Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[Hunter368]

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[SUX2BU]

Hey Maurice, you should have been playing Heinola

 

[AlaskaJet]

I wonder if someone could print out all of these forum posts in triplicate and have a Courier deliver them to Chipman, Chevy and PoMo!!

 

[omegaturk]

Honestly, if any changes are to be made, first should be Huddy being thrown into a taxi after one of the games.

Tens years of very forgetful defensive stats.

 

[surixon]

I'm really sick of our extreme version of the M2M in our hybrid defensive system. There was a play last night where Poolman chases a player who has the puck from the right hash marks all around the back of the net and up to the opposite sides point. This is really unnecessary especially as there were already two Jet players in the vicinity. What ended up happening is that player made a cross crease pass and the Oiler player had a lane to walk in and get a shot due to there being an imbalance of Jet players on the left side.

Our coaches need to place more emphasis on zone defense. Play m2m low ans below the hash marks but once the puck goes high break off the chase leave it to the winger or forward in that zone to pick up the chase.

Was also not a fan of Moe's comments on keeping the reigns tight on our dmen. That definitely explains why we haven't seen more activation and switches in the ozone. Just more old age risk adverse thinking for us.

This team is a better team when we are keeping the puck in the other teams end for long periods of time. That is more difficult when you don't incorporate more low to high cycles or activate the dmen to break down opposing teams defensive schemes.

 

[Channelcat]

Honestly, if any changes are to be made, first should be Huddy being thrown into a taxi after one of the games.

Tens years of very forgetful defensive stats.

It's just,............. unbelievable

 

[JetsUK]

I'm really sick of our extreme version of the M2M in our hybrid defensive system. There was a play last night where Poolman chases a player who has the puck from the right hash marks all around the back of the net and up to the opposite sides point. This is really unnecessary especially as there were already two Jet players in the vicinity. What ended up happening is that player made a cross crease pass and the Oiler player had a lane to walk in and get a shot due to there being an imbalance of Jet players on the left side.

Our coaches need to place more emphasis on zone defense. Play m2m low ans below the hash marks but once the puck goes high break off the chase leave it to the winger or forward in that zone to pick up the chase.

Was also not a fan of Moe's comments on keeping the reigns tight on our dmen. That definitely explains why we haven't seen more activation and switches in the ozone. Just more old age risk adverse thinking for us.

This team is a better team when we are keeping the puck in the other teams end for long periods of time. That is more difficult when you don't incorporate more low to high cycles or activate the dmen to break down opposing teams defensive schemes.

Yeah, confirms what many have seen here from the start of last season or earlier. Also explains the gigantic gaps between forwards and D every time the puck turns over in the OZ. So basically, our forwards flee the DZ and our D flee the OZ, and we are paying a 2+3 and not a 5-man unit. I get it with some D, but JMo and Pionk are mobile enough to get back fast if they have to. Seems like you could script it on a line/unit basis, since Ehlers, KC and PLD, for example, have the wheels to get back and support if required, and Poolman can skate also, as can Beaulieu. Seems like a weird move that kills transition and acts as a pressure valve/release for opponents while clearly not shoring up our D noticeably. Ach.

Would also be interesting to see Ves get a chance on PP2. The kid can protect the puck and make a pass, has a lethal shot, and can get it off quickly. Maybe he will if he can stick in the lineup and contribute for a bit longer. Didn't see much of that line last night but I was skimming since couldn't watch it live.

 

[cbcwpg]

Yeah, confirms what many have seen here from the start of last season or earlier. Also explains the gigantic gaps between forwards and D every time the puck turns over in the OZ. So basically, our forwards flee the DZ and our D flee the OZ, and we are paying a 2+3 and not a 5-man unit. I get it with some D, but JMo and Pionk are mobile enough to get back fast if they have to. Seems like you could script it on a line/unit basis, since Ehlers, KC and PLD, for example, have the wheels to get back and support if required, and Poolman can skate also, as can Beaulieu. Seems like a weird move that kills transition and acts as a pressure move for opponents while clearly not shoring up our D noticeably. Ach.

Would also be interesting to see Ves get a chance on PP2. The kid can protect the shot, has a lethal shot, and can get it off quickly. Maybe he will if he can stick in the lineup and contribute for a bit longer. Didn't see much of that line last night but I was skimming since couldn't watch it live.

If this coach is willing to put Perreault on PP2, then everyone else should get a chance to show what they can do on the PP. But, age and cap hit before skill I guess.

