Could MTL and TOR support another team each?

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by colosilverado, Mar 24, 2005.

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  1. colosilverado

    colosilverado Registered User

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    I know that it is probably a dumb question and not worth talking about, but I was curious.
    I am guessing that they could each support 2 teams due to the current teams having very storied franchises and rabid support. I have always thought that local rivalries are something very special. I know that Edmonton and Calgary is a pretty bitter rivalry and I'd honestly like to see more Canadian teams again. As an American, I like seeing hockey take root here more and more, but I think that it would be awesome to see Canada actually gain back a few new teams.

    Also, I have read articles that General Motors is having serious problems but that as America's largest employer( by number, I think), I have heard that some might actually ask the government to step in and help save the company financially if it were about to go belly up.

    Is there any case where the Canadian government might be able to help these Canadian teams out somehow? I know that is probably a stretch and unrealistic, but I think it is a crime that Canada has lost as many teams as it has. I know that some think that the talent pool is depleted and weak enough as it is and that this would probably jack up the salaries more. I also know that the American teams would probably whine and say that it was an unfair advantage. Maybe rightfully so. It would have to be done some way that they would necessarily gain an advantage...at least not a huge one, but allow a few more teams in Canada which might in turn help the Canadian economy. Hell, it might increase rivalries between the US and Canada which I don't think there is enough of. Maybe if the team that won actually got to keep the Stanley Cup in their complex for the entire season, it would increase the rivalry between the nations and spawn more growth for hockey's fanbase. I don't remember the names of some of the other trophies that are done that way, but I can see maybe an even deeper desire to win the Cup if it meant returning it to the country where it "belongs".


    I am obviously not an economist or businessman, so I am sure that this is all stupid, but I was just thinking about it and don't to see hockey die...especially not in the country that created it.
     
  2. waffledave

    waffledave waffledave, from hf

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    I think another team in either of those cities would fail. I know that I, for one, will never support another team besides the Habs.
     
  3. acr*

    acr* Guest

    Could-Yes
    Will-Probably not

    It'd be interesting, but they'd probably end up like the Whalers, who were sort of looked at as a littlr brother team to Boston and New York
     
  4. Alfie#11

    Alfie#11 Registered User

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    I don't think either city would support another team in terms of fan support. Toronto is a Maple Leaf city and Montreal is strictly Hab country.

    Financially - Toronto could but Montreal couldn't.
     
  5. SuperUnknown

    SuperUnknown Registered User

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    I don't think Montreal could support two teams. Maybe Toronto could though.
     
  6. acr*

    acr* Guest

    Montreal could if and only if there are enough hardcore hockey fans from the 1920s who remember the Maroons
     
  7. Alfie#11

    Alfie#11 Registered User

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    The support a team needs is not "hardcore fans". It's (1) coroprate support and (2) casual fans.

    There's just not enough money in Montreal to support two NHL teams.
     
  8. Munchausen

    Munchausen Guest

    That's true, and as a Habs fan who lives in Montreal, I can add without a doubt Montreal isn't passionate about hockey, just the Habs. It might not be so for the hardcore fans that post here, but it certainly is so for the majority of the fanbase. There's very little interest in hockey here outside of the Habs, proven once again this year by the fact that RDS, major sport network in Montreal and official Habs network, chose to broadcast boring NHLers' charity hockey and a few European games, provided there was a Habs player in it, rather than some exciting AHL hockey. Nobody will support anything else than the Habs here.
     
  9. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    A Team in Hamilton though might work ..

    They have the Arena and are close enough to draw from the Toronto GTA area .. and maybe even Buffalo at times ..

    You would have to go back to Quebec city to have a 2nd team in the Province .IMO
     
  10. AH

    AH Registered User

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    I would love to see another team in Quebec City though ... after all it is an extended suburb of Montreal . :D
     
  11. alecfromtherock

    alecfromtherock Registered User

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    No but Quebec City, Hamilton and Winnipeg could support a NHL team which would help inter-provincial rivalries(Edmonton-Calgary-Winnipeg, Ottawa-Toronto-Hamilton, Quebec City-Montreal)
     
  12. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    They should relocate a couple of DEEP South teams to Hamilton and Winnipeg
     
  13. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    Why?
     
  14. David Puddy

    David Puddy Registered User

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    Yeah like maybe Phoenix could move to Winnipeg. Oh, wait a second...
     
  15. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

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    Absolutely they could not.

    The cities do not support hockey per se, they are supporting the teams and the tradition behind the teams.
     
