twabby
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2010
- 13,772
- 14,714
Then move to China.
I would if they'd have me.
Please President Xi, me and my people yearn for freedom.
Then move to China.
I would if they'd have me.
Please President Xi, me and my people yearn for freedom.
Seek help.
Please President Xi, me and my people yearn for freedom.
Please quote where I said everything would be much worse than last year.
I don't know how you can look at 3000+ deaths a day (more than a 9/11 a day) and not be utterly panicked/despondent/depressed about the current situation. Hospitalizations and deaths rose proportionately to cases, with a lag-time of about 23 days as I suggested could be the case. You suggested somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 days because that's what happened last year, and I said this was an incorrect assumption mainly because Delta's deaths lagged longer than 10 days (indeed, around 23 days). You, of course, were wrong.
Please quote where I said everything would be much worse than last year.
They absolutely did NOT rise in proportion to cases, and the pattern did mirror last year. But the death rate was much, much lower even though cases were much, much higher.
Cases in MD peaked Jan 9 and deaths peaked Jan 19th. 1o days. For NY it was about 2 weeks.
So within a week or two as predicted.
You said because of the sheer volume from Omicron "Hospitals are going to collapse because they are overwhelmed with patients." Didn't happen. Even nationwide hospitalizations have been going down since Jan 20 or so, just as predicted.
View attachment 505097
So you're welcome.
Yes, hospitalizations and cases rose in proportion to cases, with a national lag-time of about ~23 days per data here: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Cases
I don't care about MD or NY because I never made the claim that MD and NY would follow the national pattern. I was making the claim about numbers nationally.
I also don't know how you can make the claim that hospitals haven't been overwhelmed with patients and that they haven't undergone collapses in care. Here are two link, but there are plenty more on Google if you'd like to look:
ERs are overwhelmed as omicron continues to flood them with patients
Metro Atlanta hospitals are overwhelmed -- and some ambulances must get diverted, health care leaders say - CNN
OT: - Coronavirus Thread (MOD Warning Post #19)
"They're being hospitalized in greater numbers, isn't it possible they could die in higher numbers as well?"
You opened this thread with these concerns about "how do we know it won't be worse?"
OT: - Coronavirus Thread (MOD Warning Post #19)
If you want to play semantics, fine. But you're clearly sounding the alarm that things are much worse.
OT: - Coronavirus Thread (MOD Warning Post #19)
You continued to argue with me when I said there was nothing to suggest the situation would be much different than last winter. Painting bleak scenarios with "tons" of dead people and predicting system collapse is certainly a prediction that things will be worse than before.
I'm not going to go through all 20 pages or whatever.
I opened this thread because we were bombarded with "omicron is mild" stories from the corporate-aligned media when it first hit and I wanted to dispel that nonsense from the start. This "mild" wave has now surpassed Delta and is just short of last winter's wave in terms of body count. It's been really bad, and worthy of alarm. I'm sorry you don't think 3000+ deaths a day was worth being worried about, but here we are.
"Mild" was a description of the symptoms and outcomes compared to previous strains, not a dismissal of the transmissibility. JFC
I can't control whether or not people get vaccinated, bud. If you want them to stop dying then encourage move vaccine uptake.
The purpose of these "Omicron is mild" stories was to persuade people to continue working and to go about their daily lives in the name of The Economy. They absolutely latched onto what appeared to be (and turned out to be correct) a lower CFR and IFR in order to get people back to work, knowing full well that this was a bad faith interpretation of how deadly omicron could end up being due to the much higher transmissibility. Indeed, in the US the probability of dying from omicron turned out to be higher than the probability of dying from delta.
Then there's the matter of your final sentence which seems like a ridiculous whitewash of statistics and reality.
Omicron associated with 91% reduction in risk of death compared to Delta, study finds
Yes, the link you cited does not address transmissibility at all but rather focuses on those with confirmed cases. The probability of dying from omicron is higher, because more people have died of omicron. It's quite simple.
