league parity easier to achieve.

They will have increased revenue from the World Cup to work towards next season that they didn't have last season to counteract the low Canadian $.

So much for the best interest argument.
 

Morguee

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Jan 22, 2010
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The middle class player is going to disappear. Like Chicago and Pitts teams will continue to pay the big stars and fill in around them with low salaried players. This may actually be very beneficial for the Leafs as this will take a few years to sort through and hopefully the new salary structure will be in place when the big contracts start coming up.
 

Ropesman

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Actually, Bettman is quite the proponent of league parity. He just boasted about it, no?

The higher the cap, the harder it starts to become on cap floor teams, again.

A lower cap would make league parity easier to achieve.

They will have increased revenue from the World Cup to work towards next season that they didn't have last season to counteract the low Canadian $.

So much for the best interest argument.


You realize there is a very small number of teams in the NHL at the Cap floor right?
 

TLeafsFan

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You realize there is a very small number of teams in the NHL at the Cap floor right?

Because its tough to be competitive there. However, I'm sure you've of teams that need to stay within their own "internal cap". But the higher the cap goes, the harder it continues to get for small market teams to reach the cap floor.
 

Daisy Jane

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Actually, Bettman is quite the proponent of league parity. He just boasted about it, no?

The higher the cap, the harder it starts to become on cap floor teams, again.

A lower cap would make league parity easier to achieve.

They will have increased revenue from the World Cup to work towards next season that they didn't have last season to counteract the low Canadian $.

So much for the best interest argument.

.....oh my bloody heck.


there are very little teams that are on the cap-floor. Being at the cap-floor is not a good thing, because it drives up the price you have to pay on the lower-middle class players, which in turn spike up the higher-class players salary. Cap Floor = NO. GOOD. The higher the cap - is the higher the revenue (and strength of Canadian dollar). Having a lower cap, or even insinuating that a lower cap is somehow in the interest of the League is just plain ignorant. Im sorry. I don't like being rude, I generally like discussing things with you - but you are wrong. You are wrong, wrong wrong, wrong, wrong wrong about this. Daly can't not drop the cap on a whim. He can not deploy the cap dropping as a weapon, or as a threat. Having a low cap is not good for business (especially when you are #3 in the big 4 sports world. - heck. some areas you'd be 4th).

The best interest for the league is to have a raising cap every year. it means revenue is coming in. the World Cup is started for many things - including yes, a way to jack up HHF. but if the Canadian dollar is still low then the cap HHF is still going to be paltry at best.

"League Parity" is a colossal joke. it's also being buoyed by the stupid point system the league has going on. Bettman crowing about how the parity in the league is - is one thing. thinking that the League then will want a low cap is completely wrong. what the League has set up is the "mirage" of parity. loser points and new playoff formats make it look like crappy teams have a chance. every year. for the most part - nothing has really change. the "Rich" teams are still rich. the budget teams still have a budget, the teams that need revenue sharing, still have revenue sharing. the League doesn't pull a number out of its behind and go "okay this is where the cap is going to be." to benefit the cap floor teams. It can not do that.


but really you obviously want to see conspiracy theories where there are clearly are none, and so i'm not discussing this with you anymore.
 

TLeafsFan

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May 16, 2014
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.....oh my bloody heck.


there are very little teams that are on the cap-floor. Being at the cap-floor is not a good thing, because it drives up the price you have to pay on the lower-middle class players, which in turn spike up the higher-class players salary. Cap Floor = NO. GOOD. The higher the cap - is the higher the revenue (and strength of Canadian dollar). Having a lower cap, or even insinuating that a lower cap is somehow in the interest of the League is just plain ignorant. Im sorry. I don't like being rude, I generally like discussing things with you - but you are wrong. You are wrong, wrong wrong, wrong, wrong wrong about this. Daly can't not drop the cap on a whim. He can not deploy the cap dropping as a weapon, or as a threat. Having a low cap is not good for business (especially when you are #3 in the big 4 sports world. - heck. some areas you'd be 4th).

The best interest for the league is to have a raising cap every year. it means revenue is coming in. the World Cup is started for many things - including yes, a way to jack up HHF. but if the Canadian dollar is still low then the cap HHF is still going to be paltry at best.

"League Parity" is a colossal joke. it's also being buoyed by the stupid point system the league has going on. Bettman crowing about how the parity in the league is - is one thing. thinking that the League then will want a low cap is completely wrong. what the League has set up is the "mirage" of parity. loser points and new playoff formats make it look like crappy teams have a chance. every year. for the most part - nothing has really change. the "Rich" teams are still rich. the budget teams still have a budget, the teams that need revenue sharing, still have revenue sharing. the League doesn't pull a number out of its behind and go "okay this is where the cap is going to be." to benefit the cap floor teams. It can not do that.


but really you obviously want to see conspiracy theories where there are clearly are none, and so i'm not discussing this with you anymore.

Just common sense Daisy. NHL is basically insisting NHLPA pony up.

