Proposal: COL/ARI - Large Trade

[John Mandalorian]

Why? He's a low-end 2C but a billion times better than what you already have (which is no 2C).

He's a wing. Saying hes better than Johansen isnt saying much. The Avs would be settling. This is a half pregnant approach. If they're paying the ask here, it needs to be for a legitimate C. Otherwise, just save the assets and go the buy low route and hope for the best. Its not much different than hoping for the best with Scmaltz as a C except the buy low route would be less costly.

Also, I dont follow him avidly but my familiarity with him is that, at least up until fairly recently, he's been very streaky...he scores a lot of points in two weeks and then hibernates for two months. Thats not what the Avs need either. They had too much of that on last years team.

Schmaltz would be the Avs settling and wishing in the left hand and spitting in the right hand while hoping the left hand fills up first.

 

[SR]

Ignoring any cap implicationc, don't see that being very good for the Avs unless Schmaltz is a true upper end 2C.

He’s not, so where do we go from here?

 

[McJedi]

Evans has more value to the Habs than a mid-round pick. Habs still need capable C's to close out the season and to provide some measure of competitiveness to aid in player development. There is no reason to trade Evans and no GM would offer an overpayment that would entice Hughes to pull the trigger.

Its inconceivable.

Fair enough. 4th liners like him are a dime a dozen and acquired at all TDL for middle round picks. You find the sellers and negotiate with them.

May not be the Habs. Could be teams like Anaheim, Arizona, Chicago or Caps. Or others.

 

[McJedi]

3 ways are always fun

Depends on the gender of the 2.

He’s not, so where do we go from here?

our separate ways.

Avs don’t need top nine or specifically top 6 wingers.

 

[rt]

Wouldn’t mind moving schmaltz, but Johansen has negative value…

That’s why he’s in the proposal. The idea would be to buy him out in the off-season.

 

[Oddbob]

In a vacuum I think the values fine. But I personally wouldn’t do it as I don’t really think Schmaltz is the 2C(or a C at all) that fills that hole. And I’d only move Byram for a 2C even if Vej would be a great add in net.

The only question I have, is why are you in a vacuum, and how on earth did you get in there?

 

[dahrougem2]

The Avs do not make this trade. Zero consideration.

Schmaltz functions best as a winger. The Avs do not move arguably their best trade chip without solving their 2nd line center hole.

I would rather add to Byram and overpay to get a legit center in the 23-27 year old range than acquire a guy like Schmaltz.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Tell me who are all the 22-year-old top pairing dmen in the NHL right now.

Sure, Byram is probably not a top pairing dman right now, but he certainly has as much potential as anyone out there to reach it.

He’s had his ups and downs, but his skill is clearly evident and he already has 8 goals this season with virtually 0 PP time.

Its just a little strange to proclaim that someone is on the verge of being a top D in the league then the very next sentence ignoring this and the comparstive positional values of each involved.

Byram is a great player, never said he wasn't. Yes he has great potential to be a top pairing D. Could be one as early as next season even. That can be true, and it can also be true that he could get injured tomorrow and never play again. Obviously the chances of either thing happening aren't equal, but both possibilities exist.

And I've said again and again, personally I would love to have Byram. I would do the initial deal proposed if I was the GM because regardless of value I think and believe that Byram will be a top pairing D. But I'm not the GM. And GMBA has shown he's willing to wait to squeeze out the value from a rock, and that he won't do a deal if he doesn't think it's good value, or if he thinks he can get better.

Byram has only had one season (this one) where he's played a majority of games. Vejmelka's value is low, but we could have likely gotten a first for him previously. Prosvetov was waived by us and has no value. Johansen is a dump.

The only two pieces with any value in this deal are Schmaltz and Byram.

Currently I think Schmaltz has more value than Byram to Colorado. That could change really quickly, but he is or should be a solid top 2C and even if he isn't a center, he's a solid top 6 player in general and certainly better than RyJo.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Byram is a great player, never said he wasn't. Yes he has great potential to be a top pairing D. Could be one as early as next season even. That can be true, and it can also be true that he could get injured tomorrow and never play again. Obviously the chances of either thing happening aren't equal, but both possibilities exist.

And I've said again and again, personally I would love to have Byram. I would do the initial deal proposed if I was the GM because regardless of value I think and believe that Byram will be a top pairing D. But I'm not the GM. And GMBA has shown he's willing to wait to squeeze out the value from a rock, and that he won't do a deal if he doesn't think it's good value, or if he thinks he can get better.