Brings up something I've been curious about. It would be interesting to see a league wide coaching breakdown on player usage ( ice time ) in relation to player cap hit. IE: Are there coaches in this league that set their nightly roster based upon what gives them the highest cap hit with all the players available to them.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Most teams play a support the strong side clearance of the puck off the boards with a center/winger pushing past the D. Ideally the winger who gets that puck has 2 options either he is open and can make an easy outlet to the Center/Winger up the middle or if he is pressured by the D he can slide the puck past on the boards and have that supporting center/winger get the puck.

For some reason the Jets play a passive strong side break out and like to look for the weak side winger streaking or play back to the second D coming up the mid. When it works it works but I find that when it doesn't we really scramble to recover.

Mo preaches D coverage and support in the D zone but I hate his break out. Watching most other teams use the strong side breakout and clearing it easier and watching us try to use the weak side breakout is pretty frustrating. Granted teams like Tampa use the weak side a lot but they have the D to do that we don't anymore, we did when we had Buff etc.. but the team we have now can't do it as well.

Mo's teams always suffered from being 3 line teams and that is happening here. I agree that he needs to use those guys on the 4th line and they all need to kill penalties. There is no reason other then practice why Harkins and Vesa can't be killing penalties both guys have good attributes to be good PKers, ie Long reaches and good skaters.

 

[Whileee]

Most teams play a support the strong side clearance of the puck off the boards with a center/winger pushing past the D. Ideally the winger who gets that puck has 2 options either he is open and can make an easy outlet to the Center/Winger up the middle or if he is pressured by the D he can slide the puck past on the boards and have that supporting center/winger get the puck.

For some reason the Jets play a passive strong side break out and like to look for the weak side winger streaking or play back to the second D coming up the mid. When it works it works but I find that when it doesn't we really scramble to recover.

Mo preaches D coverage and support in the D zone but I hate his break out. Watching most other teams use the strong side breakout and clearing it easier and watching us try to use the weak side breakout is pretty frustrating. Granted teams like Tampa use the weak side a lot but they have the D to do that we don't anymore, we did when we had Buff etc.. but the team we have now can't do it as well.

Mo's teams always suffered from being 3 line teams and that is happening here. I agree that he needs to use those guys on the 4th line and they all need to kill penalties. There is no reason other then practice why Harkins and Vesa can't be killing penalties both guys have good attributes to be good PKers, ie Long reaches and good skaters.

I agree with all of this. The Jets really need to improve their break-outs. Some of that will improve when you bring in better D, but I think their system isn't working for players like Connor and Wheeler that seem to need simpler options. The issue for Connor is that he approaches plays with the puck in his own zone the same as he does in the offensive zone - so he makes softer / riskier plays that are more 50:50. He needs to be harder on those plays. Wheeler needs simpler options, so he doesn't have to process options. When he hesitates and tries to decide what to do, bad things happen.

I completely agree that Maurice needs to rely more on his 4th liners, not only at 5v5 but also on special teams. There's no reason why KVes shouldn't get some time on the PP2 over Perreault or Copp/Lowry. He would be another weapon on the right half wall, instead of having Perreault's muffin shooter there. Also, Harkins would be fine as a PKer. Once PLD gets into the game, you could also use him or Stastny on the PK from time-to-time.

 

[surixon]

I agree with all of this. The Jets really need to improve their break-outs. Some of that will improve when you bring in better D, but I think their system isn't working for players like Connor and Wheeler that seem to need simpler options. The issue for Connor is that he approaches plays with the puck in his own zone the same as he does in the offensive zone - so he makes softer / riskier plays that are more 50:50. He needs to be harder on those plays. Wheeler needs simpler options, so he doesn't have to process options. When he hesitates and tries to decide what to do, bad things happen.

I completely agree that Maurice needs to rely more on his 4th liners, not only at 5v5 but also on special teams. There's no reason why KVes shouldn't get some time on the PP2 over Perreault or Copp/Lowry. He would be another weapon on the right half wall, instead of having Perreault's muffin shooter there. Also, Harkins would be fine as a PKer. Once PLD gets into the game, you could also use him or Stastny on the PK from time-to-time.

Seems to me he's still coaching based on what he wished he had then what he actually has.

 

[Whileee]

Seems to me he's still coaching based on what he wished he had then what he actually has.

