'Convenient Comparisons' - Grass Isn't Always Greener

[AustonMitchWilly]

I hear a lot of convenient comparisons about Clarkson and MacArthur or Grabo, etc.

Stats are in GP, G, A, Pts


Lets compare positionally:

MacArthur - 3.25million - Coming off a 20 pt year.
16 L CLARKE MACARTHUR 36 11 15 26

Raymond - 1million - Coming off a 22 pt year.
12 L MASON RAYMOND 37 11 14 25

So here, we have a push. Contractually, we'd all prefer Raymond. 1m v 3.25m. Better for a trade deadline flip if necessary.


Dave Bolland - Coming off a 14 pt season.
63 C DAVE BOLLAND 15 6 4 10

Mikhail Grabovski- Coming off a 16 pt season.
84 C MIKHAIL GRABOVSKI 33 9 18 27

Grabo is playing great this year. On pace for ~70pts, while Bolland, if he couldve been lucky enough to stay uncut, wouldve been on pace for ~55pts.

Would you prefer Grabo at 70 pts? Would you prefer Bolland at 55, sure well knowing how he is one of the best pests and gritty players in the league?

I'd choose Bolland, clearly he flourishes under RC's system. But still, that one is a toss up for Leaf fans to decide. Also, Bolland is only 15 pts/pace behind, while being a 3C. His character and toughness is lightyears more desirable than Grabo's.


Scrivens vs. Bernier would be a loaded gun considering D-core plays such an influential role on individual goaltender stats, but let's just say I am happy to have Bernier even though I am a Reimer guy.


I don't think Carlyle or Nonis has done a terrible job at all this year. I think we have a great team when healthy, a great core, and I look forward to hopefully making a playoff run and learning from and improving upon our mistakes and mishaps this year!



Just some food for thought, and I look forward to yours! Go Leafs Go.

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[noelllll*]

If they kept Grabo and let Bozak walk I'd be cool with it all

 

[BluPuk*]

Grabo had become 'stale' here. Just like he did in Montreal. Like he will in Washington.

 

[King85Kong]

It shouldn't have been Bolland or Grabo, rather Bozak or Grabo. But what is done is done, we made the mistake, got to move on.
Kadri, Grabo, Bolland down the middle would of been awesome. But Holland inserted for Grabo is good too.

 

[thewave]

the way you havr to compare is money buys talent,

clarkson vs grabo
raymond vs frattin
bolland vs cmac
komarov vs whoever's

so.

downgrade
upgrade
lateral but downgrade for time lost.
downgrade

thats about it. a net downgrade

 

[KuleminFan41]

the way you havr to compare is money buys talent,

clarkson vs grabo
raymond vs frattin
bolland vs cmac
komarov vs whoever's

so.

downgrade
upgrade
lateral but downgrade for time lost.
downgrade

thats about it. a net downgrade

You're comparisons are wrong,It should be by positions

Bolland vs Grabo
Clarkson vs Frattin
Raymond vs Macarthur
Komarov vs ....

 

[cup67]

It shouldn't have been Bolland or Grabo, rather Bozak or Grabo. But what is done is done, we made the mistake, got to move on.
Kadri, Grabo, Bolland down the middle would of been awesome. But Holland inserted for Grabo is good too.

we will sign grabo next summer for 3.5 mil

 

[King85Kong]

we will sign grabo next summer for 3.5 mil

Think that boat has sailed away. Time to move on. We have Holland and Kadri that look capable to fill the top two spots. And hopefully we can re-sign Bolland, good third line centre. Don't think were in a bad spot, future looks alright.

 

[Mess]

If they kept Grabo and let Bozak walk I'd be cool with it all

Cap space

Option 1: Grabovski at $5.5 mil

or

Option 2: Bozak at $4.2 mil + Raymond at $1.0 mil = $5.2 mil

Pick one?

Nonis picked option 2 and it would be the one I would pick also.

 

[The Legend]

Grabo had become 'stale' here. Just like he did in Montreal. Like he will in Washington.

What does this even mean?

