OT: Covid-19 (Part 54) New Year, New Shots

[Lafleurs Guy]

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[Lafleurs Guy]

Though I do think if you attached financial incentives (tax breaks?) to good physical health you could probably push health in a good direction. Kind of like the insurance drop for good drivers.

I'm pretty sure you're going to pay more for insurance if you're a smoker, overweight etc...

Again, nobody would deny that many of us should lose weight or cut bad habits. But stop using it to dodge the main points.

1. Obesity is not transmissible. (Please don't post the silly links on how hanging out with obese people makes you eat more, it's not the same thing.)

2. All of our health conditions combined didn't overwhelm hospitals the way covid has. And the bulk of the patients are unvaccinated.

3. It's a very easy remedy to take a shot.

 

[Miller Time]

I believe in 2020 (297M) or 90% of the population had employer sponsored healthcare, that’s a lot more than a “small few”


For profit system enables innovation, which is why - No country in the world can match the medical innovation in the US. No one


You get what you pay for in life - free is well and good, but don’t expect quality service or innovation

Keep telling yourself that

Also might want to broaden your horizons about medical innovation...

Atul Gawande is a good place to start.


90% eh... funny that you don't see how that exacerbates just how poor the US system is lol

But, of course, that stat is grossly wrong:

"about 156,199,800 Americans, or around 49 percent of the country’s total population, receive employer-sponsored health insurance (also called group health insurance)."

& of course:
"In the first half of 2020, 43.4 percent of U.S. adults ages 19 to 64 were inadequately insured. This is statistically unchanged from the last time we fielded the survey in 2018"


Living in a bubble, it's easy to pretend that one's own experience is the norm... maybe it's time to break out of that echo chamber

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Question to the anti vax:

I hear a lot of confidence in regards to the "what if I'm healthy and don't want the vaccine" stuff.

Confidence is good but if government said if you go to hospital due for covid related treatments you foot the bill if unvaccinated...will you keep that confidence? You're so sure so if government applied this to you and whoever else doesn't get vaccinated(without exemption) are you okay with that?

Remember, if your parents, cousins, siblings, friends, etc... are also unvaccinated it applies to them too.

 

[Stoneburg]

I was talking to my neighbor in NY state about medical coverage in the U.S. and said, "isn't it true that if you have a decent job you have medical coverage in the U.S.?" To which he replied "Let me show you my bill from my last Doctors visit". He has a M. Sc. and was a psychologist for the County, later promoted to Director. There is coverage, and then there is coverage, where almost everything is free.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I was talking to my neighbor in NY state about medical coverage in the U.S. and said, "isn't it true that if you have a decent job you have medical coverage in the U.S.?" To which he replied "Let me show you my bill from my last Doctors visit". He has a M. Sc. and was a psychologist for the County, later promoted to Director. There is coverage, and then there is coverage, where almost everything is free.

How much was his bill?

 

[Miller Time]

I was talking to my neighbor in NY state about medical coverage in the U.S. and said, "isn't it true that if you have a decent job you have medical coverage in the U.S.?" To which he replied "Let me show you my bill from my last Doctors visit". He has a M. Sc. and was a psychologist for the County, later promoted to Director. There is coverage, and then there is coverage, where almost everything is free.

Yup...

When simple stitches & a tetanus shot run 6,500$, even with a "decent" us insurance plan, your still out of pocket 1000s.


The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, a cost that led his wife to avoid the ER

Love that this is from TN, don't you @salbutera

Would hate to catch Covid at a preds game then spend the next few years paying off the medical bills...

 

[salbutera]

Keep telling yourself that

Also might want to broaden your horizons about medical innovation...

Atul Gawande is a good place to start.


90% eh... funny that you don't see how that exacerbates just how poor the US system is lol

But, of course, that stat is grossly wrong:

"about 156,199,800 Americans, or around 49 percent of the country’s total population, receive employer-sponsored health insurance (also called group health insurance)."

& of course:
"In the first half of 2020, 43.4 percent of U.S. adults ages 19 to 64 were inadequately insured. This is statistically unchanged from the last time we fielded the survey in 2018"


Living in a bubble, it's easy to pretend that one's own experience is the norm... maybe it's time to break out of that echo chamber

Not a bubble, vaccinations have been free and available to anyone who’s wanted them for close to 1-year, booster shot for close to 6-months now, my parents still waiting in that wonderful free healthcare for all system.

How are the surgeries coming along in that free system over the last nearly 24-months? How about LL mentioning his father would no longer be getting CLSC support?

