Post-Game Talk: Coyotes at Rangers - October 23

[JHS]

If anything, the lingering criticism is rooted in positivity. We see that this team is great, and this one jackass wants to ruin it with two or three of his favorite players.

This is literally absurd. You honestly think AV is selecting a strategy to sabotage his own team?!?!?

NHL coaches routinely play players they can trust. They are all win now coaches. Wins keep them around. Wins make the players happy. Wins make the fans happy. Wins make the owners happy. Wins make future employers happy. You get the point.

I don't get the mentality of, "let's play younger players to see what they have." The NHL coaching staff is around the team constantly and watching them in practice and their attitude and all. We just watch the games and, for the most part, largely over estimate things like "potential" or "upside" and dramatically criticize veterans for "being too slow" or "lacking drive." What this mindset does in fans is it makes you long for the unknown( to you but not the coach) often just for the sake of "well he may be better." The truth is, the younger rookie is rarely better than the experienced veteran, unless he is truly a remarkable talent.

I'm fine with AV's lineup. The Rangers could be undefeated, as AV correctly said recently, as they have outplayed every team they have faced so far!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is literally absurd. You honestly think AV is selecting a strategy to sabotage his own team?!?!?

NHL coaches routinely play players they can trust. They are all win now coaches. Wins keep them around. Wins make the players happy. Wins make the fans happy. Wins make the owners happy. Wins make future employers happy. You get the point.

I don't get the mentality of, "let's play younger players to see what they have." The NHL coaching staff is around the team constantly and watching them in practice and their attitude and all. We just watch the games and, for the most part, largely over estimate things like "potential" or "upside" and dramatically criticize veterans for "being too slow" or "lacking drive." What this mindset does in fans is it makes you long for the unknown( to you but not the coach) often just for the sake of "well he may be better." The truth is, the younger rookie is rarely better than the experienced veteran, unless he is truly a remarkable talent.

I'm fine with AV's lineup. The Rangers could be undefeated, as AV correctly said recently, as they have outplayed every team they have faced so far!

Except it's not based on the unknown. Clendening has outplayed Girardi. This is a complete strawman.

 

[JHS]

Except it's not based on the unknown. Clendening has outplayed Girardi. This is a complete strawman.

But Girardi is the proven commodity. You know what you are getting from him. I would challenge any of you to actual relate to the spot AV is in. Girardi is a celebrated New York Ranger who is a great defensive defenseman who, while being used less minutes this year, remains a highly serviceable defnesman. Coaches can't just toss all that out the window, walk into a locker room, and have the trust of his team. Who knows, maybe Clendening is not working hard in practice, maybe his puck choices are not in line with the coaches ideas. Maybe Clendening just has not earned it in AV's mind yet. You can't just yank Girardi out of the lineup unless someone takes his spot from him or the season is on the line!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

But Girardi is the proven commodity. You know what you are getting from him. I would challenge any of you to actual relate to the spot AV is in. Girardi is a celebrated New York Ranger who is a great defensive defenseman who, while being used less minutes this year, remains a highly serviceable defnesman. Coaches can't just toss all that out the window, walk into a locker room, and have the trust of his team. Who knows, maybe Clendening is not working hard in practice, maybe his puck choices are not in line with the coaches ideas. Maybe Clendening just has not earned it in AV's mind yet. You can't just yank Girardi out of the lineup unless someone takes his spot from him or the season is on the line!

He's not a great defensive defenseman. This isn't 11-12. Loyalty to the detriment of the team is the coach not performing his job. Yes you can yank the job from him for a better player. AV's job is to put his best team out there. Will it hurt Girardi's feelings? Who cares. People in corporate America earning a fraction of what he's earning get fired all the time.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

But Girardi is the proven commodity. You know what you are getting from him.

Yes, and it isn't very good.

I would challenge any of you to actual relate to the spot AV is in. Girardi is a celebrated New York Ranger who is a great defensive defenseman who, while being used less minutes this year, remains a highly serviceable defnesman.

