OT: Coronavirus V: The Dustbin of History

[StormCast]

But to the point -- having an M.D. does not necessarily make a person qualified to speak publicly on any and all medical issues. The individual who made this video is a social media influencer and CEO of a medical education LLC. He is not a practicing doctor, he is not in any way involved in medical research, he's not an expert in public policy, he's not an evident specialist in CC. What makes him qualified to throw his personal speculation into the public forum? Apparently, his qualification is the fact that his videos draw attention to his "personal brand" which feeds customers to his company.

He's also a member of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), which is more of a political propaganda outfit than anything. He is not a practicing physician and isn't specialized in cardiology or infectious diseases. Not exactly a credible source on the topic at hand.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And I suspect that the more a person is invested in a position, the greater the chance that (s)he will make an invalid inference, intentional or not.

That’s more than just a suspicion, it’s a fact proven many times over, and true of all people on all sides of all topics. It’s the primary reason we humans argue as often and as viciously as we do, and why we can’t seem to come back together once battle lines are drawn.

 

[MinJaBen]

That’s more than just a suspicion, it’s a fact proven many times over, and true of all people on all sides of all topics. It’s the primary reason we humans argue as often and as viciously as we do, and why we can’t seem to come back together once battle lines are drawn.

Goalie size matters! Fight me.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Goalie size matters! Fight me.

Easy to say when you have a huge one

 

[The Stranger]

This was the most widely distributed rollout of any medicine ever- and the most scrutinized.

By what metric were they the most scrutinized?

1) The trials were fast-tracked. 10 months instead of 5-10 years.
2) The FDA approval process was politicized with vaccine officials resigning for this reason.
3) Traditional media was getting paid for advertising from big pharma and the federal gov't to promote the shots and be advocates.
4) Critiques/concerns from doctors, academics, and journalists were getting censored at the behest of the federal government the Pfizer board members.
5) Trial data was withheld from the public out of a concern it would cause hesitancy.

 

[The Stranger]

Establishment of the histological phenotype of lethal vaccine-associated myocarditis.

 

[LakeLivin]

Establishment of the histological phenotype of lethal vaccine-associated myocarditis.

Interesting. I scanned the actual paper and here are some things it contains that the MD in the video doesn't really mention that should be noted when considering the results of the study he quotes (any bolding added by me):

"Our study is limited by the relatively small cohort size and inherits the bias of an endpoint analysis. The nature of our autopsy study necessitates that the data are descriptive in quality and does not allow any epidemiological conclusions in terms of incidence or risk estimation. The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29]. Importantly, infectious agents may also cause lymphocytic myocarditis with a similar immunophenotype, thus meticulous molecular analyses is required in all cases of potentially vaccination-associated myocarditis."

"Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis. Further studies and extended registry are needed to identify persons at risk for this potentially fatal AEFI and may be aided by detailed clinical, serological, and molecular analyses which were beyond the scope of this study. Considering that this fatal adverse event may affect healthy individuals, such registry and surveillance programs may improve early diagnosis, close monitoring, and treatment."
__________________________

As a statistician, I'd have loved to see a similar autopsy done on sudden deaths linked to myocarditis among subjects who hadn't been vaccinated as a control.

Note that I'm pointing out factors that the study authors state should be taken into consideration with respect to interpreting the study results. By no means am I trying to make an argument that myocarditis, perhaps even leading to death, isn't ever linked to mRNA vaccines. The more they learn about any link the better, for several reasons. Obviously, one is to take steps to reduce any risk. But it's also important to accurately define the risk, because the ultimate consideration for any rational person should be the risk ratio of a severe negative clinical outcome resulting from a vaccine vs. a severe negative clinical outcome resulting from the disease that vaccine might mitigate.

An example of one interesting bit of speculation from the authors prompted by the study :
"Interestingly, we recorded inflammatory foci predominantly in the right heart, which may suggest a gradual blood-stream derived dilution effect and based on this finding it is at least tempting to speculate that inadvertent intravascular vaccine injection may be contributive."

 

[StormCast]

By what metric were they the most scrutinized?

1) The trials were fast-tracked. 10 months instead of 5-10 years.
2) The FDA approval process was politicized with vaccine officials resigning for this reason.
3) Traditional media was getting paid for advertising from big pharma and the federal gov't to promote the shots and be advocates.
4) Critiques/concerns from doctors, academics, and journalists were getting censored at the behest of the federal government the Pfizer board members.
5) Trial data was withheld from the public out of a concern it would cause hesitancy.

C'mon that's right out of the conspiracy talking points memo. Yes, clinical trials get fast-tracked during pandemics and the mRNA platform allows for incredibly fast development, so does global cooperation and an unusually high volunteer participation rate.

Yes, a number of voices were muted but in nearly every case it was because of specious findings on their part or that embrace of conspiracy theories and misinformation. Citing a member of FLCCC doesn't add any real value to or support for your argument.

 

[The Stranger]

C'mon that's right out of the conspiracy talking points memo. Yes, clinical trials get fast-tracked during pandemics and the mRNA platform allows for incredibly fast development, so does global cooperation and an unusually high volunteer participation rate.

Yes, a number of voices were muted but in nearly every case it was because of specious findings on their part or that embrace of conspiracy theories and misinformation. Citing a member of FLCCC doesn't add any real value to or support for your argument.

I don't take issue with fast-tracking a solution during a pandemic...perfectly rational.

That being said, I don't believe it was the most scrutinized rollout of medicine...given the circumstances, it seemed like scrutiny was sacrificed for expediency and acceptance...no value judgement involved....just my assessment.

You can say "conspiracy talking points memo"...but I believe everything I listed is fact.