  16. colosilverado

    colosilverado Registered User

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    Yeah, I figured it would be too hard though and I know it'd never happen anyway. I figure it would be tough to really get a fanbase in either city beyond those that already support the local team and would never switch allegiance.

    Since I am not Canadian and obviously have no clue as to the hockey culture up there, I am curious as to whether the cities that lost their teams just quit following hockey or what. I know that I was maybe 10 or so when the Rockies moved to NJ and of course I didn't follow hockey after that. Of course being only 10 at the time and with no cable (don't even think it was around), what was I gonna do? Since there is so much more hockey to follow up there, do the people who lost their NHL team just switch to another league and close team? I assume that if youre a hockey fan, you also follow the "lower" league teams and just get into them more.

    I was just wondering if the NHL just lost a big majority of it's former Canadian fanbase in those areas or what.
     
  17. oil slick

    oil slick Registered User

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    I've lived for quite a while in both cities. There is absolutely no Montreal could support another team. The city is just not that rich.

    Toronto could, but it really is a leaf town, so as others have said, I think Hamilton would be the best option. I think there is enough money in the GTA to support two teams, but I'm not sure there is the will to support a team not the leafs.
     
  18. Leafer4Life

    Leafer4Life Go Leafs Go!

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    Just like I will never support another NHL team besides the leafs.........
     
  19. Phillip The Third

    Phillip The Third ... line center ?

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    It's not true that Montreal only support the habs. It's just that we got pretty spoiled over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bell Centre was filled last WC ? We're used to the highest quality of hockey, and won't settle for less.
     
  20. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    I think both cities *could* support another team each, but the key factor is that there has to be some inate separation. Think Cubbies/White Sox, the North/South Chicago thing.

    Montreal obviously has the English/French thing, you'd need the second team to be primarily English. I don't know of any obvious split in the Toronto area.

    Could it happen nowadays? Not a chance. Who'd give up following the Leafs to start following a new team?
     
  21. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Registered User

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    it could be fun to see the maroons back ! :D
     
  22. ColinM

    ColinM Registered User

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    The best split I could think of in the Toronto area would be Hamilton/Toronto. I know that they are two seperate cities but they are pretty close together and alot of people live in Hamilton and work in Toronto, so I'm sure some of Toronto's money could find its way into Hamilton. That said you are right in that the leafs would be the primary team. The setup wouldn't be that different from what the Rangers and Devils have now.
     
  23. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    The huge amount of money that a Hamilton franchise would have to pay in territorial rights fees to the Leafs would keep everyone away for one thing, likewise for any team around Montreal.
     
  24. Lobstertainment

    Lobstertainment Oh no, my brains.

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    Hamilton would be a very very VERY unlikely spot.

    unless the lockout goes another year and there's 20 million dollar salary caps then I could see a Hamilton Tigers team being a thorn in the side of the Leafs. would they get fan support though? I am not sure, many people from Hamilton are leaf fans, allthough there already is a rivalry between the two cities...especially in the CFL, so I could see Hamiltonians becoming sellout traitors.

    Montreal has had 2 teams in the past, the Wanderers who burned down and then the Maroons, if any city gets a second team I hope it's montreal with the wanderers just for tradition.

    personally in downtown Toronto I can attest that a second team ala the Lakers/Clippers or White Sox/Cubbies would not work and would never survive.
     
  25. Munchausen

    Munchausen Guest

    I consider the WC as an event just like the Tennis Masters or F1. Those always do well in Montreal. I haven't seen anything here that would suggest the hockey crowd is anything more than a Habs crowd. The team will always get inconditional support, but nothing else hockey related.

    The Rocket failing is an other example of this, but the biggest and most relevant proof is the way the sports media covers hockey here (both papers and TV). It's either about a french-canadian doing well elsewhere or the Habs. The rest of the leagues, even the NHL, are at best superficially covered.

    An other sign is Videotron's lack of a Center Ice package. Last year, I asked Videotron if they were ever going to consider offering a Center Ice package. They told me they were following demand and if enough asked for it, it would definitelly be considered. Well apparently, there isn't enough demand in the whole province for a Center Ice package to be viable for them, so they will not be offering it.

    We've been able to see just how this town isn't about hockey once more during this lockout just from the way RDS completely failed to replace the NHL with the closest thing to it, with Habs prospects to boot, the AHL. They would rather show the Caravan McDo charity tour since there was a couple of home boys in it or some European games featuring either Kovalev, Markov, Koivu, Souray, Theodore or Ribeiro.

    The Canadiens culture is well implemented in Montreal, but the hockey culture at large is just not there. If you're passionate about hockey, you will demand for it, and so far, even during this lockout, it seems nobody cares about anything else than the Habs.
     
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