Is? More like was. He was never great though. He still played almost 20 minutes last night, thats way too much.

Coaches can't just toss all that out the window, walk into a locker room, and have the trust of his team. Who knows, maybe Clendening is not working hard in practice, maybe his puck choices are not in line with the coaches ideas. Maybe Clendening just has not earned it in AV's mind yet. You can't just yank Girardi out of the lineup unless someone takes his spot from him or the season is on the line!

If his puck choices are not in line with the coach's ideas and Girardi and Staal's are, then he needs to be fired for that alone.

 

[JHS]

He's not a great defensive defenseman. This isn't 11-12. Loyalty to the detriment of the team is the coach not performing his job. Yes you can yank the job from him for a better player. AV's job is to put his best team out there. Will it hurt Girardi's feelings? Who cares. People in corporate America earning a fraction of what he's earning get fired all the time.

These are professional athletes who's entire lives are built around the belief that you earn your way into the lineup and you earn your way out of the lineup. You rock that belief and the entire team does not know how the coach goes about making roster spots. If the team does not know how coaches decide who plays, uncertainty creeps in, players become unsure what is valued and a lack of confidence begins. I don't think that's what the Rangers need right now!

Girardi has earned his way into the lineup, Clendening has not. Clendening has played what 5 games as a New York Ranger and we are already promoting him past a steady( ok great was a bit much) defnesman. I'll reference my post earlier where I said, "overrate potential." No one here can honestly say that Celndening's sample size is large enough to show he's earned a spot over Girardi.

Look the truth is, I'm not a Girardi fan. I agree the Rangers could get better than him. I'm just simply saying that coaches who yank players from lineups based on "hunches" or who sell veterans down the river, don't last very long in the NHL. Girardi is just returning from an injury. Give the guy some time. If he's still this way in a few weeks than the conversation has merit. It's not like he's costing the team games!

 

[kovazub94]

Thinking that AV would purposely undermine NYR success by mis-constructing his combinations is ridiculous. He, like most established NHL coaches, will give more of a benefit of a doubt to established NHL players. This summer Gorton brought in Holden and Clendening. The relevant difference w/r/t why one is playing and the other one not is experience. It's not a style of play (or an idea that AV doesn't trust rookies) since we have Skjei playing while McI is (and Clendening) not.

 

[kovazub94]

fair enough and until the bolded you were making an effective counter. i enjoy your posts as they are usually well reasoned and thoughtful.

there really isnt something to be done about it now. from the sounds of it, nash has been available since draft day and there weren't any offers other than low ball bottom feeder types. so, given that, its likely he's staying.

and I've said that. he's here by default not because he's part of the gorton on the fly retool to get younger (not nash) and faster (not nash) and cheaper (not nash). he's here well.... because he's not moveable.

and so that means the only thing we can do is play him and hope he does well and move him when we get the first reasonable offer.

until then, i hope his production is equal to his cost. as much as you hate to read that, it is reality. imo, vesey and buchnevich will out produce rick nash by alot and for a fraction of the cost.

its not like we couldn't do something else with that 8 mil per.

Would you believe me if I said that the posters you enjoy reading would, likely universally, appreciate you not having Nash a topic of your posts. We all know your position and we do not disagree it's just that the volume is reaching a pollution level (similar to other posts with an agenda against a particular player).

Team is showing a significant progress (and success) compared to how last season ended. They just had a win on the second of a btb games in what should be a definition of a let down game after an emotional, difficult game again against a rival (and a cream of NHL) just a night earlier. Nash played well, Girardi was on a 3rd pair and allowed minimum high risk opportunities while scoring (!!!) a GWG. At least for one game there's no reason to be aggravated and spreading it here.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

It must be killing all the Girardi haters that he played tonight AND scored the game winner.

Lol this comment is so stupid. You're not stupid. I'm sure you're very smart. But this comment. Just plain stupid

 

[SnowblindNYR]

These are professional athletes who's entire lives are built around the belief that you earn your way into the lineup and you earn your way out of the lineup. You rock that belief and the entire team does not know how the coach goes about making roster spots. If the team does not know how coaches decide who plays, uncertainty creeps in, players become unsure what is valued and a lack of confidence begins. I don't think that's what the Rangers need right now!

