Value of: Colorado Offer Sheeting Mark Stone

[Michel Beauchamp]

Go right ahead.

All this does is open Colorado up to the rest of the league for poaching all those kids you have. You reap what you sow.

Examples ?

Did the Flyers suffer for their hostile offer sheet signed by Weber ?

Whistling while walking by the graveyard at midnight, aren't you ?

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Just saying there's he might see an upside to playing for another team.

This has the same merit as me saying that MacKinnon going to pull a Yashin and not play till he's traded for peanuts. Brb, going to start a thread about this.

 

[Hasbro]

This has the same merit as me saying that MacKinnon going to pull a Yashin and not play till he's traded for peanuts. Brb, going to start a thread about this.

Not really since one team has reason for an optimistic outlook and the other doesn't.

 

[tucker3434]

Go right ahead.

All this does is open Colorado up to the rest of the league for poaching all those kids you have. You reap what you sow.

How does it do that?

 

[Roof Daddy]

I agree w/ you, thats outrageously absurd. $4.5-5 million per season sounds reasonable

???
The guy's career PPG avg is .81 (prorates to 67 points in 82 games), scored above a point per game clip last year, is great defensively and a possession beast. And he's got good size and strength.

Would you probably like to have his cap hit come in under 8? Sure, but in the instance of offer sheeting a player, it's not a crazy overpay (which is what you need to do if you want the offer to succeed).

I think the Avs should absolutely do this.

 

[Tripod]

Examples ?

Did the Flyers suffer for their hostile offer sheet signed by Weber ?

Whistling while walking by the graveyard at midnight, aren't you ?

Flyers also OS Chris Gratton and Ryan Kesler.

Yeah....no retribution so far.

 

[Hasbro]

Flyers also OS Chris Gratton and Ryan Kesler.

Yeah....no retribution so far.

Unless you count the collective hissy fit by Canucks fans over the latter.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Not really since one team has reason for an optimistic outlook and the other doesn't.

True, Dorian has been receiving trade requests by every meaningful player since the season ended.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Not really since one team has reason for an optimistic outlook and the other doesn't.

Jeez, Avs fans (or maybe just you) have gotten obnoxiously cocky - so much so that the actual logistics of making this offer sheet totally escapes them.

A ticket off of a team in turmoil might come as a relief.

Lol. Amazing what an 8th place finish + quick playoff defeat will do for you.

If you want Stone, it will cost four 1st rounders. Pure and simple. Before you call foul on this, read the actual rules of an offer sheet.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Players don't go around expecting a career ending injury. If he signs a five year contract he will have his next contract end at 31 and be in line for another big contract.

It makes no sense to sign a 5 year 8.1M contract when Stone can probably get a 7 year deal at a similar AAV though.

If you're gonna toss the 5 year scenario, at least make it realistic. 5 years 10M AAV, which would be two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. Stone has some incentive to sign that because he's probably making an additional 10M above his market value during those 5 years. So he sacrifices 2 or 3 years of term in exchange for an additional 10 million dollars over the next five seasons. Otherwise, he's not sacrificing term if he isn't being compensated with an inflated AAV.

Stone's market value is pretty close to 8M on a 7-8 year type deal already, so why does he sign a 5 year deal at that amount? It just makes no sense other than to manufacture a fantasy where a team can get him for a 1st/2nd/3rd.

Sens also EASILY match 5 years 8M. If they can't match an 8M 5 year deal, even with front loading, that probably means problems are much worse money wise than even the most cynical Senators fans would think. So that's another issue. Stone is setting himself up to be on a bargain contract (term wise) with the Senators, and at the same time he'll have absolutely no trade protection.

It just doesn't make much sense as a scenario.

There are only two scenarios that remotely make sense....

Stone signs 5 years 10M (two 1sts, one 2nd, one 3rd)

Stone signs 7 years 8M-9M (Market value or above market value for Stone so he signs it assuming OTT wasn't originally willing to go that high with him. Unlike a 7.24M x 7 year offer, Stone can confidentially sign thinking the Sens may not match because compensation will be four first rounders.)