Byram has only had one season (this one) where he's played a majority of games. Vejmelka's value is low, but we could have likely gotten a first for him previously. Prosvetov was waived by us and has no value. Johansen is a dump.

The only two pieces with any value in this deal are Schmaltz and Byram.

Currently I think Schmaltz has more value than Byram to Colorado. That could change really quickly, but he is or should be a solid top 2C and even if he isn't a center, he's a solid top 6 player in general and certainly better than RyJo.

Hes not a C though. That's a leap of faith. His price should be that of a wing. Solid top 6 player is short of what the Avs should be targeting if a deal involves Byram.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Hes not a C though. That's a leap of faith. His price should be that of a wing. Solid top 6 player is short of what the Avs should be targeting if a deal involves Byram.

He has played center plenty of times before even if it's not what he's spent the majority of time doing. But he absolutely can play it even if he's not the 2 way type and is wishy washy on defense. He has played center a decent amount this season, even.

It's a leap of faith for him to be exactly what Colorado is looking for, sure. It's also a leap of faith for Byram to not have any more injury problems and become a top pairing D. You have to take risks to get what you want.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why not just simplify it @rt and just do Byram + for Schmaltz?

 

[John Mandalorian]

He has played center plenty of times before even if it's not what he's spent the majority of time doing. But he absolutely can play it even if he's not the 2 way type and is wishy washy on defense. He has played center a decent amount this season, even.

It's a leap of faith for him to be exactly what Colorado is looking for, sure. It's also a leap of faith for Byram to not have any more injury problems and become a top pairing D. You have to take risks to get what you want.

Pass. This seems like a contrived excuse to get Byram on the Coyotes. They don't appear to be good trade partners.

With 30 other teams, you'll probably have better luck elsewhere turning a W into a D.

Avs mgt has made some bad decisions but this is something they should not be considering.

 

[rt]

Why not just simplify it @rt and just do Byram + for Schmaltz?

No + necessary

I assume Colorado wants to dump Johansen because he sucks and is overpaid. In order to fit Schmaltz under the cap, I guess they probably have to dump RyJo.

I’d do Schmaltz for Byram and RyJo.

 

[MarchessaultCantRead]

No + necessary

I assume Colorado wants to dump Johansen because he sucks and is overpaid. In order to fit Schmaltz under the cap, I guess they probably have to dump RyJo.

I’d do Schmaltz for Byram and RyJo.

The Avs would not.

Sakic has gone on record saying that the only way you acquire top-4 dmen is via the draft/fortunate trades.

Sakic said that teams almost never give up their top-4 dmen, so I don’t see him giving up a 22-year-old Byram unless it solves the Avs 2C issue for the foreseeable future.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Pass. This seems like a contrived excuse to get Byram on the Coyotes. They don't appear to be good trade partners.

With 30 other teams, you'll probably have better luck elsewhere turning a W into a D.

Avs mgt has made some bad decisions but this is something they should not be considering.

Plenty of your fellow Avs fans disagree. Plenty fans in general think that Arizona gets bent in this deal according to the poll.

I'm not one of them, and if the Avs pro scouting doesn't think Schmaltz can be a C on their team, thats the end of the talks. But neither of us know that, so let's not pretend like any outcome is set in stone. Schmaltz could go on to become to the perfect C for the avs and help shore up scoring and contribute greatly to a cup run. Plenty of fans already have noted that there's somewhat of a scoring problem in the middle six, especially with Nuke out. Schmaltz would go a long ways towards helping that issue.

But anyways. I'm not trying to sell you on it. You don't seem like you want to be sold on it anyways.

While I would be perfectly fine trading Schmaltz and it's something we should certainly be looking at, we're not in any rush to trade him and I think we'll do just fine getting value for him back if and when we do. Byram is probably one of the better scenarios that could happen, and the deal makes sense for both teams if Colorado thinks he solves their center issue. We already have a logjam at D of bottom 4 options, so unless we're getting someone who has legitimate top pairing potential there's no point in trading assets away when we have Simashev, Lamoreaux, and others coming up the pipeline with that potential.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Plenty of your fellow Avs fans disagree. Plenty fans in general think that Arizona gets bent in this deal according to the poll.

I'm not one of them, and if the Avs pro scouting doesn't think Schmaltz can be a C on their team, thats the end of the talks. But neither of us know that, so let's not pretend like any outcome is set in stone. Schmaltz could go on to become to the perfect C for the avs and help shore up scoring and contribute greatly to a cup run. Plenty of fans already have noted that there's somewhat of a scoring problem in the middle six, especially with Nuke out. Schmaltz would go a long ways towards helping that issue.