I think Maurice has fairly rigid views about roles, and that intersects with his views about experience / risk. I think he "trusts" veteran players more than young players, and tends to overlook their mistakes more readily than young players. Part of that is then giving older / veteran players roles (like on the PK), even if their overall effectiveness in that role is low (hello, Nate Thompson).

But I also think that Maurice tends to think a lot about team dynamics, esprit-de-corps, leadership, etc. He talks about it frequently, both about that issue within games and between games. So I think that part of his penchant for playing vets over more talented young players is sometimes about ensuring that some of the vets involved because he thinks they are key to keeping "the bench right" or the work ethic high. It frustrates me as a fan that wants to watch the young players get bigger roles, but I realize that I don't have a good handle on how the team dynamics / leadership affects team performance. I expect that it is over-emphasized by Maurice, but I don't think it is irrelevant.

 

[surixon]

I think Maurice has fairly rigid views about roles, and that intersects with his views about experience / risk. I think he "trusts" veteran players more than young players, and tends to overlook their mistakes more readily than young players. Part of that is then giving older / veteran players roles (like on the PK), even if their overall effectiveness in that role is low (hello, Nate Thompson).

But I also think that Maurice tends to think a lot about team dynamics, esprit-de-corps, leadership, etc. He talks about it frequently, both about that issue within games and between games. So I think that part of his penchant for playing vets over more talented young players is sometimes about ensuring that some of the vets involved because he thinks they are key to keeping "the bench right" or the work ethic high. It frustrates me as a fan that wants to watch the young players get bigger roles, but I realize that I don't have a good handle on how the team dynamics / leadership affects team performance. I expect that it is over-emphasized by Maurice, but I don't think it is irrelevant.

Oh I get the team dynamic aspect but juat question how big of an impact it has. It would be one thing if we were integrating a bunch of offense first players but our young guys like Appelton and Harkins bust their asses off every shift. Do you really need a hard working vet in Thompson when you have young/better players who already have that commitment and work rate down. Even a more offensive player like Ves is busting his ass every game.

I doubt Thompson who has been away from the team on IR has any impact on that.

 

[truck]

I think Maurice has fairly rigid views about roles, and that intersects with his views about experience / risk. I think he "trusts" veteran players more than young players, and tends to overlook their mistakes more readily than young players. Part of that is then giving older / veteran players roles (like on the PK), even if their overall effectiveness in that role is low (hello, Nate Thompson).

But I also think that Maurice tends to think a lot about team dynamics, esprit-de-corps, leadership, etc. He talks about it frequently, both about that issue within games and between games. So I think that part of his penchant for playing vets over more talented young players is sometimes about ensuring that some of the vets involved because he thinks they are key to keeping "the bench right" or the work ethic high. It frustrates me as a fan that wants to watch the young players get bigger roles, but I realize that I don't have a good handle on how the team dynamics / leadership affects team performance. I expect that it is over-emphasized by Maurice, but I don't think it is irrelevant.

Mo has said he let's his leadership group - most notably Scheifele and Wheeler - run the room. If you let a player coach, to some degree, it limits your options.

DeMelo and Poolman looked more threatening than Wheeler in the offensive zone last night. I have to assume Mo sees this, but he is handcuffed to some degree if docking ice time is off the table.

He just keeps going back to Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler, hoping they will regain the success they had 3 years ago.

I firmly believe that Paul Maurice makes the team significantly worse than they should be. The North Division is terrible, and the Jets are loaded at forward. They may still make some noise come playoff time, but they shouldn't be getting out-chanced the way they are.

 

[ps241]

Interesting exchange of ideas this morning on this page. Well done homies.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The North division is flawed not terrible. All the teams have issues it really depends on the players if they will over come that or not. So far Toronto is playing a more "complete" game then anyone else. Montreal is likely the most "complete" team and I wouldn't want to play them in the 1st round. Our defense is a problem so far and leaves us as a mid level team. Edmonton lacks depth and goaltending. Calgary doesn't have the scoring. Vancouver is going through some problems with its younger players and Ottawa is far too young to do anything yet.

Maurice has his issues but he is likely going to stick with what he believes will win us more games then lose. I would kind of like to see this team in the hands of a Barry Trotz just to see people squirm around here.

 

[None]

Interesting exchange of ideas this morning on this page. Well done homies.

I've never seen so much agreement in one of these threads.

