Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[WPGChief]

You have to wonder just how much of Morrissey's risk adversion is due to playing with Poolman. He is capable of a lot more then he's doing offensively.

Ehh

2017-19:

2021:

The number of exits per 60 by Morrissey hasn't increased by that much from being with Trouba to now, it's just that instead of being complementary, he's been "the guy" for this season and that last, especially when he's with Poolman or (worse) Beaulieu. And where we can see before where the Jets defencemen were a mix across all axes, they are all solidly below league average in average exit attempts per 60 this year which is very intentional in this system. Though the defence is being "activated" more as some others note, it's mostly entirely in pinches at the bluelines - which is good, but still leaves a lot of holes in an area where the Jets still struggle the most.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

He wasn't at all snippy today. He just cut off Simmons from TO who tried to get him to make a comment that would slag the Leafs' wobbly goaltending situation. Straightforward media management to avoid commenting on opponents and their coaching decisions. The rest of the presser was completely relaxed and friendly. I think it's fans that are getting a bit antsy and reading way too much into these media interactions.

I'll admit I just caught the last few minutes.

 

[Whileee]

Ehh

2017-19:

2021:

The number of exits per 60 by Morrissey hasn't increased by that much from being with Trouba to now, it's just that instead of being complementary, he's been "the guy" for this season and that last, especially when he's with Poolman or (worse) Beaulieu. And where we can see before where the Jets defencemen were a mix across all axes, they are all solidly below league average in average exit attempts per 60 this year which is very intentional in this system. Though the defence is being "activated" more as some others note, it's mostly entirely in pinches at the bluelines - which is good, but still leaves a lot of holes in an area where the Jets still struggle the most.

Not sure if these tracking data capture more recent play. Morrissey is night-and-day better over the past 15 games or so, while Poolman still creates lots of chaos for Morrissey to deal with.

 

[surixon]

Another game and more issues with our breakouts and nz support:

I understand chipping it our when you are pressured hard by the opposition but our team chips it out to no one even when not pressured that aggressively. Our forwards tonight also got caught trying to make aggressive long range passes out of our end through the middle of the ice only for those passes to continually be intercepted by the Leafs inside our blueline causing extended shifts defending. Our forwards on this team has it far too hard wired into their brains to be fancy and go for the risky big plays when simple, quick short puck movement with good support gets the puck out for us and gets us attacking far better then trying to stretch it all the time.

This team just doesn't seem to understand the concept of support very well at all and it isn't just on our breakouts. In the nz half the time we don't attack as a unit and when the opposition traps we move the puck to one or side or the other to an isolated player who is quickly surrounded and is forced to either try to beat a number of players on his own or has to chip as our other forwards aren't providing any kind of relief outlet.

Also if a team is clogging the nz it means they have many players up in the play so if you do a dump there more then likely will only be one player going back to retrieve the puck. Why the heck hasn't Maurice clued into this fact and changed our forecheck against teams that play these kinds of nz systems. If the puck carrier is getting slowed up and forced to dump from the nz, you send your other two forwards in hard and flush out the lone dmen going back to get the puck. You are going to have way more success gaining possession with an aggressive forecheck then sending in one forechecker who doesn't even go in hard like we do.

 

[Whileee]

Tonight's game is a good example of the problems with individual game xG stats as a way of assessing game performance. Forbort crushed Morrissey in xGF%. But I thought Forbort's weaknesses were on full display, leading in part to the Matthews and Marner goals.

 

[bob77]

Tonight's game is a good example of the problems with individual game xG stats as a way of assessing game performance. Forbort crushed Morrissey in xGF%. But I thought Forbort's weaknesses were on full display, leading in part to the Matthews and Marner goals.

The Matthew’s goal was all on Pionk

 

[WolfHouse]

Another game and more issues with our breakouts and nz support:

I understand chipping it our when you are pressured hard by the opposition but our team chips it out to no one even when not pressured that aggressively. Our forwards tonight also got caught trying to make aggressive long range passes out of our end through the middle of the ice only for those passes to continually be intercepted by the Leafs inside our blueline causing extended shifts defending. Our forwards on this team has it far too hard wired into their brains to be fancy and go for the risky big plays when simple, quick short puck movement with good support gets the puck out for us and gets us attacking far better then trying to stretch it all the time.

