Proposal: COL/ARI - Large Trade

[Perratrooper]

It’s complicated. There’s a division among fans. My hopes are high.


Kesselring has been good. Better than Valimaki. And Dumba had a rough start but has been better. I think he’ll return a 3rd rounder, or so. Stecher has been really good. Maybe third best D on the team. But he’s hurt.

Ideally:

XXXX-XXXX
Moser-Durzi
Valimaki-Kesselring
Stecher

We’re just missing an entire first pairing. Even with two top D, that’s more of an average than great D corps.

Hence the reason why I made this thread. Haha.

That’s fair, i can see how he might be controversial.

In terms of your original package, I think your value is good to great for Colorado, but I have an issue with trading Byram and not addressing the giant hole at center. My understanding is that Schmaltz hasn’t been a true center at any point in his career (so far as I can tell) and Colorado already has great wingers.

 

[PAZ]

I can’t say for sure. It’s been like this his whole career. Is he a C or a W? I think he plays like a C in the O Zone and the neutral zone. And he plays like a W in the D Zone (a Beer league W). So it’s about what you can tolerate. Surrounding cast is a big part of it.

For a while, they had Dvorak taking draws for him and doing the in-zone D defensive work, then when the puck went North they’d switch. That’s what Tocchet seemed to like and it worked pretty good.

Ah, makes sense. Appreciate the write up.

Byram has had even more injury problems and taken more time off than Schmaltz has. I'm a huge fan of his but there's a lot more risk with Byram than there is Schmaltz.

Vejmelka hasn't looked amazing but our defense has sucked all year.

And yes, we are swamped with defenseman. None of them are good, top pairing D, and none of them are solid Defensive D-men, which is our problem- only Stetcher and sometimes Moser play that type of game even remotely.

And yeah, Schmaltz is what he is. But he's still pretty young, entering his prime, and most importantly will be relatively cheap to acquire.

As I said, I would do this in a heartbeat because I love Byram, but I'm pretty sure we could get more, we're taking a 4m deadweight back, Prosvetov is also worthless and would potentially go through waivers at this point.

Byram definitely has value, but I doubt we're going to give this kind of value based on half a season of play.

I would rather just do something like Johansen + Byram for Schmaltz as was proposed by another COL fan in another thread.

Think OP’s offer is what it would take from the Avs’ front office, if Friedman’s rumor of them not wanting to discuss Cutter for Byram 1 for 1 is true.

 

[Jakey53]

I would do this because I think Byram will be one of the best D in the league soon.

But value wise? I don't think it's close. Schmaltz and Vejmelka should fetch more than Byram. I don't know why people think Schmaltz doesn't have value. Near PPG guy on a decent contract. Lot of teams will be happy to grab a guy like that, even if he isn't elite and has his warts, especially defensively. The cost will reflect that.

I also think we're swamped on D, I'd much rather trade 2-3D if we're getting one back.

Have you seen Schmaltz salary? How are we swamped on D? Maybe in quantity, but sure in hell not talent.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Potential doesn't impact value?

Sure it does, but just because I think that doesn't mean it's true or that the league thinks that.

I think Troy Stetcher is Arizona's best defensive defenseman. A lot of my fellow Arizona fans think he's trash and should be catapulted into the sun.

I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm biased on this trade because it involves someone I personally have very high hopes for and think that if the cost to acquire isn't "the moon" than it doesn't really matter what the cost is.

At the same time I think his league value is a lot lower than that, and I think other people have valid opinions about Byram and Schmaltz too.

Would you be more sold if it was Byram, RyJo, and Prosvetov for just Schmaltz and Veggie? No 3rd asset from AZ?

I would prefer to move on from Prosvetov entirely and simplify the deal, Byram + something for Schmaltz with optional additional small pieces on either side.

I also think there's no point in selling low on Vejmelka and buying high on Byram.

 

[rt]

My understanding is that Schmaltz hasn’t been a true center at any point in his career (so far as I can tell) and Colorado already has great wingers.

Not for a full season, no. Not since Chicago.

 

[finkelsteinberg]

It’s complicated. There’s a division among fans. My hopes are high.


Kesselring has been good. Better than Valimaki. And Dumba had a rough start but has been better. I think he’ll return a 3rd rounder, or so. Stecher has been really good. Maybe third best D on the team. But he’s hurt.

