Confirmed with Link: [COL/MTL] Daniel Briere for P.A. Parenteau & 5th round pick

[Habs Icing]

Show me a 3rd liner who has 0.78 PPG over the last 3 years. That's easily 2nd line production, you're crazy if you think those are 3rd line numbers.

But then again, you did call Pacioretty a 2nd liner this year

Come and laugh at me when Patches shows up for the playoffs.

 

[Treb]

Come and laugh at me when Patches shows up for the playoffs.

So Vanek isn't a first line player either?

 

[sharks9]

Come and laugh at me when Patches shows up for the playoffs.

So you're sticking to your ridiculous opinion that Pacioretty isn't a first line player?

 

[Habs Icing]

So Vanek isn't a first line player either?

Did he play on the first line for us during the playoffs? That should answer your question.

Look, there are 30 teams in the league so obviously there will be 30 first line right & left wingers and centermen.

But you have to ask yourself how many of them will help you win a cup. My answer is it's not 30.

 

[Saintpatrick*]

Jeese the guy scores 39 goals and is not considered a first line player?

 

[Habs Icing]

So you're sticking to your ridiculous opinion that Pacioretty isn't a first line player?

When he shows up for the playoffs or the American team - in other words when games matter - then I'll change my opinion. I'm not a big Patches fan.

 

[Roulin]

Let's look at it another way. The aim of every team is to win the Cup. We were eliminated in the Conference Finals. We need to improve from our Conference Final exit. Let's look at the Cup winners's right wingers:

Brown, Gaborik Williams, Toffoli/Carter.

Which one of those players can Parenteau knock out of the Kings lineup. None.

So let's go to the Black Hawks:

Hossa, Kane. I won't even argue about the other right wingers. I'll just concede and say Parenteau is a third line right winger on the Hawks.

Let's look at St Louis:

T.J. oshie & Tarasenko. Again I won't quibble about the other right wingers. PAP is 3rd on the blues

Anaheim:

Can Parenteau beat out Perry or Silfverberg. Again No.



If Parenteau is a top 6 winger on the Habs next year, we're not contenders.

Also, Roy has proven he knows a little more about hockey than most of us and he also knows Parenteau a little better than most of us.

IMO you're overrating Silfverberg, Toffoli and Tarasenko based on their youth. Obviously I'd bet on them having better careers than Parenteau, but right now? I'd put PP clearly ahead of Silfverberg and Toffoli, too close to call with Tarasenko.

 

[JLP]

Which of PAP or DB will put up more points (/60) next season?

 

[Hab-a-maniac]

When he shows up for the playoffs or the American team - in other words when games matter - then I'll change my opinion. I'm not a big Patches fan.

Sure sure and when he does that but we still lose you'll question why he didn't score a game winner in OT or why he didn't show enough leadership. It's how it goes in the Canadiens fickle fanbase. Only in Montreal can a guy in 3 seasons score 14 in 37 GP (30 over a full year), 33, a projected 28 and then 39 (in only 73 games) while averaging nearly a point a game and instead of being happy with that, we tear him down for his flaws. No wonder Richer got abused. He scored 50 twice but cause he was streaky and wasn't Lafleur, he got bashed. Just like Habland to exonerate our true untalented guys, bash what good we have and pine for others. We complained for years about lacking a top notch goal scorer, we get one and because his 2nd ever playoff is just average he's mediocre? What do people want? Patrick Kane-like numbers? It's as if Patches scoring would've won us something. Without Price it didn't matter, we weren't winning a Cup even with Patches going Cammalleri a la 2010 (a guy who btw got bashed for being small and defensively porous when here but now is held up as the standard of greatness).

 

[Hope Of Glory]

Did he play on the first line for us during the playoffs? That should answer your question.

Look, there are 30 teams in the league so obviously there will be 30 first line right & left wingers and centermen.

But you have to ask yourself how many of them will help you win a cup. My answer is it's not 30.

That's more the definition of an elite/franchise player. What you're describing is more than just a normal/average first liner.

 

[HabsFanJosh]

Sure sure and when he does that but we still lose you'll question why he didn't score a game winner in OT or why he didn't show enough leadership. It's how it goes in the Canadiens fickle fanbase. Only in Montreal can a guy in 3 seasons score 14 in 37 GP (30 over a full year), 33, a projected 28 and then 39 (in only 73 games) while averaging nearly a point a game and instead of being happy with that, we tear him down for his flaws. No wonder Richer got abused. He scored 50 twice but cause he was streaky and wasn't Lafleur, he got bashed. Just like Habland to exonerate our true untalented guys, bash what good we have and pine for others. We complained for years about lacking a top notch goal scorer, we get one and because his 2nd ever playoff is just average he's mediocre? What do people want? Patrick Kane-like numbers? It's as if Patches scoring would've won us something. Without Price it didn't matter, we weren't winning a Cup even with Patches going Cammalleri a la 2010 (a guy who btw got bashed for being small and defensively porous when here but now is held up as the standard of greatness).