 

[King85Kong]

Cap space

Option 1: Grabovski at $5.5 mil

or

Option 2: Bozak at $4.2 mil + Raymond at $1.0 mil = $5.2 mil

Pick one?

Nonis picked option 2 and it would be the one I would pick also.

Lol, way to only put those players and options in it, and dumb it down. More players and moves were involved in the off season. What about Clarkson, Liles, Bolland, Bernier and others?

 

[Mess]

Lol, way to only put those players and options in it, and dumb it down. More players and moves were involved in the off season. What about Clarkson, Liles, Bolland, Bernier and others?

Nonis chose between keeping Grabovski and letting Bozak walk or buying out Grabovski and re-signing Bozak.

Since one option saves him $1.3 mil additional cap it means he could afford to sign another player in this case Raymond at $1.0 mil.

All of this based on letting MacArthur at $3.2 mil walk and away to be able to afford Bolland at $3.2 mil. Nonis decision based on which center to keep was based on having Bolland and Kadri in slots #2 and #3, while Raymond replaces MacArthur and the cap all balances out.

 

[King85Kong]

Nonis chose between keeping Grabovski and letting Bozak walk or buying out Grabovski and re-signing Bozak.

Since one option saves him $1.3 mil additional cap it means he could afford to sign another player in this case Raymond at $1.0 mil.

All of this based on letting MacArthur at $3.2 mil walk and away to be able to afford Bolland at $3.2 mil. Nonis decision based on which center to keep was based on having Bolland and Kadri in slots #2 and #3, while Raymond replaces MacArthur and the cap all balances out.

How about option #3

keep Grabo 5.5, plus Bolland 3.2, plus Raymond 1.0 = 9.7
Minus Bozak 4.2, Minus Clarkson 5.25, Minus Liles 3.5 = 12.95
Saving 3.25

Forgot in option #3 we could buy out Liles with no penalty, and save more money.

What I am saying is that its more complex then "a" or "b" options.

 

[Philkessel]

Clarkson was a terrible signing i think most people can see that but if people think garbo would be on a 70 pt pace here they are crazy he would not of gotten the same offensive opportunity here as he gets in wash he would be lucky if he got 50 pts under carlye

 

[Mess]

How about option #3

keep Grabo 5.5, plus Bolland 3.2, plus Raymond 1.0 = 9.7
Minus Bozak 4.2, Minus Clarkson 5.25, Minus Liles 3.5 = 12.95
Saving 3.25

Forgot in option #3 we could buy out Liles with no penalty, and save more money.

What I am saying is that its more complex then "a" or "b" options.

I've gone the total players OUT verses total players IN analysis with cap consequences here as to what actually happened.

See post this thread : http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=76440819&postcount=211

 

[TieClark]

You're comparisons are wrong,It should be by positions

Bolland vs Grabo
Clarkson vs Frattin
Raymond vs Macarthur
Komarov vs ....

Exactly right... nothing to do with who makes the money and everything to do with what did you lose and what did you replace it with.

 

[King85Kong]

Nonis chose between keeping Grabovski and letting Bozak walk or buying out Grabovski and re-signing Bozak.

Since one option saves him $1.3 mil additional cap it means he could afford to sign another player in this case Raymond at $1.0 mil.

All of this based on letting MacArthur at $3.2 mil walk and away to be able to afford Bolland at $3.2 mil. Nonis decision based on which center to keep was based on having Bolland and Kadri in slots #2 and #3, while Raymond replaces MacArthur and the cap all balances out.

How about option #3

keep Grabo 5.5, plus Bolland 3.2, plus Raymond 1.0 = 9.7
Minus Bozak 4.2, Minus Clarkson 5.25, Minus Liles 3.5 = 12.95
Saving 3.25

Forgot in option #3 we could buy out Liles with no penalty, and save more money.

What I am saying is that its more complex then "a" or "b" options.

I've gone the total players OUT verses total players IN analysis with cap consequences here as to what actually happened.