This team just doesn't seem to understand the concept of support very well at all and it isn't just on our breakouts. In the nz half the time we don't attack as a unit and when the opposition traps we move the puck to one or side or the other to an isolated player who is quickly surrounded and is forced to either try to beat a number of players on his own or has to chip as our other forwards aren't providing any kind of relief outlet.

Also if a team is clogging the nz it means they have many players up in the play so if you do a dump there more then likely will only be one player going back to retrieve the puck. Why the heck hasn't Maurice clued into this fact and changed our forecheck against teams that play these kinds of nz systems. If the puck carrier is getting slowed up and forced to dump from the nz, you send your other two forwards in hard and flush out the lone dmen going back to get the puck. You are going to have way more success gaining possession with an aggressive forecheck then sending in one forechecker who doesn't even go in hard like we do.

That is something when Copp and Ehlers are teamed up - you get way more penetration on the forecheck because they both have speed. Statsny and Wheeler don't have that anymore... Scheif will never be an aggressive forecheckers - he seems to play positional, trying to anticipate and intercept passes or block a lane... I'm assuming that's what he's doing and not just avoiding body contact

 

[Whileee]

The Matthew’s goal was all on Pionk

Well, more on Hellebuyck. But Forbort had a very ineffective pinch.

 

[SUX2BU]

Well, more on Hellebuyck. But Forbort had a very ineffective pinch.

Agreed

I cringe every time he pinches and more ofter than not, the play goes the other way ..... drives me frickin batty ....

 

[Runforthecup]

I am actually starting to think that some people on this board spend too much time talking to each other and get into "group think" mode. Time to start thinking for yourself. Rather than posting your 8000th comment, spend a little time doing your own research and present your own findings.

 

[WPGChief]

I am actually starting to think that some people on this board spend too much time talking to each other and get into "group think" mode. Time to start thinking for yourself. Rather than posting your 8000th comment, spend a little time doing your own research and present your own findings.

This is funny considering coaching in the NHL might be some of the biggest groupthink out there with how much retreading goes on

 

[surixon]

This is funny considering coaching in the NHL might be some of the biggest groupthink out there with how much retreading goes on

Yup, not a lot of new blood or new ideas in NHL front offices. NHL coaches and GMs are almost all former players that were brought up through the same systems. Just a continuous cycle.

 

[Whileee]

Yup, not a lot of new blood or new ideas in NHL front offices. NHL coaches and GMs are almost all former players that were brought up through the same systems. Just a continuous cycle.

Actually, I think there have been some attempts to try new types on managers and coaches, but success has been spotty. Remember when Chayka was being touted as the new genius, and lauded as one of the top GMs in the NHL? Turns out he was a bit of a fraud, and set back the Coyotes by several years. That reinforces the conservatism in selecting senior hockey personnel. There have also been a number of coaching hires from somewhat non-traditional backgrounds, but the record of success has been mixed.

I think that blending some of the important social / motivational aspects of building and managing an NHL team with better use of analytics is more complicated than many imagine. NHL teams are complex organizations with success depending on interacting factors that are not always predictable. This includes motivation and a strong team work ethic and commitment, chemistry in D pairs, F lines, and adapting in games and series. Coaches struggle to figure out how to use data in that equation, even if they want to. Data analysts often don't have the tools or answers to some of the unpredictability in player and team performance.

 

[ps241]

Actually, I think there have been some attempts to try new types on managers and coaches, but success has been spotty. Remember when Chayka was being touted as the new genius, and lauded as one of the top GMs in the NHL? Turns out he was a bit of a fraud, and set back the Coyotes by several years. That reinforces the conservatism in selecting senior hockey personnel. There have also been a number of coaching hires from somewhat non-traditional backgrounds, but the record of success has been mixed.

I think that blending some of the important social / motivational aspects of building and managing an NHL team with better use of analytics is more complicated than many imagine. NHL teams are complex organizations with success depending on interacting factors that are not always predictable. This includes motivation and a strong team work ethic and commitment, chemistry in D pairs, F lines, and adapting in games and series. Coaches struggle to figure out how to use data in that equation, even if they want to. Data analysts often don't have the tools or answers to some of the unpredictability in player and team performance.

