Crosby vs Kucherov: whos IQ is better?
- Thread starter Kshahdoo
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Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Please create a video showing all 97 goals and how he sucked and caused those goals to go in his net
- Feb 10, 2010
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But what are you gleaning from that stat? That he sucks defensively then? That stat doesn’t really tell that story. Lidstrom, for example, is one of the all-time leaders in goals against…he’s not bad defensively. Kopitar is #3 or 4 active all-time leader in this category, he doesn’t suck defensively.
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You would have to be counting penalty killing minutes - which Crosby barely does - in order to put Kopitar or Lidstrom on Crosby's level of defense.
That isn't a legitimate way of looking at things.
Really? When Crosby scored 120 points there were 7 100+ point players, this season there are 9 such players, the difference isn't that big.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
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I don't think so.
The Crosby crowd started claiming - without evidence - that Crosby suddenly became great at defense (not coincidentally) right when he was no longer a contender for the Art Ross.
At that same time, Crosby's penalty killing went to practically zero and his offensive zone starts increased. In other words, Crosby's defensive responsibilities went down right when the pro-Crosby media was claiming they went up.
His on-ice goals against were never great. He's had a few decent seasons - nowhere near Bergeron/Datsyuk type seasons, but still decent. Then again, so has Ovechkin - except Ovechkin doesn't have an army of media people willing to make a baseless argument - at least not English speakers.
In reality, Crosby's on-ice goals against have generally been quite close to Ovechkin's, and nowhere near the actual great defensive players. And this is why the Crosby crowd almost never brings any actual defensive statistics. They just say it, parrot it, rinse and repeat.
Sidney Crosby was on the ice for a whopping 93 non-power play goals against this season. Do you not know that that is a lot?
I get that, but I'm not trying to use stats to justify anything. You are on a crusade to convince everyone that Crosby is one of the worst defensive players in the league and anyone that thinks otherwise is just brainwashed by the Cdn media who has been trying to prop him up as Selke candidate.
Personally, I think he's a decent defensive player, responsible both ends of the ice. In my mind, he's not a Selke candidate, but he's far better than a lot of guys in the league. I've seen games this year where he strings a few shifts together and the announcer (of the other team) will comment "that's why I have Crosby as a Selke threat this year". There will be isolated moments and combined with his faceoff stats which lead the league by a ton that people will grab hold of. Look, I don't share those views and when I watch those games and those plays, I agree....Crosby was playing like a monster, both ends of the ice, etc.....but that doesn't mean he's doing that day in and day out better than a lot of other guys.
What I do have no issue saying based on watching them both, is that Crosby is a more responsible defensive player than Kucherov, that shouldn't be controversial.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Your Don Quichotte quest to belittle Sidney Crosby is impressive, I must give you that.
The way you cherry-pick stats to build a flawed argument is equally impressive.
Nobody claimed that Crosby was in the Bergeron/Datsyuk class of defensive players. If he was, he would likely have won multiple Selkes.
What people claim, and I do not think it is an outlandish claim, is that Crosby is good defensively and, perhaps, the most complete player in the league. Goals against depend on so much more than just the individual player's defensive acumen. Context matters.
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Yes they did.
Crosby has topped Couturier, Datsyuk, Barkov, and even Bergeron on many Selke ballots over the past 8 years or so. -That is not a defensible outcome IMO.
I'm not making some sort of straw man here.
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Trade
Guentzel is ELITE
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Seems like people ITT think hockey IQ only exists on the offensive side of the puck.
Using point totals as a measuring stick for overall hockey IQ is stupid as hell.
Using point totals as a measuring stick for overall hockey IQ is stupid as hell.
GrumpyKoala
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2020
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I wouldn't trust either calculating the load bearing of my house, but I think they can easily math out the tipping gratuity when dinning out.
AgeIess
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Crosby is like Einstein and Kucherov is like Corky Thatcher in comparison.
Well Datsyuk hasn't played in the last 8 years so I'd hope so
Mr Kot
Registered User
- Jan 15, 2022
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Very comparable players skillwise, Crosby is very overrated on these boards. He got a great career no doubt and should be held in high regard due to that but in terms of actual on ice production and impact he is a second tier all time great(not much, if anything, separating him from players like Kucherov, Yzerman, Trottier etc in that regard).
People ranking him 5th of all time etc are out to lunch in my mind.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Yeah if you bury your head in the sand and ignore all hrs done, I guess he's comparable to them lmao
On season per season basis he is. He just did it more often than most. Peak wise, not all that special.
It's not like we are comparing him with some nobody here, Kucherov is a 2 time Art Ross winner in a league with McDavid in it and a top tier playoff producer in addition to that. To say there is nothing he does better or even close to as good as Crosby is delusional.