Anything else is only possibly if financially things with Ottawa are much worse than anybody thinks, and that we just couldn't swing paying Stone a 10M signing bonus in July.

 

[Canadian Time]

It's simple. It's got nothing to do with retaliation, GMs seldom make these offers for 2 reasons; one is that it artificially raises the contract value of RFAs, even though the Oilers are doing that all on their own. Two is the high price in compensation you have to give up in addition to the high offer price. It never makes sense.

A 5 year offer is ridiculous on the surface, it doesn't have a chance to fly. If you want to have a chance you will need to offer 7 X $9. You see the problem here (obviously many don't), you will cripple your prospect depth and being paying too much for an RFA. Have at it though.

 

[Hasbro]

Jeez, Avs fans (or maybe just you) have gotten obnoxiously cocky - so much so that the actual logistics of making this offer sheet totally escapes them.

We are well more aware that team elected arbitration does stop them, what the actual draft pick compensation levels and that revenge off sheets don't really happen especially from a skinflint like Melnyk.

Yeah, call me crazy for having my doubts about the Senators next season.

 

[Hasbro]

Stone signs 7 years 8M-9M (Market value or above market value for Stone so he signs it assuming OTT wasn't originally willing to go that high with him. Unlike a 7.24M x 7 year offer, Stone can confidentially sign thinking the Sens may not match because compensation will be four first rounders.)

Anything else is only possibly if financially things with Ottawa are much worse than anybody thinks, and that we just couldn't swing paying Stone a 10M signing bonus in July.

Check out the OP. Up to $8.1M the compensation is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Above that and under $10.1M it kicks in another 1st and after that it's 4 1sts. So just make a $8,118,641 AAV offer.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

We are well more aware that team elected arbitration does stop them, what the actual draft pick compensation levels and that revenge off sheets don't really happen especially from a skinflint like Melnyk.

Yeah, call me crazy for having my doubts about the Senators next season.

I called you obnoxiously cocky, actually. Not crazy.

I never mentioned revenge offer-sheets, I don't believe they are a threat whatsoever - nor do they need to be used as a threat. A team that has picked top 10 in six of the last nine seasons + top 4 in four of the past nine seasons should be effectively dissuaded by the prospect of giving up four 1st-rounders to acquire any player.

Check out the OP. Up to $8.1M the compensation is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Above that and under $10.1M it kicks in another 1st and after that it's 4 1sts. So just make a $8,118,641 AAV offer.

Just as I suspected, you don't know the rules. Shocker

An offersheet that is over 5 years in term is measured, for compensation purposes only, on a five-year scale. If you offer Stone $8,118,641m over 6 years, that's 9.74m, approx, for compensation purposes. If you offer Stone $8,118,641 over 7 years, that's 11.365m, approx, for compensation purposes. And if you offer Stone $8,118,641 over 5 years, well, the Sens match that easily.

Any more theories?

 

[Clamshells]

Colorado is real bad for a few years, get hot this year. Team is on the rise! Attractive destination! Your best player wants to play here!
Ottawa is mediocre/somewhat good for a few years, have a bad year. Awful team! Everyone wants out! Rape and pillage time!

Get outta here Col fans. Thought you might have learned after 2014 about single season streaks.

 

[Hasbro]

I called you obnoxiously cocky, actually. Not crazy.

I never mentioned revenge offer-sheets, I don't believe they are a threat whatsoever - nor do they need to be used as a threat. A team that has picked top 10 in six of the last nine seasons + top 4 in four of the past nine seasons should be effectively dissuaded by the prospect of giving up four 1st-rounders to acquire any player.



Just as I suspected, you don't know the rules. Shocker

An offersheet that is over 5 years in term is measured, for compensation purposes only, on a five-year scale. If you offer Stone $8,118,641m over 6 years, that's 9.74m, approx, for compensation purposes. If you offer Stone $8,118,641 over 7 years, that's 11.365m, approx, for compensation purposes. And if you offer Stone $8,118,641 over 5 years, well, the Sens match that easily.