I kinda feel like he could return a 3rd too but whoever does that is throwing out a prayer. As we know, he's looked like garbage all season. Maybe if he played with a really responsible partner he could be OK.

 

[rt]

Sure it does, but just because I think that doesn't mean it's true or that the league thinks that.

I think Troy Stetcher is Arizona's best defensive defenseman. A lot of my fellow Arizona fans think he's trash and should be catapulted into the sun.

I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm biased on this trade because it involves someone I personally have very high hopes for and think that if the cost to acquire isn't "the moon" than it doesn't really matter what the cost is.

At the same time I think his league value is a lot lower than that, and I think other people have valid opinions about Byram and Schmaltz too.


I would prefer to move on from Prosvetov entirely and simplify the deal, Byram + something for Schmaltz with optional additional small pieces on either side.

I also think there's no point in selling low on Vejmelka and buying high on Byram.

Like just Schmaltz and a 2nd for Byram and the RyJo dump?

 

[Dead Coyote]

Byram is younger, cheaper and has higher upside. I'd assume the yotes could waive any of the D not named Moser, Durzi and maybeeee Valimaki and they would clear and we could also just send Dermott down.

Than Schmaltz? Yeah, absolutely. He's also a defenseman and has had multiple concussions right? We're kind of comparing two very different players.

Byram would arguably be our best defenseman and inarguably be our best defensive dman, and I'd love to have him. He's exactly the type of defense first d-man we need. But he's still not a true #1 or top pairing D-man, and more than anything what we need is elite talent. I don't think there's a way to realistically acquire that outside of the draft. I'd still be interested in Byram because he has that potential and giving up Schmaltz isn't much of a hit to us in the future, it's mostly trading Vejmelka that I have a problem with, cause I'm pretty sure we can get a lot more for him than...RyJo? Prosvetov?

Like just Schmaltz and a 2nd for Byram and the RyJo dump?

I'd be fine with that.

 

[MarchessaultCantRead]

Than Schmaltz? Yeah, absolutely. He's also a defenseman and has had multiple concussions right? We're kind of comparing two very different players.

Byram would arguably be our best defenseman and inarguably be our best defensive dman, and I'd love to have him. He's exactly the type of defense first d-man we need. But he's still not a true #1 or top pairing D-man, and more than anything what we need is elite talent. I don't think there's a way to realistically acquire that outside of the draft. I'd still be interested in Byram because he has that potential and giving up Schmaltz isn't much of a hit to us in the future, it's mostly trading Vejmelka that I have a problem with, cause I'm pretty sure we can get a lot more for him than...RyJo? Prosvetov?


I'd be fine with that.

Tell me who are all the 22-year-old top pairing dmen in the NHL right now.

Sure, Byram is probably not a top pairing dman right now, but he certainly has as much potential as anyone out there to reach it.

He’s had his ups and downs, but his skill is clearly evident and he already has 8 goals this season with virtually 0 PP time.

 

[finkelsteinberg]

Tell me who all the 22-year-old top pairing dmen out in the NHL right now.

Sure, Byram is probably not a top pairing dman right now, but he certainly has as much potential as anyone out there to reach it.

He’s had his ups and downs, but his skill is clearly evident and he already has 8 goals this season with virtually 0 PP time.

Lets not forget D takes longer to develop so there is upside. It has potential to be a great trade for the Yotes. Even if he doesn't turn out being that great, he'd still be an upgrade on our D.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Sure it does, but just because I think that doesn't mean it's true or that the league thinks that.

I think Troy Stetcher is Arizona's best defensive defenseman. A lot of my fellow Arizona fans think he's trash and should be catapulted into the sun.

I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm biased on this trade because it involves someone I personally have very high hopes for and think that if the cost to acquire isn't "the moon" than it doesn't really matter what the cost is.

At the same time I think his league value is a lot lower than that, and I think other people have valid opinions about Byram and Schmaltz too.


I would prefer to move on from Prosvetov entirely and simplify the deal, Byram + something for Schmaltz with optional additional small pieces on either side.

I also think there's no point in selling low on Vejmelka and buying high on Byram.

Its just a little strange to proclaim that someone is on the verge of being a top D in the league then the very next sentence ignoring this and the comparstive positional values of each involved.

 

[Schemp]

Sure suxs that Ingram is out with an injury... Vejjie ain't going anywhere!