 

[salbutera]

Yup...

When simple stitches & a tetanus shot run 6,500$, even with a "decent" us insurance plan, your still out of pocket 1000s.


The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, a cost that led his wife to avoid the ER

Love that this is from TN, don't you @salbutera

Would hate to catch Covid at a preds game then spend the next few years paying off the medical bills...

There’s something called out of pocket max, in the order of $12K - $15K depending on size of family. Once that threshold is hit all is free thereafter.

But yes, healthcare costs $, good service costs end of story. Does that mean everyone can afford it? Absolutely not, but that’s a different philosophical discussion.

 

[Licou]

For context: one of the "secrets" of the US health care system is just straight up raw money.

The US spends significantly more public money per capita than any country the world.

Public and private per capita health expenditure by country 2019 | Statista

I am not saying this is bad thing of course, the US is rich and I wouldn't expect such a rich country to cheap out on health expenses.

I will say one thing though. With such immense resources, one has too wonder how much of it is either wasted or applied to provide quality care to fortunate individuals (or both). The fact that millions cannot afford care without breaking bank, sometime even when insured is simply incomprehensible.

Last thing: I am aware that the Canadian health care system is problematic beyond the amount of money it spends.

 

[dinodebino]

There is no perfect system. Comparables are impossible. Americans generally think they live in the most advanced country. Let them be. They are insulars. So it suits their beliefs. All is good. I learned to not argue with them about comparables. When you don’t travel much outside the boundaries of your country, you just don’t see it.

If they set foot in an advanced Asian country, most of them would be flabbergasted. Or go visit the nordic countries, they would be floored.

 

[Lshap]

If I have to choose between going after sugary products and corporations versus ramping up extortion and social/economic exclusion tactics to force drugs into people who don't want them I think it's pretty clear which of the two is a more ethical approach to health.

You might be right about the Oreo riots of 2022 though lol. Damned Anti-Veggers.

1) Vaccines aren't drugs in the way you're imagining it. The active ingredient is a biological culture, the attenuated part of whatever virus you want to generate an immune response to. That's all a vaccine does – it generates a natural immune response, just like you had the virus but without the health risks. The immune response to a vaccine is not synthetic, it's natural, controlled and much safer (historically, it's been the difference between life and death).

2) Unlike traditional drugs, vaccines aren't treatments or chemical 'corrections' to an existing health issue, they simply prevent the issue before it happens.

3) If you don't like ingesting synthesized chemicals into your body, don't take vitamins, and heart or blood-pressure medication. For that matter, don't smoke weed or drink Diet Coke.

4) Promoting healthy lifestyles is hardly a new idea. You imagine governments working exclusively on vaccine rollouts and ignoring everything else, but that's not true. Other initiatives go on, even during Covid. There are multiple programs and services in place promoting health. However, right now the government's most immediate health priority is to get the population vaccinated against a virus that's caused a global pandemic.

During a hurricane, governments organize evacuations. They don't debate building codes.

And really, do you need another government poster reminding you to eat less chips and exercise?

 

[Treb]

@Treb a buddy of mine wrote this in our group chat: “People do not understand how the excess of spike proteins from these Vaxx are bad”. Do you know what the hell he is talking about?

Probably something about the spike being toxic, which is based on a misinterpretation of an article.

 

[MXD]

Getting Moderned in 50 minutes. It was really quick to get an appointment in Outaouais (I could've gotten one as soon as monday)

 

[Andy]

Probably something about the spike being toxic, which is based on a misinterpretation of an article.

Also, if they were toxic, wouldn't we already be seeing swaths of people sick considering like a billion people have taken the vaccine?

 

[Lshap]

The most honest reason for vaccine resistance is fear of needles. A needle going into your arm is perceived as invasive. It has less to do with the contents of the injection than it does the physical injection itself. Taking the exact same ingredients orally would feel more natural and safer somehow. Place the same contents of the Covid vaccine into a gummy and nobody would be screaming about side effects and make-believe risks.

We have a primal fear of something going into our bodies via a different route than our mouths. Anti-vaxers take vitamins and meds every day, yet can't grasp the reality behind a simple and safe vaccine, all because it enters their body through an injection.

 

[Lshap]

Getting Moderned in 50 minutes. It was really quick to get an appointment in Outaouais (I could've gotten one as soon as monday)

I got my Moderna booster yesterday, to complement my two Pfizers. No wait, no issues.

I've shown up early each time and never had to wait.