But anyways. I'm not trying to sell you on it. You don't seem like you want to be sold on it anyways.

While I would be perfectly fine trading Schmaltz and it's something we should certainly be looking at, we're not in any rush to trade him and I think we'll do just fine getting value for him back if and when we do. Byram is probably one of the better scenarios that could happen, and the deal makes sense for both teams if Colorado thinks he solves their center issue. We already have a logjam at D of bottom 4 options, so unless we're getting someone who has legitimate top pairing potential there's no point in trading assets away when we have Simashev, Lamoreaux, and others coming up the pipeline with that potential.

Plenty? Almost universally Avs fans have been questioning his viability as a C. And rightfully so. I just re-read the comments. For this reason, its hard to justify comments that it makes sense for both teams.

Why are you talking about what Avs pro scouts are thinking? Was this even mentioned as a trade in the media? Or where did this trade idea in the OP come from? And why the fingerwagging?

 

[Jakey53]

Plenty of your fellow Avs fans disagree. Plenty fans in general think that Arizona gets bent in this deal according to the poll.

I'm not one of them, and if the Avs pro scouting doesn't think Schmaltz can be a C on their team, thats the end of the talks. But neither of us know that, so let's not pretend like any outcome is set in stone. Schmaltz could go on to become to the perfect C for the avs and help shore up scoring and contribute greatly to a cup run. Plenty of fans already have noted that there's somewhat of a scoring problem in the middle six, especially with Nuke out. Schmaltz would go a long ways towards helping that issue.

But anyways. I'm not trying to sell you on it. You don't seem like you want to be sold on it anyways.

While I would be perfectly fine trading Schmaltz and it's something we should certainly be looking at, we're not in any rush to trade him and I think we'll do just fine getting value for him back if and when we do. Byram is probably one of the better scenarios that could happen, and the deal makes sense for both teams if Colorado thinks he solves their center issue. We already have a logjam at D of bottom 4 options, so unless we're getting someone who has legitimate top pairing potential there's no point in trading assets away when we have Simashev, Lamoreaux, and others coming up the pipeline with that potential.

I don't think ANY D in the Coyote's pipeline has the potential of Byram. I also think Schmaltz is exactly what the Av's need, not only for this year but years to come as well. They also get to dump Johansen.

 

[CanadienShark]

The only question I have, is why are you in a vacuum, and how on earth did you get in there?

You said you have one question, but you asked two questions.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don't think ANY D in the Coyote's pipeline has the potential of Byram. I also think Schmaltz is exactly what the Av's need, not only for this year but years to come as well. They also get to dump Johansen.

Of course you do.

 

[McJedi]

Why not just simplify it @rt and just do Byram + for Schmaltz?

Dumping RyJo is missing critical. As in getting a 2C and it doesn’t appear Schmaltz is a center.

 

[Bender]

It's actually a pretty good trade for both sides so kudos to you.

I guess my only question would be does Schmaltz play center or is he mostly a winger ? Where has he played primarily this season/last season ?

After watching schmaltz and the coyotes yesterday, (hadn't seen them in a while) the Avs would decline.

If you're playing Bjugstad at C instead of Schmaltz despite his shortcomings, he must really be poor defensively as a C.

 

[Alienblood]

Byram is a great player, never said he wasn't. Yes he has great potential to be a top pairing D. Could be one as early as next season even. That can be true, and it can also be true that he could get injured tomorrow and never play again. Obviously the chances of either thing happening aren't equal, but both possibilities exist.

And I've said again and again, personally I would love to have Byram. I would do the initial deal proposed if I was the GM because regardless of value I think and believe that Byram will be a top pairing D. But I'm not the GM. And GMBA has shown he's willing to wait to squeeze out the value from a rock, and that he won't do a deal if he doesn't think it's good value, or if he thinks he can get better.

Byram has only had one season (this one) where he's played a majority of games. Vejmelka's value is low, but we could have likely gotten a first for him previously. Prosvetov was waived by us and has no value. Johansen is a dump.

The only two pieces with any value in this deal are Schmaltz and Byram.

Currently I think Schmaltz has more value than Byram to Colorado. That could change really quickly, but he is or should be a solid top 2C and even if he isn't a center, he's a solid top 6 player in general and certainly better than RyJo.

Byram isn't avaliable unless he asks.out which he could.and should. Signing Toews was a mistake