I'm in full agreement with you about getting vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated, and everyone should get boosted. I think it should be compulsory as well. I don't want to make it seem like I disagree with your sentiment about getting vaccinated, because I agree wholeheartedly. Vaccinated people are far less likely to have serious health outcomes or death from COVID.
But I'm also not going to ignore or downplay the suffering that unvaccinated people have endured. These are still people, even if they have made and continue to make very poor choices. A lot of these people are now dead (every week a Capital One Arena's worth of dead bodies from the US alone), and that's alarming and why I'm in favor of lockdowns. I'm sorry you don't agree.
Opinion | The secret ingredient that makes societies better at fighting Covid
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Welp, that blows up your theory, Twabbs.
We’ve found that people who reject vaccines are not necessarily less scientifically literate or less well-informed than those who don’t,” they wrote. “Instead, hesitancy reflects a transformation of our core beliefs about what we owe one another.” They attribute a great deal of that transformation to a global trend of governments cutting social services and delegating them to the private sector, where they're less evenly accessible and class disadvantage breeds suspicion of institutions.
The cost of austerity policy is greater than just cutting off vulnerable people’s access to services — it also narrows people's perception of community, solidarity and citizenship.
Yet the same piece includes the following passage:
Seems like this author agrees that less privatization, and more government-provided benefits for all would do something to increase trust.
The ACT of CUTTING existing benefits has the effect of causing distrust and lowering community association. The issue is TRUST in the institution, which is broken when the cuts are made. The benefits themselves are not what's transformative. This was already quoted above.
Also:
View attachment 505141
There is a proven propaganda apparatus that creates this situation and is currently virtually impossible to completely counteract.
Lobbing "generous benefits for all" will not have the effect you hope it will, just as access to vaccines themselves isn't enough to get these people to actually receive them. ANYTHING can be reframed in a way that creates the perception of an enemy assault on the target audience's allegedly vulnerable "freedoms" or rights.
Even now when something good is done or money is spent it's immediately spun into something sinister, wasteful, unamerican, or covert. Your "generous benefits for all" will be seen as "commie mandates and tyranny rackin' up the debt and takin' away our jerbs!"
So unless you can find a way to get that 20-40% out there to TRUST the other side (and consensus reality) enough to get the jab and get boosted, no amount of generous benefiting is going to make a difference... and may actually make the resistance worse.
I don’t think it’s a leap to suggest that if cutting benefits erodes trust that increasing benefits will increase trust.
I say we increase these benefits to never before seen levels, both as a measure to end this pandemic but also because more benefits are inherently good things.
You're taking 7 days. Take since Jan 1st and tell me the NY VS FL data.
Again, even if you say just the last 7 days - still doesn't differentiate that it's basically zero difference between wide open states and mandated areas.
... besides economy, happiness, people wanting to be there, jobs, etc are better in Florida.
So obviously FL is handling covid better than NY and it's not even close.
Again, doesn't matter though. Covid is what people have decided to live with and that's the way it's going to be. There won't be lockdowns, fed Govt mandates for private sectors, etc tried any more. Freedom is winning again. Thank god.
IOC under fire for conditions inside COVID isolation centers
Yes let's do what China does, throw people with COVID basically into prison cells and slop them like pigs.
If they're doing this to olympic athletes --who will undoubtedly communicate conditions to the oustide world-- what are they doing to the average Chinese citizen?
Forget the Chinese. The bar of expectations with them is so low it's a wonder the athletes weren't sent to the fields to pick crops while they waited for their tests.
It seems to me like some complaints were made, and then these complaints were addressed.
It's also hard to take the author seriously when he says the following:
Surely, this organic opinion didn't impact the constant editorializing that was present in the column.
Why? Because you don't agree with it? Does it change the facts on the ground? Maybe diversify your sources if you think China is utopia.