See post this thread : http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=76440819&postcount=211

Again, its not as simple as all those players in and the others out. We can keep some, get rid of some, and sign/not sign others, with lots of variation of those players. Not a straight swap. Changing who we kept opens other doors. Not sure why it can only be a or b.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Here's a good synopsis why Grabovski played his way out of Toronto:

48 games, 16 points -10
7 Playoff Games 2 points -10
55 games in total 18 points -20 for 5.5M per 5 years = Buyout

73GP, 28 points, -26 totals under Randy Carlyle

When Grabo was a #2C with us, our record was a horrendous 126-144-48.

There is no reason for Leafs to want to pay 5.5M for such a mediocre player. His comments after the year would indicate he was not happy in his role nor playing for this coach. Goodbye and good riddance.

 

[Bluelines]

Grabo had become 'stale' here. Just like he did in Montreal. Like he will in Washington.

It wasn't that he became stale its was that Randy took a 2nd line center who is know for an offence first game, made him play 3rd line shut down role and then judge him as a failure. Imagine if he said to Kessel , yeah I want you to play shutdown minutes for the season.

Randy misused Grabo in his final year.

 

[FerrisRox]

Cap space

Option 1: Grabovski at $5.5 mil

or

Option 2: Bozak at $4.2 mil + Raymond at $1.0 mil = $5.2 mil

Pick one?

Nonis picked option 2 and it would be the one I would pick also.

Option 3: Tell Clarkson's agent that his term and rate are absurd and pass.

Graboski at $5.5 mil + Bozak at $4.2 mil + Raymond at $1.0 mil = better team.

 

[King85Kong]

It wasn't that he became stale its was that Randy took a 2nd line center who is know for an offence first game, made him play 3rd line shut down role and then judge him as a failure. Imagine if he said to Kessel , yeah I want you to play shutdown minutes for the season.

Randy misused Grabo in his final year.

Some people just don't get this. Our so called third line center Grabo has out produced our first line center Bozak every year except last year, while playing less minutes, with less skilled line mates. Switch their spots and there would be no question who is superior.

 

[cyris]

Option 3: Tell Clarkson's agent that his term and rate are absurd and pass.

Graboski at $5.5 mil + Bozak at $4.2 mil + Raymond at $1.0 mil = better team.

Clarkson wasn't Grabo's replacement, Bolland was.
After Bolland came in the choice was Grabo or Bozak. The team chose Bozak.

Why cant or do people refuse to understand this. After Bolland was acquired the team was never going to keep both of Grabs and Bozie. Who ever that capspace was spent on is irrelevant to that fact.

 

[cyris]

It wasn't that he became stale its was that Randy took a 2nd line center who is know for an offence first game, made him play 3rd line shut down role and then judge him as a failure. Imagine if he said to Kessel , yeah I want you to play shutdown minutes for the season.

Randy misused Grabo in his final year.

Grabo didn't start on the 3rd line with Carlyle. He was pushed there. Kadri out played him for the second line roll, and he didn't do anything to push Bozak out of the first line roll.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Clarkson wasn't Grabo's replacement, Bolland was.
After Bolland came in the choice was Grabo or Bozak. The team chose Bozak.

Why cant or do people refuse to understand this. After Bolland was acquired the team was never going to keep both of Grabs and Bozie. Who ever that capspace was spent on is irrelevant to that fact.

Agreed, when Bolland was acquired that was the end of Grabovski in Toronto, even the biggest Grabovski fan would admit Bolland is far better than him in the #3C role.

As for Bozak, he has played very well this year. 16 games, 11 points, +5. He was earning his new contract 1.3 less than 5.5. Nothing wrong with his cap hit considering he plays in all situations. And he has centered Lupul, Kessel, and JVR to their most productive years. He and Bolland have proven to be great fits for our team.

 

[thewave]

You're comparisons are wrong,It should be by positions

Bolland vs Grabo
Clarkson vs Frattin
Raymond vs Macarthur
Komarov vs ....

not really, where you put the talent is irrelevnt. you are trying to match up expected performance vs cost.

if you trade kessel for Staal you are going to conpare the move to the Raymond acquisition lol