I agree with you. I was pretty pissed off when we let Ryder go the first time. He had one poor season, after scoring 30 goals in back-to-back seasons and we got rid of him. How quickly Habs fans forget. I don't think I was even born, or at least paying attention to hockey the last time the Habs had a 40 goal scorer. Patches almost got that on a line centered by DD, someone who is arguably not a first line center. Plus, we're paying him 4.5 mil for the next 5 years? Who the hell has a 40 goal scorer at that cost? Habs fans should be super excited that Patches has shown that he can consistently score goals, even with a mediocre center. Put him on a line with someone that doesn't get rubbed out during the playoffs, and his numbers will be different. Except we need the rest of our team to produce to win a cup. Look at L.A, it wasn't just one person producing.

 

[sharks9]

When he shows up for the playoffs or the American team - in other words when games matter - then I'll change my opinion. I'm not a big Patches fan.

Remind me again who scored the series-clinching goals for us against Tampa and Boston? Or did those games not matter in your mind.

You're not just not a Pacioretty fan, you're embarrassingly biased against him. He's a top-10 scorer and a top-10 LW, yet you somehow think he's a 2nd liner.

 

[Treb]

Remind me again who scored the series-clinching goals for us against Tampa and Boston? Or did those games not matter in your mind.

You're not just not a Pacioretty fan, you're embarrassingly biased against him. He's a top-10 scorer and a top-10 LW, yet you somehow think he's a 2nd liner.

1st liner win the Conn Smythe

 

[David Suzuki]

which of pap or db will put up more points (/60) next season?

pap imo.

 

[Hab-a-maniac]

I agree with you. I was pretty pissed off when we let Ryder go the first time. He had one poor season, after scoring 30 goals in back-to-back seasons and we got rid of him. How quickly Habs fans forget. I don't think I was even born, or at least paying attention to hockey the last time the Habs had a 40 goal scorer. Patches almost got that on a line centered by DD, someone who is arguably not a first line center. Plus, we're paying him 4.5 mil for the next 5 years? Who the hell has a 40 goal scorer at that cost? Habs fans should be super excited that Patches has shown that he can consistently score goals, even with a mediocre center. Put him on a line with someone that doesn't get rubbed out during the playoffs, and his numbers will be different. Except we need the rest of our team to produce to win a cup. Look at L.A, it wasn't just one person producing.

Well said. I'm not excusing Patches' flaws or his rather disappointing playoff play but he still contributed. IMO he was better than Desharnais, Gionta, Vanek plenty of forwards. Arguably contributed as much as Pleks who was a ghost and defensive failure after the halfway point of our run. Does Patches have room for improvement? Sure! But lots of guys do. But his run gets trade rumours? In what universe does that make sense? He helped get us to the playoffs which has to count for something. He singlehandedly was almost 1/5 of our goal total in the reg. season for god's sake. Ryder gets so much love here but he was worse defensively and even streakier than Patches. Plus Max has twice topped Ryder's career high and Ryder near the end last year had a 2 goals in 37 games stretch. Any Hab, let alone Patches, would get savaged for that.

The grass isn't always greener. I can't wait for the day I hear a "I wish we still had Rene Bourque" line here lol. It's all a "what have you done for me lately?" deal. Eller and Bourque have gotten very little criticism on this board in the off-season thanks to the fresh memory of good playoff runs. But they had crap reg. seasons and were highly inferior to Max. But does that get wiped out cause he had 5 goals, 11 playoff points while they topped his totals in goals and/or points? It shouldn't. Price and Subban are our MVPs but Patches was the one behind them IMO. DD and Max have great chemistry sure, but there are 15-20 other centres in this league Patches could core 40-45 with. He has that good a shot and nose for the net. If he were hurt for a while this team's offense- even with the additions of a rookie and PAP next year- would be popgun at best.

 

[Forsead]

When he shows up for the playoffs or the American team - in other words when games matter - then I'll change my opinion. I'm not a big Patches fan.

Few player are really effective in their first playoff run ever you know ?

 

[habs88]

Never scored more than 20 goals and that makes him top 6. What does Bourque's 3 seasons of 21-27-27 make him? A hall of famer.

He's also 31 and has played only 4 seasons in the NHL. He's a 3rd liner but then you can have whatever asinine expectations you want.

50 point players on our third line? If he puts up 55-60 points this year your going to call him a third liner? A third line player that puts up 55-60 points? What are your second and first liner point production expectations? I need to know

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

Few player are really effective in their first playoff run ever you know ?

and plus... Before this post season, gaborik did nothing in the playoffs... But elite goal scorers can get hot at any moment and the habs have one of the best in the league.