There is no LOGICAL reason for the NHL to LOWER the cap with the coming revenue feeding the CENTENNIAL season and offsetting the lowered US dollar value of Canada's money.

Teams with a low internal cap ceiling don't exist? Come on now.

Its a greed grab attempt for money from the players if the speculation proves true (which it still hasn't) and its a pretty obvious one at that.
 

Ropesman

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May 1, 2016
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Because its tough to be competitive there. However, I'm sure you've of teams that need to stay within their own "internal cap". But the higher the cap goes, the harder it continues to get for small market teams to reach the cap floor.

So let me get this straight, you think that lowering the cap would be a good thing for the state of the NHL? So taking money out of the players pockets and filling the owners pockets would be a good thing? Because it would create parity you say. I disagree.

So long as there is a minimum cap and a maximum cap there will not be a level playing field. Some teams will spend less for which ever reason and others will send more. If the cap were to shrink contract values would also shrink over time, making everything proportional. The teams spending to the cap would still hold an advantage over teams spending to the floor.

Also the higher the cap goes the more money big market teams are then sharing with lower market teams, its all proportional this is the point of the salary cap.
 
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Daisy Jane

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Just common sense Daisy. NHL is basically insisting NHLPA pony up.

There is no LOGICAL reason for the NHL to LOWER the cap with the coming revenue feeding the CENTENNIAL season and offsetting the lowered US dollar value of Canada's money.

Teams with a low internal cap ceiling don't exist? Come on now.

Its a greed grab attempt for money from the players if the speculation proves true (which it still hasn't) and its a pretty obvious one at that.

you do realise the cap is set based on the previous years numbers - not the projected numbers coming in?

please tell me where i said that teams with a low internal cap ceiling don't exist. hello. there's one down not even 4.5 hrs away from us.

like i said. i firmly believe you are wrong in this, and i've explained you several times now and I'm not doing it again. YMMV.
 

ULF_55

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People do understand the Cap is a formula not an arbitrary figure set out by the League?

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/2013_nhl_salary_cap.htm

As of 2014-15, the salary cap will be set every year according to projected NHL revenues for the coming season, based on a 50/50 revenue split between players and teams.

projected salary range.
- The salary cap is set at 15 percent above the midpoint. The salary floor is 15 percent below the midpoint.
- The range between salary cap and floor cannot fall below $16 million or rise above $28 million
 

Daisy Jane

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TLeafsFan

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oh then I am wrong - it is based on projected of the upcoming - not what they grossed from the previous, so then i stand corrected. so basically they feel that with World Cup + 4 outdoor games (to date) they're still not gonna earn that much HHF.

In their Centennial season to boot.

No need to apologize. It was a fun debate.
 

TLeafsFan

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So let me get this straight, you think that lowering the cap would be a good thing for the state of the NHL? So taking money out of the players pockets and filling the owners pockets would be a good thing? Because it would create parity you say. I disagree.

So long as there is a minimum cap and a maximum cap there will not be a level playing field. Some teams will spend less for which ever reason and others will send more. If the cap were to shrink contract values would also shrink over time, making everything proportional. The teams spending to the cap would still hold an advantage over teams spending to the floor.

Also the higher the cap goes the more money big market teams are then sharing with lower market teams, its all proportional this is the point of the salary cap.

No I don't think lowering the cap would be good. When did I ever say that?

Thought I made my opinion of Bettman and Daly and the NHL's tactics pretty clear.
 

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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If you have time, download the CBA and look at what counts as Hockey Related Revenue.

Quite a series of agreed upon elements and very specific ones at that.

Accountants are involved.

If the cap is flat, it's because the designed formula for HRR spits out that number. Revenue for the NHL is down from projections made in March.
 

ChrisCall

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Jun 25, 2012
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The middle class player is going to disappear. Like Chicago and Pitts teams will continue to pay the big stars and fill in around them with low salaried players. This may actually be very beneficial for the Leafs as this will take a few years to sort through and hopefully the new salary structure will be in place when the big contracts start coming up.

After reading through this whole topic ... This.

Also, with regards to rookie bonus numbers counting against next years cap, i would probably lean towards letting that happen as the junk contracts come off the books to offset it.
 

Confucius

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Feb 8, 2009
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Sad thing is there are teams that can take on a Datsyuk contract to help reach the cap floor. So in essence they are about 6 million below the floor, yet they still ice a team better than ours :facepalm:
 

leafsfuture

Registered User
Mar 30, 2008
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Sad thing is there are teams that can take on a Datsyuk contract to help reach the cap floor. So in essence they are about 6 million below the floor, yet they still ice a team better than ours :facepalm:

I could care less.

Laich's contract was purposely brought on because we had cap space, and it earned us Carrick who is a real player and a 2nd.

We also brought in Greening and Michalek who are both pending UFAs. All 3 are gone at the end of the year.

Robidas will also be free from Robidas Island at the end of the year.

Lupul is really the only thing that will hurt us
 

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