Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread II

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

And yet, most of you guys blame Maurice for losing against Vegas when MAF posted a .955 save % in Games 2 to 5. I didn’t see a single Maurice critic say, “When MAF is that good, it doesn’t matter the style we play tbh”.

I’ve actually been on the ‘we got goalied’ train for years regarding that series so maybe don’t put words in my mouth?

 

[surixon]

Maurice had a good coaching year in 17-18 and was good for this org prior to that year.

It's the last 3 seasons where things have unraveled and gotten stale.

Coaches have a shelf life and imo hes past his here.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

And in a perfect world, Wheeler would waive his NMC and ask to be left unprotected so he could go through a wall for that man there.

That would be glorious. I'll pop the champagne if that happens!

 

[Channelcat]

And yet, most of you guys blame Maurice for losing against Vegas when MAF posted a .955 save % in Games 2 to 5. I didn’t see a single Maurice critic say, “When MAF is that good, it doesn’t matter the style we play tbh”.

Jets played a perimeter offensive game. The heat map was unimpressive. Maurice was and continues to be one of our biggest liabilities.

 

[fmrdh]

Bit of a hot take here

In regards to how Wheeler / Scheifele are so quick to defend Maurice, perhaps they like him so much because he lets them run the team just as much as himself.

 

[Channelcat]

Bit of a hot take here

In regards to how Wheeler / Scheifele are so quick to defend Maurice, perhaps they like him so much because he lets them run the team just as much as himself.

Yes. Thats how I see it. On teams like Tampa, Mtl, Vegas, NYI the top skill players all play strong defense. Maurice has never demanded enough from his players throughout his "illustrious" career.

 

[Weezeric]

Yes. Thats how I see it. On teams like Tampa, Mtl, Vegas, NYI the top skill players all play strong defense. Maurice has never demanded enough from his players throughout his "illustrious" career.

Id like to see how their defensive play would be affected by playing in front of Poolman and Forbort instead of Hedman and Pietrangelo…

 

[Whileee]

Maurice had a good coaching year in 17-18 and was good for this org prior to that year.

It's the last 3 seasons where things have unraveled and gotten stale.

Coaches have a shelf life and imo hes past his here.

Do you think Maurice getting "stale" coincided with losing 5 of the top 6 D, and having a GM replace them with Beaulieu, Sbisa, Bitetto, Forbort, etc.?

 

[Whileee]

Yes. Thats how I see it. On teams like Tampa, Mtl, Vegas, NYI the top skill players all play strong defense. Maurice has never demanded enough from his players throughout his "illustrious" career.

In 2017/18 the Jets were top 5 in the NHL in expected goals against, with a team of young forwards like Laine, Connor, Scheifele, etc. Those were pretty good results, right?

 

[Whileee]

Maurice had a good coaching year in 17-18 and was good for this org prior to that year.

It's the last 3 seasons where things have unraveled and gotten stale.

Coaches have a shelf life and imo hes past his here.

What is your evidence that a coach has a "shelf life"? Is that with the same team, or is it just that the coach gets stale?

 

[Bigfish]

Do you think Maurice getting "stale" coincided with losing 5 of the top 6 D, and having a GM replace them with Beaulieu, Sbisa, Bitetto, Forbort, etc.?

Maurice got "stale" during the second half of the 18/19 season and has been stale ever since.

 

[surixon]

Do you think Maurice getting "stale" coincided with losing 5 of the top 6 D, and having a GM replace them with Beaulieu, Sbisa, Bitetto, Forbort, etc.?

Things were going off the rails in 18-19 when we had all of them. So no I don't think it's all due to the talent level on defense.

 

[Whileee]

Maurice got "stale" during the second half of the 18/19 season and has been stale ever since.

So, he got "stale" when the roster lost Buff, Ehlers and Morrissey. Okay...

 

[Whileee]

Things were going off the rails in 18-19 when we had all of them. So no I don't think it's all due to the talent level on defense.

This is just false.

In 2018/19 the Jets started the season a bit slow but by late December in the 2018/19 season the Jets were 4th in the NHL in points % and they were positive in shot metrics and improving in shot metrics.

By early January they lost Buff (for the rest of the season) and Ehlers (for over 20 games), and then they lost Morrissey for the last 20 games. So they played the last quarter of the season without Buff and Morrissey.

