OT: Coronavirus XXXXI: 2nd Shot to the Arm But It's Not Too Late You Give Vaccine Procurement a Bad Name

[Bryanbryoil]

It seems that it may actually favor people to delay their 2nd vaccine dose.

Click to read more...

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Gimme my 2nd shot and let me into an Oiler game. That’s all that matters right now.

 

[Sempiternal]

The real shot to the arm is seeing US arenas with fans.

 

[rboomercat90]

The real shot to the arm is seeing US arenas with fans.

Who would have thought we’d ever see the day where the Carolina Hurricanes would have the best attendance in the league?

 

[oobga]

Spanish study finds AstraZeneca vaccine followed by Pfizer dose is safe and effective

So AZ + Pfizer >>> AZ + AZ?

Sounds good to me. Pfizer me up now! when we have the supply for 2nd doses at least...July?

 

[bucks_oil]

Spanish study finds AstraZeneca vaccine followed by Pfizer dose is safe and effective

So AZ + Pfizer >>> AZ + AZ?

Sounds good to me. Pfizer me up now! when we have the supply for 2nd doses at least...July?

This makes sense and would be expected for two reasons:

1) There is plenty of historical research to say that priming with one vaccine modality (typically a viral vector) and boosting with another (typically a recombinant protein, but in this case mRNA which codes for the same protein) gets you a better response that two doses of the same modality. This was studied extensively in HIV trials in the 90's/00's. Nice to see that translating.

2) The big drawback of viral vector vaccines (like AZ) is that you get immunity to the viral vector itself. So when you get the second shot, the immunity against the viral vector (not the SARS-CoV2 viral target, aka spike) means that the 2nd dose is quickly mopped up by the immune system and doesn't "take".... remember that viral vectors need to create an infection before the payload can be produced in the body. If you have anti-vector antibodies, that 2nd dose is neutralized.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Spanish study finds AstraZeneca vaccine followed by Pfizer dose is safe and effective

So AZ + Pfizer >>> AZ + AZ?

Sounds good to me. Pfizer me up now! when we have the supply for 2nd doses at least...July?

A miniscule sample of 650 is insufficient to determine that combining the vaccines is "safe''. I just debunked a similar article on the last pages.

Even in AZ initial testing involving 30K subjects the VITT side effects were not detected. Who knows if the combination of AZ and mRna vaccines also maximizes THAT reaction? Or if results in similar VITT effects.

The difficulty is these micro studies won't detect serious side effects. They will later be found, when introduced into populations.

 

[oobga]

A miniscule sample of 650 is insufficient to determine that combining the vaccines is "safe''. I just debunked a similar article on the last pages.

Even in AZ initial testing involving 30K subjects the VITT side effects were not detected. Who knows if the combination of AZ and mRna vaccines also maximizes THAT reaction? Or if results in similar VITT effects.

The difficulty is these micro studies won't detect serious side effects. They will later be found, when introduced into populations.

Looks like more studies of this were already done, so can expect it is going to be done a lot in the coming months around the world. Lucky us I guess? Since we won't even have the choice here for another couple months.

 

[bucks_oil]

A miniscule sample of 650 is insufficient to determine that combining the vaccines is "safe''. I just debunked a similar article on the last pages.

Even in AZ initial testing involving 30K subjects the VITT side effects were not detected. Who knows if the combination of AZ and mRna vaccines also maximizes THAT reaction? Or if results in similar VITT effects.

The difficulty is these micro studies won't detect serious side effects. They will later be found, when introduced into populations.

You are right that the safety profiles of like-with-like vs mismatch could differ.... not enough data one way or another yet. My previous comment was more about the efficacy, which, as I described is not surprising.

... but yeah... formal studies of mismatch regimens are being conducted and that data will inform guidance. (which IMO is worth waiting for)

 

[Drivesaitl]

You are right that the safety profiles of like-with-like vs mismatch could differ.... not enough data one way or another yet. My previous comment was more about the efficacy, which, as I described is not surprising.

... but yeah... formal studies of mismatch regimens are being conducted and that data will inform guidance. (which IMO is worth waiting for)

I was responding to the initial article that mistakenly states the mixing is safe, and this is not in isolation.

All the studies so far on AZ and Pfizers vaccine specifically are small sample as much larger samples would be prohibitively expensive and unwieldy to conduct. Which means basically that its going to be widescale testing on the public once again.

Nobody predicted the VITT reactions either. What happens if introduction of mRna makes those reactions more frequent or the same?

My concern is how quickly studies, and the media, are using disinformation in labeling the mixing "safe". Its an unknown.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It seems that it may actually favor people to delay their 2nd vaccine dose.

This was reported with the AZ vaccine way back when we got our shots in March. At that time indications were that waiting would increase efficacy of AZ vaccine.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Looks like more studies of this were already done, so can expect it is going to be done a lot in the coming months around the world. Lucky us I guess? Since we won't even have the choice here for another couple months.

Unfortunately the timelines of when flags show up, and when anything is done about it is notoriously slow, inconsistent, changes, etc. Again it wasn't until AZ was introduced to the public that VITT became known as a very severe and even lethal side effect of that vaccine.

Of course something that can occur in general pop in 1/50k cases is unlikely to show up in a tiny sample of hundreds of people, which really precludes nothing, and certainly doesn't mean the vaccine mixing is safe.

 

[gordonhught]

I know two people who have developed blood clotting issues after receiving their vaccines. One is a relative. The other is a family friend who has blood clots in his lungs and also has bad headaches.

My relative got the Pfizer shot I think. He is older and his immediate family told him to get vaccinated. Now he is in hospital.

 

[joestevens29]

Spanish study finds AstraZeneca vaccine followed by Pfizer dose is safe and effective

So AZ + Pfizer >>> AZ + AZ?

Sounds good to me. Pfizer me up now! when we have the supply for 2nd doses at least...July?

How about Saline + Pfizer?

 

[doulos]

I know two people who have developed blood clotting issues after receiving their vaccines. One is a relative. The other is a family friend who has blood clots in his lungs and also has bad headaches.

My relative got the Pfizer shot I think. He is older and his immediate family told him to get vaccinated. Now he is in hospital.

I've had two family members die from covid19. Neither were vaccinated.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I've had two family members die from covid19. Neither were vaccinated.

Sorry for your losses. If you don't mind sharing, what was their ages and did they have any pre-existing conditions?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It sounds like the Brazilian strain is starting to ramp up here in Hawaii and supposedly taking over as the dominant strain after the California strain(s) have been the dominant ones for some time.

 

[doulos]

Sorry for your losses. If you don't mind sharing, what was their ages and did they have any pre-existing conditions?

Both over 70. Nearly every human on earth has pre-existing conditions, so yes.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

How about Saline + Pfizer?

I think Lethbridge was onto something

 

[K1984]

I know two people who have developed blood clotting issues after receiving their vaccines. One is a relative. The other is a family friend who has blood clots in his lungs and also has bad headaches.

My relative got the Pfizer shot I think. He is older and his immediate family told him to get vaccinated. Now he is in hospital.

You should buy a lottery ticket, because the odds of "knowing" this many people directly that all had incredibly rare vaccine complications is about the same as winning the jackpot.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Stoneman89]

Hope that truck has heavy duty springs.

 

[bellagiobob]

Hope that truck has heavy duty springs.

Welcome new guy.

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm finally back on! Got zapped from the last thread by some over-zealous mod, over who knows what.

Have to remember - only sunshine and lollipops on here 24/7.

 

[bellagiobob]