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Depends on if the Avs think he can be a 2C, which is very obviously their biggest need.

Our pro scouts are good but they whiffed huge on the bad fit with RyJo as 2C. He’s too slow.

So suddenly their judgement is called into question.

If he’s just another winger… agree this deal makes no sense for the Avs. Avs have zero need for more wingers. They need a 2C and a 4C.

would Jake Evan’s be of interest as 4C? He does a lot of the defensive work/faceoffs/PK. Has some speed and is finding his instincts a bit as of late. Obvious concussion history. One year left on contract I think

 

[Alienblood]

would Jake Evan’s be of interest as 4C? He does a lot of the defensive work/faceoffs/PK. Has some speed and is finding his instincts a bit as of late. Obvious concussion history. One year left on contract I think

for the Avs yes he would be, what do you think the ask would be ?

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

for the Avs yes he would be, what do you think the ask would be ?

Determining value isn’t my strength mate. I’d assume a 4th would probably be around fair value?

 

[Alienblood]

Determining value isn’t my strength mate. I’d assume a 4th would probably be around fair value?

agreed and hopefully the Avs do it.

 

[McJedi]

would Jake Evan’s be of interest as 4C? He does a lot of the defensive work/faceoffs/PK. Has some speed and is finding his instincts a bit as of late. Obvious concussion history. One year left on contract I think

Evans would be of interest to me if the trade was a mid round pick like you suggested. I'd pull the trigger on that deal.

Byram just put up 4 points in the last two games. 2G+2As and the obvious takeaway is that Byram is playing much better freed from the anchor that is RyJo. RyJo has over 30 more minutes of ice time with Byram than any other Avs player this season. Bednar has badly mismanaged the Avs middle six and middle pair all season. The Avs need to make a move at 2C. Give away that 2024 1st for Henrique and add something else like Olausson or Behrens to dump the RyJo contract on Anaheim.

Because RyJo has killed the production of every guy he's played with on the Avs.

Last night RyJo played a good amount with Toews and Toews had a brutal game. Get Byram away from RyJo and he's a much better player.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Evans would be of interest to me if the trade was a mid round pick like you suggested. I'd pull the trigger on that deal.

Byram just put up 4 points in the last two games. 2G+2As and the obvious takeaway is that Byram is playing much better freed from the anchor that is RyJo. RyJo has over 30 more minties of ice time with Byram than any other Avs player this season.

And RyJo has killed the production of every guy he's played with on the Avs.

Last night he played a good amount with Toews and Toews had a brutal game. Get Byram away from RyJo and he's a much better player.

Evans has more value to the Habs than a mid-round pick. Habs still need capable C's to close out the season and to provide some measure of competitiveness to aid in player development. There is no reason to trade Evans and no GM would offer an overpayment that would entice Hughes to pull the trigger.

Its inconceivable.

 

[AslanRH]

I'm not sure how this become a COL/ARI - Large Trade with a side of Motreal's 4C.
Are we doing a 3way now?

 

[Linds]

I'm not sure how this become a COL/ARI - Large Trade with a side of Motreal's 4C.
Are we doing a 3way now?

3 ways are always fun

 

[John Mandalorian]

I'm not sure how this become a COL/ARI - Large Trade with a side of Motreal's 4C.
Are we doing a 3way now?

 

[SR]

Wouldn’t mind moving schmaltz, but Johansen has negative value, Byram is very injury prone (great player) and prov doesn’t hold much value, if any, at all.

Don’t see this being good for AZ unless Byram stayed healthy.

Schmaltz for Byram straight up?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Wouldn’t mind moving schmaltz, but Johansen has negative value, Byram is very injury prone (great player) and prov doesn’t hold much value, if any, at all.

Don’t see this being good for AZ unless Byram stayed healthy.

Schmaltz for Byram straight up?

Nope. Schmaltz isnt what the Avs need.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Nope. Schmaltz isnt what the Avs need.

Why? He's a low-end 2C but a billion times better than what you already have (which is no 2C).

 

[AslanRH]

Wouldn’t mind moving schmaltz, but Johansen has negative value, Byram is very injury prone (great player) and prov doesn’t hold much value, if any, at all.

Don’t see this being good for AZ unless Byram stayed healthy.

Schmaltz for Byram straight up?

Ignoring any cap implicationc, don't see that being very good for the Avs unless Schmaltz is a true upper end 2C.