Could the flat cap be an advantage for Toronto?

[Wafflewhipper]

For all those that love the Campbell trade, a reminder that he is Dubas' third attempt at replacing McBackup. Yes, the Kappy deal looks good on paper but it may not if Kappy pulls a Kadri next year.

That is always a concern. I like the chances of Hallander being our third or fourth line center from the impression I’m personally getting about him. Thats just a impression. Robertson can be the equalizer also for my thinking in terms of goals. I hope he can score 15 maybe.

 

[kb]

I'd like to think of it as a passionate fanbase and not having won in 53 years. Do you prefer fan apathy ?? Can you say Argos ??

I'd prefer that passion came with the requisite amounts of intelligence, but alas.....

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Unfortunately there are lots of fans that do not share your opinion. Witness all the flack the Leafs got for trading Kadri ?? What about the trade for Kessel ? It may not be as loud for Kappy, but you can bet it will be there if Kappy does well in the playoffs next year.

I’m reading Kappy might be playing with Crosby. That’s probably going to bump his numbers. So it’s coming likely. I an expecting him to be good. I like the cap space and prospect along with the 15 pick better right now. I’m not going to say i mind this trade at all in a year knowing what we managed to do with it. Kadri trade was received well for most part and i even accepted it at the time after not being very happy about it. Barrie was good under Keefe, terrible under babs. He was not as terrible as made out. I don’t like Kerfoot because i want a more grinding bottom six. I like the trade return for Kappy today and next year or later.

 

[ToneDog]

I'd prefer that passion came with the requisite amounts of intelligence, but alas.....

I’m reading Kappy might be playoff with Crosby. That’s probably going to bump his numbers. So it’s coming likely. I an expecting him to be good. I like the cap space and prospect along with the 15 pick better right now. I’m not going to say i mind this trade at all in a year knowing what we managed to do with it. Kadri trade was received well for most part and i even accepted it at the time after not being very happy about it. Barrie was good under Keefe, terrible under babs. He was not as terrible as made out. I don’t like Kerfoot because i want a more grinding bottom six. I like the trade return for Kappy today and next year or later.

Winning will quiet any critisim. Had Leafs beaten CBJ and then played well in round #1, I bet you do not hear the same flack over the Kadri trade. When you lose ugly and then watch the boy you traded for a worse C and a terrible Dman play well, you are going to hear it.

 

[Byron Bitz]

The flat cap is a major disadvantage because we negotiated big contracts based on a rising cap. However Covid can benefit us by causing our competitors to have a lower internal cap while we remain a cap team.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Winning will quiet any critisim. Had Leafs beaten CBJ and then played well in round #1, I bet you do not hear the same flack over the Kadri trade. When you lose ugly and then watch the boy you traded for a worse C and a terrible Dman play well, you are going to hear it.

And actually not get suspended for the third straight year.

 

[moon111]

Maybe we'll get lucky and some NHL teams will fold.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Maybe we'll get lucky and some NHL teams will fold.

how does that make leafs lucky

 

[Erndog]

Maybe we'll get lucky and some NHL teams will fold.

Oh yeah, huge advantage for us there. Good call.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The Athletic recently made a point I hadn’t considered....

The players will 100% not be getting their escrow money back. So that’s already 20% off the top. So if a team has an 81 million cap hit, it will only cost them something like 64 million in real dollars. The article also pointed out that Covid doesn’t affect revenue sharing, so the poorest of teams will get approximately $20 million. So that’s the owners spending 44 million of a 81 million cap. This means that not as many teams will run an internal cap as we think.

Some food for thought is how this affects Toronto. Sure, they get 20% back from escrow... but they were spending wel over 100 million in real dollars this season. Add revenue sharing and no ticket sales, and maybe the leafs aren’t the usual money making machine. Mlse is almost assuredly getting fed up of spending so much money without any team success.

 

[The CyNick]

I’m reading Kappy might be playing with Crosby. That’s probably going to bump his numbers. So it’s coming likely. I an expecting him to be good. I like the cap space and prospect along with the 15 pick better right now. I’m not going to say i mind this trade at all in a year knowing what we managed to do with it. Kadri trade was received well for most part and i even accepted it at the time after not being very happy about it. Barrie was good under Keefe, terrible under babs. He was not as terrible as made out. I don’t like Kerfoot because i want a more grinding bottom six. I like the trade return for Kappy today and next year or later.