Girardi has earned his way into the lineup, Clendening has not. Clendening has played what 5 games as a New York Ranger and we are already promoting him past a steady( ok great was a bit much) defnesman. I'll reference my post earlier where I said, "overrate potential." No one here can honestly say that Celndening's sample size is large enough to show he's earned a spot over Girardi.

Look the truth is, I'm not a Girardi fan. I agree the Rangers could get better than him. I'm just simply saying that coaches who yank players from lineups based on "hunches" or who sell veterans down the river, don't last very long in the NHL. Girardi is just returning from an injury. Give the guy some time. If he's still this way in a few weeks than the conversation has merit. It's not like he's costing the team games!

First of all, these are not kindergarteners, they'll understand. This is a job.

Second, Girardi more than earned his way out of the lineup since last year.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

This narrative is getting old. They've scored 22 goals this season, the Capitals and Penguins each have 13.

Also I checked their shooting % during the game when people were saying they can't finish. 8th in the NHL at 11.73%. 2nd in the NHL last year, 6th the year they won the PT.

What constitutes a slam dunk? Breakaways and wide open nets? Because your stats wouldn't address that. Also it's a small sample size either way.

 

[JHS]

First of all, these are not kindergarteners, they'll understand. This is a job.

Second, Girardi more than earned his way out of the lineup since last year.

What would they understand? The coach has to rationally explain things to Girardi and the media. He has no rational way to do that now other than "hunches" or "potential."

 

[Machinehead]

This is literally absurd. You honestly think AV is selecting a strategy to sabotage his own team?!?!?

NHL coaches routinely play players they can trust. They are all win now coaches. Wins keep them around. Wins make the players happy. Wins make the fans happy. Wins make the owners happy. Wins make future employers happy. You get the point.

I don't get the mentality of, "let's play younger players to see what they have." The NHL coaching staff is around the team constantly and watching them in practice and their attitude and all. We just watch the games and, for the most part, largely over estimate things like "potential" or "upside" and dramatically criticize veterans for "being too slow" or "lacking drive." What this mindset does in fans is it makes you long for the unknown( to you but not the coach) often just for the sake of "well he may be better." The truth is, the younger rookie is rarely better than the experienced veteran, unless he is truly a remarkable talent.

I'm fine with AV's lineup. The Rangers could be undefeated, as AV correctly said recently, as they have outplayed every team they have faced so far!

I didn't say anything about some bizarre AV conspiracy theory. He's just a moron.

This has nothing to do with potential. Clendening is a better player than Girardi and Holden. He was a better player than them yesterday.

 

[NickyFotiu]

As much as people like to bash Girardi his game last night was better than Holden and Dylan played this season. Thats coming from one of Dylans biggest fans. Its just one game though. I think all 3 should get a fair chance which would mean Holden on the left side in some games and Dylan actually playing in games.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What constitutes a slam dunk? Breakaways and wide open nets? Because your stats wouldn't address that. Also it's a small sample size either way.

We were 2nd last year and improved our personnel...

 

[aufheben]

I swear people don't want this offense to score goals sometimes. They score a lot. What's wrong with that?

No they don't have someone like Kane or Tarasenko but their goals scored and shooting % have both been top-10 for the last 2 seasons, and I think a 3rd consecutive year is a safe bet.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What would they understand? The coach has to rationally explain things to Girardi and the media. He has no rational way to do that now other than "hunches" or "potential."

Yes there is. Clendening has played better than Girardi. He's a better player. Honestly the idea that the players will pout and cry if that happens like it's kindergarten is absolutely asinine.

 

[Levitate]

I swear people don't want this offense to score goals sometimes. They score a lot. What's wrong with that?

No they don't have someone like Kane or Tarasenko but their goals scored and shooting % have both been top-10 for the last 2 seasons, and I think a 3rd consecutive year is a safe bet.