Boomer Gordon on XMNHL network was comparing the longest tenured coaches in NFL, the NBA , and the NHL to make the point that Hockey culture is obsessed with coaching change.

Our fan base is more Aligned with how the Oilers turn their head coaches.

Death

Taxes

Every HFBoards team board hates their coach.

 

[surixon]

Actually, I think there have been some attempts to try new types on managers and coaches, but success has been spotty. Remember when Chayka was being touted as the new genius, and lauded as one of the top GMs in the NHL? Turns out he was a bit of a fraud, and set back the Coyotes by several years. That reinforces the conservatism in selecting senior hockey personnel. There have also been a number of coaching hires from somewhat non-traditional backgrounds, but the record of success has been mixed.

I think that blending some of the important social / motivational aspects of building and managing an NHL team with better use of analytics is more complicated than many imagine. NHL teams are complex organizations with success depending on interacting factors that are not always predictable. This includes motivation and a strong team work ethic and commitment, chemistry in D pairs, F lines, and adapting in games and series. Coaches struggle to figure out how to use data in that equation, even if they want to. Data analysts often don't have the tools or answers to some of the unpredictability in player and team performance.

There definitely has been some attempts at it and you are right organizations are very complex. There are ways though to bring in other management and coaching types imo. For one we are not even using a large pool of the coaches out there,, you can't tell me that a number of European coaches wouldn't bring something different to the table but still understand hockey culture.

 

[Whileee]

There definitely has been some attempts at it and you are right organizations are very complex. There are ways though to bring in other management and coaching types imo. For one we are not even using a large pool of the coaches out there,, you can't tell me that a number of European coaches wouldn't bring something different to the table but still understand hockey culture.

I think various NHL teams have brought in European coaches to add to their staffs. Not sure there are examples of any substantial strategy leaps forward, though.

I'm remembering how beloved the cutting-edge Mike Smith was by Jets fans...

 

[WolfHouse]

I think various NHL teams have brought in European coaches to add to their staffs. Not sure there are examples of any substantial strategy leaps forward, though.

I'm remembering how beloved the cutting-edge Mike Smith was by Jets fans...

Draft Russians!!! Just not good Russians!!!

 

[cheswick]

Draft Russians!!! Just not good Russians!!!

Bit harsh.

Zhamnov, Ulanov. Miranov. Khabibulin. Grosek. All played more than 500 games in the NHL. There's no excuse for the Bautin pick. Just abysmal. But some of the criticism of Smith is unwarranted. Like Ulanov played over 700 NHL games and was a 10th round pick. That's just good drafting.

 

[WolfHouse]

Bit harsh.

Zhamnov, Ulanov. Miranov. Khabibulin. Grosek. All played more than 500 games in the NHL. There's no excuse for the Bautin pick. Just abysmal. But some of the criticism of Smith is unwarranted. Like Ulanov played over 700 NHL games and was a 10th round pick. That's just good drafting.

Zhamnov was a home run in the 4th that's for sure...

To be fair, Mike Smith's drafting was horrible across all nationalities... passing on Peter Forsberg and Bure are definite highlights though...

 

[Heldig]

Zhamnov was a home run in the 4th that's for sure...

To be fair, Mike Smith's drafting was horrible across all nationalities... passing on Peter Forsberg and Bure are definite highlights though...

nobody passed on Bure. Though you could blame Smith for not knowing he as draft eligible considering all his Russian contacts.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Ok. Officially done with Maurice after tonight’s game.

 

[Heldig]

As per my new avatar...

19 dangerous scoring chances against?

Ridiculous. Embarrassing.

Rather have a lottery pick than get destroyed in the playoffs.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Paul Maurice coached in the KHL in 2012-13. That counts as our overseas hire.

 

[WolfHouse]

Keefe just has a better system than Maurice and his players have bought in. Sure looks like Scheif and Wheeler have not.

 

[Ducky10]

As per my new avatar...

View attachment 426049

19 dangerous scoring chances against?

Ridiculous. Embarrassing.

Rather have a lottery pick than get destroyed in the playoffs.

If only we had a goalie who could hold us in games.....