 

[StormCast]

I don't take issue with fast-tracking a solution during a pandemic...perfectly rational.

That being said, I don't believe it was the most scrutinized rollout of medicine...given the circumstances, it seemed like scrutiny was sacrificed for expediency and acceptance...no value judgement involved....just my assessment.

You can say "conspiracy talking points memo"...but I believe everything I listed is fact.

Considering you are citing conspiracist theory sources, I have no doubt you believe in these conspiracy theories. So let's dig deeper. Can you name one legitimate medical source, along with their credentials, who was censored? And what proof do you have that the government or Pfizer were behind to so-called canceling? This is where reality and misinformation meet. Your at-bat.

 

[The Stranger]

An example of one interesting bit of speculation from the authors prompted by the study :
"Interestingly, we recorded inflammatory foci predominantly in the right heart, which may suggest a gradual blood-stream derived dilution effect and based on this finding it is at least tempting to speculate that inadvertent intravascular vaccine injection may be contributive."

Dr. John Campbell was putting this theory out there a while ago...he was urging that the shots should be aspirated in order to avoid injection into the blood.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

I don't take issue with fast-tracking a solution during a pandemic...perfectly rational.

That being said, I don't believe it was the most scrutinized rollout of medicine...given the circumstances, it seemed like scrutiny was sacrificed for expediency and acceptance...no value judgement involved....just my assessment.

You can say "conspiracy talking points memo"...but I believe everything I listed is fact.

my guy, the rollout of these vaccines had one of the largest clinical trials in recorded history, and is now one of the most widely distributed vaccines all time

how could it NOT be one of the most scrutinized medicine rollouts? the number of datapoints is astronomical compared to what we have for most clinical trials

 

[Lempo]

It was recently recommended by our insurance board (a complaint organ) that the insurance company pays up for a retinal thrombosis ehcih was likely caused by Comirnaty-vaccination (BioN-Tech and Pfizer) received in March 2021.

 

[StormCast]

Dr. John Campbell was putting this theory out there a while ago...he was urging that the shots should be aspirated in order to avoid injection into the blood.

Not to diminish his degree but he is a PhD in Philosophy not an MD. Details matter.

 

[The Stranger]

Considering you are citing conspiracist theory sources, I have no doubt you believe in these conspiracy theories. So let's dig deeper. Can you name one legitimate medical source, along with their credentials, who was censored? And what proof do you have that the government or Pfizer were behind to so-called canceling? This is where reality and misinformation meet. Your at-bat.

I cited a video from physician that happens to have a perspective/opinion/theory that differs than yours on a medical event. It's your interpretation that this is a "conspiracy theory".

As far as one legitimate medical source who was censored: Jay Bhattacharya and Martin Kulldorff are epidemiologists that were censored and are plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the Biden Admin. Proof is listed in the linked article from lawsuit discovery.

As far as the Pfizer board member, one of the recent Twitter drops showed Scott Gottlieb (currently on Pfizer's BoD and former FDA Deputy Commissioner...nice revolving door) successfully lobbied to have Brett Giroir (a former FDA commissioner) censored.

 

[The Stranger]

my guy, the rollout of these vaccines had one of the largest clinical trials in recorded history, and is now one of the most widely distributed vaccines all time

how could it NOT be one of the most scrutinized medicine rollouts? the number of datapoints is astronomical compared to what we have for most clinical trials

But my dude, data collection =/= scrutiny.

Case in point.

 

[The Stranger]

Not to diminish his degree but he is a PhD in Philosophy not an MD. Details matter.

He does not have a PhD in Philosophy. He has a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Nursing Education.

You can view his education and work history on linkedin. He has been working and continuing his education in health care for 40 years.

 

[frankiess]

C'mon that's right out of the conspiracy talking points memo. Yes, clinical trials get fast-tracked during pandemics and the mRNA platform allows for incredibly fast development, so does global cooperation and an unusually high volunteer participation rate.

Yes, a number of voices were muted but in nearly every case it was because of specious findings on their part or that embrace of conspiracy theories and misinformation. Citing a member of FLCCC doesn't add any real value to or support for your argument.

''the conspiracy talking points memo.'' Because you say so?
''the government or Pfizer'' They could tell you who started the Chicago fire, that don't make it so. See: Gulf of Tonkin incident.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

By what metric were they the most scrutinized?

That the rollout had billions of data points and was followed by every health ministry on the planet?

Use of the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) COVID-19 Vaccine ...

This report describes updated recommendations from the ACIP to the use of Janssen mRNA COVID-19 vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

But my dude, data collection =/= scrutiny.

Case in point.

So what are some examples of a rollout you believe was more scrutinized?

I cited a video from physician

He is not a physician. He is a nurse who has a doctorate from his work in pedagogy.

He also believes horse dewormer cures covid lmao

 

[The Stranger]

He is not a physician. He is a nurse who has a doctorate from his work in pedagogy.

He also believes horse dewormer cures covid lmao

Quick clarification. I was referring to Dr. Mobeen Syed earlier in the thread who I believe @StormCast was labeling the conspiracy theorist due to his association with FLCCC.

Yes, I know Dr. John Campbell is not a physician.

 

[Lempo]

That the rollout had billions of data points and was followed by every health ministry on the planet?

The ministry doesn't evoke confidence on this, though. The corona business was and is highly political as the politicians go. At least our various public organizations have been at odds on plethora of corona-related things, occasionally very publicly.

And it won't get any easier now that the statistics show excess deaths compared to the normal and someone maybe should find out what's causing them.

 

[DaveG]

locking for now since this is getting waaaaaaaaay too political following the recent Twitter drop and the Hamlin situation. Going to do some cleanup after my shift and re-open.