Any more theories?

Fair enough I wasn’t aware of the over 5 rule.

Now the Avs offer 5x$8.1, nothing to sneeze at. Stone can the go to Dorion if he wants more years for that money and tells him that’s what the Avs are offering and they can go from there.

The Sens match, oh drat. However even disrupting Ottawa next year would be a minor victory for the Avalanche since there is a vested interest their failure.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Check out the OP. Up to $8.1M the compensation is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Above that and under $10.1M it kicks in another 1st and after that it's 4 1sts. So just make a $8,118,641 AAV offer.

I think what you're missing is that offer sheets are divided by 5 years regardless of term.

What that means, is the highest in the 1st/2nd/3rd comp bracket a team offer sheeting can offer Mark Stone on a 7 year term is about 7.24M.

Sens match 7 x 7.24 easily.

Stone doesn't sign 5 x 8.1, if he does, the Sens match easily.

The best avenue for a team to steal Stone is probably a 5 year 10M AAV type deal that is heavily front loaded and has a big signing bonus during the lockout year. That would still cost two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Colorado is real bad for a few years, get hot this year. Team is on the rise! Attractive destination! Your best player wants to play here!
Ottawa is mediocre/somewhat good for a few years, have a bad year. Awful team! Everyone wants out! Rape and pillage time!

Get outta here Col fans. Thought you might have learned after 2014 about single season streaks.

Would you like some cheese with your wine?

 

[kerrabria]

I'd imagine that there were a good number of Nordique fans who, ticked off with how the relocation went down, wish nothing but the worst for the Avalanche and had jumped ship to the recently made Ottawa franchise's fanbase.

Wonder how much venom for Denver those Nords/Sens fans would have after this proposal.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I'd imagine that there were a good number of Nordique fans who, ticked off with how the relocation went down, wish nothing but the worst for the Avalanche and had jumped ship to the recently made Ottawa franchise's fanbase.

Wonder how much venom for Denver those Nords/Sens fans would have after this proposal.

Seriously ?

Quite a vivid imagination you've got going ?

A little more realism and I would suggest Hollywood as an option.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Fair enough I wasn’t aware of the over 5 rule.

Now the Avs offer 5x$8.1, nothing to sneeze at. Stone can the go to Dorion if he wants more years for that money and tells him that’s what the Avs are offering and they can go from there.

The Sens match, oh drat. However even disrupting Ottawa next year would be a minor victory for the Avalanche since there is a vested interest their failure.

Nothing to sneeze at, you're right - it's something to grin ear-to-ear at, as the Avs will have delivered Stone, literally signed, stamped and delivered, to the Sens front office with a ridiculously team-friendly contract that we would happily give him ourselves.

If we can get Stone signed to a deal worth 8mil and only need to give him 5 years, we're laughing.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

@HockeyAnalystGenius We need to see one of your proposals man.

#TeamHockeyAnalystGenius

 

[Hasbro]

I'd imagine that there were a good number of Nordique fans who, ticked off with how the relocation went down, wish nothing but the worst for the Avalanche and had jumped ship to the recently made Ottawa franchise's fanbase.

Wonder how much venom for Denver those Nords/Sens fans would have after this proposal.

Could have solved that problem by moving the Devils back here.

 

[HockeyAnalystGenius]

@HockeyAnalystGenius We need to see one of your proposals man.

#TeamHockeyAnalystGenius

Could have solved that problem by moving the Devils back here.

What the hell?

This Thread is 11 Pages Long. It is a Summery Day outside; nice Wind Chill, beautiful Sun, very nice feeling. I am enjoying the May Long Weekend.

 

[Hasbro]

What the hell?

This Thread is 11 Pages Long. It is a Summery Day outside; nice Wind Chill, beautiful Sun, very nice feeling. I am enjoying the May Long Weekend.

The willful ignorance about Colorado hockey history from traditional market fans can be annoying.