Barrie was good at no point in the season. Kadri was a beast in the playoffs.

As for Kappy, I don't think it matters what he does with Pitt. If he plays with Crosby, he should have a career year. If anything, if that happens I would say it speaks more to the Leafs coaches and players not being able to maximize Kap's value vs Dubas doing a good job maximizing assets in a return for him. My criticism towards Dubas in that scenario would more be around cap management requiring that Kap be moved in the first place.

 

[The CyNick]

The Athletic recently made a point I hadn’t considered....

The players will 100% not be getting their escrow money back. So that’s already 20% off the top. So if a team has an 81 million cap hit, it will only cost them something like 64 million in real dollars. The article also pointed out that Covid doesn’t affect revenue sharing, so the poorest of teams will get approximately $20 million. So that’s the owners spending 44 million of a 81 million cap. This means that not as many teams will run an internal cap as we think.

Some food for thought is how this affects Toronto. Sure, they get 20% back from escrow... but they were spending wel over 100 million in real dollars this season. Add revenue sharing and no ticket sales, and maybe the leafs aren’t the usual money making machine. Mlse is almost assuredly getting fed up of spending so much money without any team success.

Leafs are hard hit by not having fans in the building because the barn is full every night and they have one of the highest average ticket prices in the league. That's a huge chunk of money not coming in.

That said, their local TV is also one of the highest, so they're doing better than almost every other team without selling one ticket.

 

[TML1967]

The flat cap is not helpful, but its root cause is. Teams having no money, means taking smaller cash deals off teams become more valuable.
If you want to move someone like Anderson who is a 5m cap and 1 m salary, you can easily make that more palatable by using a middle team.

I.E.
Anderson to a team for two AHLers making 750k-1m in minors salary, and a mid round pick (Leafs got a 5th at the TDL for similar deal).
Like Detroit for Calvin Picard (800k) and one of McIlrath/Lashoff (275k).

Detroit retains 50%, and flips to the team who wants him, lets say Colorado

Colorado sends to Toronto the 24th pick, Connor Timmins and Jacob MacDonald (350k) TJ Tynan (500k).

---------
Toronto In: Picard, McIlrath, Tynan, Timmins and 24th pick.
Out: Freddie
-Leafs essentially pay Detroit a 4th and 1.075m cash to make Freddie much more valuable.
-Leafs give Colorado a starting goalie @2.5mcap, and 500k actual cost. Take on 850k in MacDonald and Tynan.
- Leafs gain the 24th and Timmins, loose Freddie and a 2nd and a 4th.

Detroit In: 4th round pick
Out: Picard, Mcilrath
- Detroit gains a 4th round to use cap space they werent going to use
- 2.5m in retained cap space, and 500k on Freddie, but remove 1.075 in AHL salaries. Essentially its 575k cash and a 4th after all said and done.

Colorado In: Freddie @2.5m,
Colorado Out: 24th overal, Connor Timmins, MacDonald and Tynan
- Essentialy, they get Freddie to solidify their net, and give up the 24th and Timmins. Timmins is good, but their RD core is set.
- Moving Tynan and MacDonald, they end up saving 350k cash with the move overall, while adding a starting goalie.

Frees the Leafs to go after a guy like Kuemper with the 24th + prospect. Saving cap vs Freddie, and adding Timmins.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The Athletic recently made a point I hadn’t considered....

The players will 100% not be getting their escrow money back. So that’s already 20% off the top. So if a team has an 81 million cap hit, it will only cost them something like 64 million in real dollars. The article also pointed out that Covid doesn’t affect revenue sharing, so the poorest of teams will get approximately $20 million. So that’s the owners spending 44 million of a 81 million cap. This means that not as many teams will run an internal cap as we think.

Some food for thought is how this affects Toronto. Sure, they get 20% back from escrow... but they were spending wel over 100 million in real dollars this season. Add revenue sharing and no ticket sales, and maybe the leafs aren’t the usual money making machine. Mlse is almost assuredly getting fed up of spending so much money without any team success.

The Leafs are still a money making machine they have a big TV contracts plus they make money off anything with their logo on it, Jerseys, hats, socks, underwear, bed sheets,

ANYTHING with their logo on it.

they will be fine

 

[ToneDog]

The flat cap is not helpful, but its root cause is. Teams having no money, means taking smaller cash deals off teams become more valuable.
If you want to move someone like Anderson who is a 5m cap and 1 m salary, you can easily make that more palatable by using a middle team.