Edit: Kinda spooky

 

[ecolad]

I agree with all of this. The Jets really need to improve their break-outs. Some of that will improve when you bring in better D, but I think their system isn't working for players like Connor and Wheeler that seem to need simpler options. The issue for Connor is that he approaches plays with the puck in his own zone the same as he does in the offensive zone - so he makes softer / riskier plays that are more 50:50. He needs to be harder on those plays. Wheeler needs simpler options, so he doesn't have to process options. When he hesitates and tries to decide what to do, bad things happen.

I completely agree that Maurice needs to rely more on his 4th liners, not only at 5v5 but also on special teams. There's no reason why KVes shouldn't get some time on the PP2 over Perreault or Copp/Lowry. He would be another weapon on the right half wall, instead of having Perreault's muffin shooter there. Also, Harkins would be fine as a PKer. Once PLD gets into the game, you could also use him or Stastny on the PK from time-to-time.

I have to disagree here Whileee. It is hard to conceive of any way to simplify things further for the forwards -it is primarily an issue of positioning and simple execution. It is almost inconceivable to me how Wheeler and Connor as top line forwards struggle so mightily with these basic responsibilities at this juncture. Having said that, I do understand how their job is made more difficult when they (and the D) are often pressured by an aggressive overload forecheck along the walls

 

[TEH FIRST NOEL]

For the most part, this has all been posted already...

Maurice serves as a mediocre coach at most. In general, the jets win in spite of him and his coaching, not because of him and his coaching. His flaws in coaching and as coach are well noted. Some perspectives on here defend him and his coaching fervidly and arbitrarily as well as white knighting him and his coaching, which is settling for mediocrity. If that's what some of you want, have at it. If you troll (e.g. bash) others for disagreeing, so be it.

If the jets go anywhere into the playoffs, it'll just be overachieving in a "Maurice system," which is hardly a "system," but that's the way she goes, boys.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

The North division is flawed not terrible. All the teams have issues it really depends on the players if they will over come that or not. So far Toronto is playing a more "complete" game then anyone else. Montreal is likely the most "complete" team and I wouldn't want to play them in the 1st round. Our defense is a problem so far and leaves us as a mid level team. Edmonton lacks depth and goaltending. Calgary doesn't have the scoring. Vancouver is going through some problems with its younger players and Ottawa is far too young to do anything yet.

Maurice has his issues but he is likely going to stick with what he believes will win us more games then lose. I would kind of like to see this team in the hands of a Barry Trotz just to see people squirm around here.

The thing is, Trotz gets results. Paul doesn't.

It's that simple, I would not squirm if we were winning games and looking like a good team. I don't give a f*** how we play if we get results that look like sustainable winning hockey.

 

[DRW204]

both maurice and chevy need to go imo.

8 years, 1 first round victory enough said. the list of coaches to have this long a leash with this lack of results is extremely short.

 

[tbcwpg]

I have to disagree here Whileee. It is hard to conceive of any way to simplify things further for the forwards -it is primarily an issue of positioning and simple execution. It is almost inconceivable to me how Wheeler and Connor as top line forwards struggle so mightily with these basic responsibilities at this juncture. Having said that, I do understand how their job is made more difficult when they (and the D) are often pressured by an aggressive overload forecheck along the walls

That's part of the problem - the D move the puck to the winger on the wall, and they don't know what to do with the forecheck. So instead of getting it out of the zone, a lot of the forwards will try to make a pass into the middle to the C or other winger coming out of the zone - the issue here is that it's dangerous, and they're doing it inside their own blue line, which increases defensive zone time and makes it much harder to relieve the pressure.

It's part of the reason why I'm not sure putting a d-man like Heinola into the lineup is going to be as effective as we'd like. Sure, he's great at moving the puck, but when the issue is on the receiever's end, moving the puck doesn't matter as much.

 

[Whileee]

The thing is, Trotz gets results. Paul doesn't.

It's that simple, I would not squirm if we were winning games and looking like a good team. I don't give a f*** how we play if we get results that look like sustainable winning hockey.

Look at Trotz' record with Nashville.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Look at Trotz' record with Nashville.

I mean it took them 5 years to make the playoffs but since then he has made the playoffs in 13/16 seasons, and won a cup across 3 different franchises. I think it would be fair to say that is more representative of his results than the first 5 years of an expansion team that was given an awful roster to start.

 

[surixon]

Look at Trotz' record with Nashville.

He started with an expansion team that got far less favorable rules then Vegas. As mentioned remove the the first 5 years and his coaching stats look good.