 

[waffledave]

There is no perfect system. Comparables are impossible. Americans generally think they live in the most advanced country. Let them be. They are insulars. So it suits their beliefs. All is good. I learned to not argue with them about comparables. When you don’t travel much outside the boundaries of your country, you just don’t see it.

If they set foot in an advanced Asian country, most of them would be flabbergasted. Or go visit the nordic countries, they would be floored.

I showed an American friend pictures of Beijing and Hong Kong after they insisted China was a rural 3rd world country. He accused me of showing fake images from a science fiction movie.

 

[waffledave]

Probably something about the spike being toxic, which is based on a misinterpretation of an article.

"Spike protein injections!!!" Such a anti-science buzz term for idiots. I wonder what YouTuber came up with that one.

 

[Miller Time]

There’s something called out of pocket max, in the order of $12K - $15K depending on size of family. Once that threshold is hit all is free thereafter.

But yes, healthcare costs $, good service costs end of story. Does that mean everyone can afford it? Absolutely not, but that’s a different philosophical discussion.

Wrong. Again, you'd need to step outside of your bubble a bit more.

Nothing philosophical about the realities of how poor the cost structure of the US health system is.

 

[Miller Time]

Not a bubble, vaccinations have been free and available to anyone who’s wanted them for close to 1-year, booster shot for close to 6-months now, my parents still waiting in that wonderful free healthcare for all system.

How are the surgeries coming along in that free system over the last nearly 24-months? How about LL mentioning his father would no longer be getting CLSC support?

Shifting the goal post only makes your take worse, not better.

But, since you mention it...

"In this cohort study of more than 13 million US surgical procedures from January 1, 2019, through January 30, 2021, there was a 48.0% decrease in total surgical procedure volume immediately after the March 2020 recommendation to cancel elective surgical procedures."

Guess the surgeries aren't coming along so well in that ludicrously expensive & underperforming system you cherish so much

It's very simple really...

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2019: Higher Spending, Worse Outcomes?

• The U.S. spends more on health care as a share of the economy — nearly twice as much as the average OECD country — yet has the lowest life expectancy and highest suicide rates among the 11 nations.
• The U.S. has the highest chronic disease burden and an obesity rate that is two times higher than the OECD average.
• Americans had fewer physician visits than peers in most countries, which may be related to a low supply of physicians in the U.S.

Tell us again how "good service costs more"

 

[Licou]

Wrong. Again, you'd need to step outside of your bubble a bit more.

Nothing philosophical about the realities of how poor the cost structure of the US health system is.

Well, some people consider this "philosophy" :

 

[Miller Time]

Well, some people consider this "philosophy" :

Lol... and like the Bible, many of those who swear by it haven't even read it... (& as the work of pure fiction/fantasy that it is, atlas is actually a pretty great novel, incidentally)

 

[JunglePete]

Question to the anti vax:

I hear a lot of confidence in regards to the "what if I'm healthy and don't want the vaccine" stuff.

Confidence is good but if government said if you go to hospital due for covid related treatments you foot the bill if unvaccinated...will you keep that confidence? You're so sure so if government applied this to you and whoever else doesn't get vaccinated(without exemption) are you okay with that?

Remember, if your parents, cousins, siblings, friends, etc... are also unvaccinated it applies to them too.

Yup same confidence, I am young in perfect health, I workout 4 times a week. I'm in the category least likely to get complications from it and I can pay the bill if it were to happen.

Now Francky may wanna read Canada Health Bill

Bullying tactics are only gonna make the non vax more adament about not getting the shot. We all know he can't do such thing legally but what about positive reinforcement?

If the vax did such a good job why not REWARD them instead ? Give them bonuses

Sounds like they wanna give fines to the unvax and jail them if you ask me.. very very weird

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Yup same confidence, I am young in perfect health, I workout 4 times a week. I'm in the category least likely to get complications from it and I can pay the bill if it were to happen.

Now Francky may wanna read Canada Health Bill

Bullying tactics are only gonna make the non vax more adament about not getting the shot. We all know he can't do such thing legally but what about positive reinforcement?

If the vax did such a good job why not REWARD them instead ? Give them bonuses

That's fair although I'm not sure every anti vax would agree. It's very expensive should it occur. Being able to pay something and wanting to is completely different.

I think the government is losing more money with the covid situation. If they gave more money away it would just create more debt.

Technically, they can increase taxes for all then give a tax break(reward as you put it) if you're vaccinated. For vax you'd be at square one, for unvaxed you'd have extra tax.