Yeah that's pretty much it, without a superstar people get antsy. I think a superstar goal scorer is good to have to help provide an edge in playoff games but without easily acquiring one, the Rangers have done the next best thing

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I swear people don't want this offense to score goals sometimes. They score a lot. What's wrong with that?

No they don't have someone like Kane or Tarasenko but their goals scored and shooting % have both been top-10 for the last 2 seasons, and I think a 3rd consecutive year is a safe bet.

I think its more about a certain someone who doesn't want anyone to forget that.

If this team did what he wanted them to do, they may have Tarasenko, but the rest of the roster would be filled with guys like Enver Lisin, Joel Armia, Alexander Khoklachev and "Jet" Morin.

 

[aufheben]

Yeah that's pretty much it, without a superstar people get antsy. I think a superstar goal scorer is good to have to help provide an edge in playoff games but without easily acquiring one, the Rangers have done the next best thing

I guess I just take things too literally.

Over the last 170 games the Rangers have averaged 2.92 goals/60. Only Dallas has more. 3 goals a game on average is a crazy amount these days. NYR have scored more 5-on-5 goals in that span than anyone.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

I think its more about a certain someone who doesn't want anyone to forget that.

If this team did what he wanted them to do, they may have Tarasenko, but the rest of the roster would be filled with guys like Enver Lisin, Joel Armia, Alexander Khoklachev and "Jet" Morin.

Armia is actually a good player, and I wanted him over Miller in his draft year myself was hoping Winnipeg would throw him into a Trouba deal.

 

[aufheben]

Also Pirri what gives? 18 shots attempted, 6 on goal.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Also Pirri what gives? 18 shots attempted, 6 on goal.

My view:
Good shot
Good nose for the net.
Confident in his scoring ability.
Below NHL average first 3 steps.
Below NHL average pivots.
Needs some room to be effective.
Good at finding open space without puck but has not shown much ability to create his own open space with puck.

 

[JHS]

Yes there is. Clendening has played better than Girardi. He's a better player. Honestly the idea that the players will pout and cry if that happens like it's kindergarten is absolutely asinine.

Never said they would pout and cry. I attempted to explain my stance on random roster moves and not trusting veterans in a previous post and why I don't think that would be a sound decision by the coach right now. Players respect a coach who has clear expectations and respects contributions to the team. It's as simple as that. Even in whatever line of work any of us is in-- a boss is respected for making it clear what they expect. AV can't just go into a locker room and say that a player is promoted Ito the starting lineup based on anything but real things. It is analogous to someone getting promoted because the boss likes them more but has never proven anything. It leads to hostility and bitterness and distrust amoungst all involved.

While the NHL is not the same as corporate America, these are still people's jobs and their financial stability( even if it's millions of bucks.) No one should just mess with that and no player would respect or trust a coach that went around doing that.

Believe me, AV has been a leader of men for nearly 2 decades in the NHL-- he gets what it takes to keep an NHL roster in line and keep the players respect!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Never said they would pout and cry. I attempted to explain my stance on random roster moves and not trusting veterans in a previous post and why I don't think that would be a sound decision by the coach right now. Players respect a coach who has clear expectations and respects contributions to the team. It's as simple as that. Even in whatever line of work any of us is in-- a boss is respected for making it clear what they expect. AV can't just go into a locker room and say that a player is promoted Ito the starting lineup based on anything but real things. It is analogous to someone getting promoted because the boss likes them more but has never proven anything. It leads to hostility and bitterness and distrust amoungst all involved.

While the NHL is not the same as corporate America, these are still people's jobs and their financial stability( even if it's millions of bucks.) No one should just mess with that and no player would respect or trust a coach that went around doing that.

Believe me, AV has been a leader of men for nearly 2 decades in the NHL-- he gets what it takes to keep an NHL roster in line and keep the players respect!

Except Girardi hasn't been good lately. There's a reason to not play a guy that's not good. You want AV to be loyal to a Girardi that we haven't seen since like 13-14 at the earliest. He hasn't earned **** lately.