I.E.
Anderson to a team for two AHLers making 750k-1m in minors salary, and a mid round pick (Leafs got a 5th at the TDL for similar deal).
Like Detroit for Calvin Picard (800k) and one of McIlrath/Lashoff (275k).

Detroit retains 50%, and flips to the team who wants him, lets say Colorado

Colorado sends to Toronto the 24th pick, Connor Timmins and Jacob MacDonald (350k) TJ Tynan (500k).

---------
Toronto In: Picard, McIlrath, Tynan, Timmins and 24th pick.
Out: Freddie
-Leafs essentially pay Detroit a 4th and 1.075m cash to make Freddie much more valuable.
-Leafs give Colorado a starting goalie @2.5mcap, and 500k actual cost. Take on 850k in MacDonald and Tynan.
- Leafs gain the 24th and Timmins, loose Freddie and a 2nd and a 4th.

Detroit In: 4th round pick
Out: Picard, Mcilrath
- Detroit gains a 4th round to use cap space they werent going to use
- 2.5m in retained cap space, and 500k on Freddie, but remove 1.075 in AHL salaries. Essentially its 575k cash and a 4th after all said and done.

Colorado In: Freddie @2.5m,
Colorado Out: 24th overal, Connor Timmins, MacDonald and Tynan
- Essentialy, they get Freddie to solidify their net, and give up the 24th and Timmins. Timmins is good, but their RD core is set.
- Moving Tynan and MacDonald, they end up saving 350k cash with the move overall, while adding a starting goalie.

Frees the Leafs to go after a guy like Kuemper with the 24th + prospect. Saving cap vs Freddie, and adding Timmins.

You are playing chess while I am playing checkers.

 

[kb]

You are playing chess while I am playing checkers.

I roared at that. Well done.

 

[TML1967]

You are playing chess while I am playing checkers.

Haha thank I think?
Essentially any deal where we move Anderson becomes way more valuable by using a middle team to filter 50% of his cap hit/cash cost.
All the Leafs need to do to make it worth while is take on a few AHL guys who make good money.
Best part is, the AHLers list who make 250k+ a year is full of guys who the Marlies could use to help insulate their younger guys.

 

[ToneDog]

Haha thank I think?
Essentially and deal where we move Anderson becomes way more valueable by using a middle team to filter 50% of his cap hit/cash cost.
All the Leafs need to do to make it worth while is take on a few AHL guys who make good money.
Best part is, the AHLers list who make 250k+ a year is full of guys who the Marlies could use to help insulate their younger guys.

Not a slant. I commend you for coming up with all those moving parts. Timmons, #24 and some bad salaries for Andy and something insignificant would be a coup for Dubas.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

Yes and no to it being an advantage. The leafs can and will flex their financial superiority in the way contracts are structured. It can be heavily front loaded with it also being signing bonus heavy. The issue is navigating those contracts to fit the aav under the cap. The leafs currently are a low-salary high-bonus team where players get paid the majority of their contracts before they hit the halfway mark.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I'd prefer that passion came with the requisite amounts of intelligence, but alas.....

It’s not intelligent to make lame excuses for the inexcusable.

 

[Menzinger]

The Leafs are still a money making machine they have a big TV contracts plus they make money off anything with their logo on it, Jerseys, hats, socks, underwear, bed sheets,

ANYTHING with their logo on it.

they will be fine

A lot of teams/owners are leveraged financially and for a lot of years have operated on razor thin margins.

MLSE has generated a ton of guaranteed profits even during the dark ages of the mid 00s.

Theyve taken a hit but Imo are likely one of the best positioned to ride this out vs most others in the league. They're one of the few orgs that have opted to keep paying arena staff too (a good sign).

Edit:
The salary cap has also been a huge boon to MLSE finances since they are constrained from spending more even if they wanted to.

 

[robertmac43]

It's not a straight advantage for the Leafs, obviously a bigger cap or no cap at all would be huge for them. That being said the current economic climate in the league will allow the Leafs to be advantageous in certain areas. They will be able to spend to the cap easy when other teams will not be able to.

 

[Legion34]

The biggest advantage for Toronto is SB. They can pay players whether they get paid or not.

Multiple teams have said they will be at a 70 million ish cap.


17 teams have cut the salaries of people making 200k.....,,


They will be cutting million dollar players too