He gets way too much flak cause he's not a PWR FWD... Guess what! He's even more important... A 40 goal threat year in year out with fkn DD as his center

 

[HabsFanJosh]

Well said. I'm not excusing Patches' flaws or his rather disappointing playoff play but he still contributed. IMO he was better than Desharnais, Gionta, Vanek plenty of forwards. Arguably contributed as much as Pleks who was a ghost and defensive failure after the halfway point of our run. Does Patches have room for improvement? Sure! But lots of guys do. But his run gets trade rumours? In what universe does that make sense? He helped get us to the playoffs which has to count for something. He singlehandedly was almost 1/5 of our goal total in the reg. season for god's sake. Ryder gets so much love here but he was worse defensively and even streakier than Patches. Plus Max has twice topped Ryder's career high and Ryder near the end last year had a 2 goals in 37 games stretch. Any Hab, let alone Patches, would get savaged for that.

The grass isn't always greener. I can't wait for the day I hear a "I wish we still had Rene Bourque" line here lol. It's all a "what have you done for me lately?" deal. Eller and Bourque have gotten very little criticism on this board in the off-season thanks to the fresh memory of good playoff runs. But they had crap reg. seasons and were highly inferior to Max. But does that get wiped out cause he had 5 goals, 11 playoff points while they topped his totals in goals and/or points? It shouldn't. Price and Subban are our MVPs but Patches was the one behind them IMO. DD and Max have great chemistry sure, but there are 15-20 other centres in this league Patches could core 40-45 with. He has that good a shot and nose for the net. If he were hurt for a while this team's offense- even with the additions of a rookie and PAP next year- would be popgun at best.

Honestly, there are very few perfect players in the NHL, if any. You can't expect your 30 or 40 goal scorers to be sound defensively and give you maximum compete every night. If they are still managing to score that much, they are, like you said, a fair chunk of the team's total goals. I respected Ryder because he scored goals for us, the same goes for Patches. Hell I'm even happier with Patches because he's shown improvement on the defensive side of things. Montreal has never been deep in scorers, and this tempers my expectations from Eller. I like his play, I just don't think he's gotten the proper chance. The same applies to Bourque, although he really is maddenly inconsistent. He prefers RW, yet never gets played in that position, and he hasn't really been a liability defensively. Sure he's not Cammy, but he's also not toxic to our locker room and costs 2.7mil less. I wish he produced more and was more consistent, but I can't say they he ever got a really good chance at being an offensive force on our team. Plus, loot at his playoff numbers. They aren't bad for someone that you really aren't relying on to be a top-six forward.

 

[habs88]

When he shows up for the playoffs or the American team - in other words when games matter - then I'll change my opinion. I'm not a big Patches fan.

No and it shows reading your comments, also he scored the game winner vs Tampa and boston, If anything he has to better when it doesn't matter and not JUST when it does, so where are you getting this stuff? Also wasn't he injured during his Olympics?(could be mistaken)I agree he has to be better in the playoffs but you my friend are way off base and you should hope that you are just horribly biased against patches or else sadly I can easily say hockey's not for you if you think patches is a second line player and pap is a third liner

 

[Habs Icing]

Many of you look at the goals scored during the regular season and don't bother to look at his game. Let me go completely off the board and give an extreme example.

Yashin had 4 seasons of either 30 or 40 goals and I think two of more than 20. How many of you would choose Yashin over Gallagher?

I'm not saying Patches is another Yashin but he has big holes in his game that really make me want to trade him for a comparable scoring winger but one who has a more complete game.

And it's not one playoff run. It's two playoffs plus a no-show at the Olympics. When it comes to games that matter, Patches game can not cope. For the most part he is a perimeter player who is on a line with two smurfs who are expected to go into the corners to dig out the puck for him. That works during the regular season when teams are pacing themselves but it's a recipe for disaster in the playoffs when teams crank up the intensity of their play.

In a 30 team league he may be a first line winger but you don't win Cups with his style of hockey.

 

[Habs Icing]

No and it shows reading your comments, also he scored the game winner vs Tampa and boston, If anything he has to better when it doesn't matter and not JUST when it does, so where are you getting this stuff? Also wasn't he injured during his Olympics?(could be mistaken)I agree he has to be better in the playoffs but you my friend are way off base and you should hope that you are just horribly biased against patches or else sadly I can easily say hockey's not for you if you think patches is a second line player and pap is a third liner

On Cup winning teams or very strong contenders, yeah, that's where those two should play.

 

[macavoy]

On Cup winning teams or very strong contenders, yeah, that's where those two should play.

Here is a newsflash, Montreal isn't a cup winner or a strong contender.

and if we get rid of the Patches of our world, we never will be.

 

[Ezpz]

On Cup winning teams or very strong contenders, yeah, that's where those two should play.

Are you joking? You realize Patches was 4th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE for goals right?

 

[Le Tricolore]

Yashin had 4 seasons of either 30 or 40 goals and I think two of more than 20. How many of you would choose Yashin over Gallagher?

In their primes? I'd take Yashin over Gallagher for sure.