Here is where the Jets stood on December 31 2018, just before the long-term injuries to Buff and Ehlers.

 

[Whileee]

I've shared this analysis before. I guess people will have to decide whether they think the Jets' decline was because the coaching suddenly went "stale", or injuries and losses to their D had a major effect.

Basically, I think that a coach getting "stale" for some fans and media is different than a coach getting "stale" for the team.

 

[surixon]

This is just false.

In 2018/19 the Jets started the season a bit slow but by late December in the 2018/19 season the Jets were 4th in the NHL in points % and they were positive in shot metrics and improving in shot metrics.

By early January they lost Buff (for the rest of the season) and Ehlers (for over 20 games), and then they lost Morrissey for the last 20 games. So they played the last quarter of the season without Buff and Morrissey.

Here is where the Jets stood on December 31 2018, just before the long-term injuries to Buff and Ehlers.

View attachment 447517

Every team has to deal with injuries, most don't self destruction due to then. Sorry but I disagree with the conclusion that it was just due to injuries that we stunk.

Pittsburgh was without Malkin most of last year and had a number of other significant injuries but the rest of their team buckled up and the team played extremely well and finished high in their division.

 

[Whileee]

Every team has to deal with injuries, most don't self destruction due to then. Sorry but I disagree with the conclusion that it was just due to injuries that we stunk.

Pittsburgh was without Malkin most of last year and had a number of other significant injuries but the rest of their team buckled up and the team played extremely well and finished high in their division.

So, your point is that the quality of a roster isn't relevant for assessing coaching because there are a few examples of teams that have weathered the loss of injured players? That's just anecdotal.

The reality for the Jets is that Buff was their #1D in all respects, and losing him was strongly associated with the Jets' decline.

Your hypothesis is that the Jets' coaching just went "stale" all of a sudden, and it was a coincidence that it happened at the same time that the Jets' D was decimated.

I just think that's a simplistic approach, and I don't think that you could expect a D like the one the Jets have rolled out for the last couple of seasons could have been "coached up" to a much higher level.

 

[surixon]

So, your point is that the quality of a roster isn't relevant for assessing coaching because there are a few examples of teams that have weathered the loss of injured players? That's just anecdotal.

The reality for the Jets is that Buff was their #1D in all respects, and losing him was strongly associated with the Jets' decline.

Your hypothesis is that the Jets' coaching just went "stale" all of a sudden, and it was a coincidence that it happened at the same time that the Jets' D was decimated.

I just think that's a simplistic approach, and I don't think that you could expect a D like the one the Jets have rolled out for the last couple of seasons could have been "coached up" to a much higher level.

I think it's a number of factors including caliber of roster. But can you honestly say this has been a team that has been even remotely close to dialed in most of the past three years?

They have spurts here and there where they dial it up and look good but for the most part they look disengaged and complacent to me.

If they played with commitment and dedication that they showed against Edmonton a good portion of the time I wouldn't be questioning coaching on that front even if the metrics weren't great.

But we get inconsistent efforts, poor adherence to systems, lazy flying of the zone for offense etc most of theblast three years so yeah I think things are stale. We don't have a team that is very engaged most of the time.

 

[Whileee]

I think it's a number of factors including caliber of roster. But can you honestly say this has been a team that has been even remotely close to dialed in most of the past three years?

They have spurts here and there where they dial it up and look good but for the most part they look disengaged and complacent to me.

If they played with commitment and dedication that they showed against Edmonton a good portion of the time I wouldn't be questioning coaching on that front even if the metrics weren't great.

But we get inconsistent efforts, poor adherence to systems, lazy flying of the zone for offense etc most of theblast three years so yeah I think things are stale. We don't have a team that is very engaged most of the time.

I think there are persistent issues in terms of play style, but I'm less convinced that it's because players have "checked out". I think they have been trying to figure out how to win games.

I'm open to coaching change, but I don't mind seeing how the team responds with a better defense on the roster.

 

[surixon]

I think there are persistent issues in terms of play style, but I'm less convinced that it's because players have "checked out". I think they have been trying to figure out how to win games.

I'm open to coaching change, but I don't mind seeing how the team responds with a better defense on the roster.

Well we will likely be giving Maurice that opportunity barring him wanting to leave for Seattle and the Jets granting it.

Let's hope he can make the most of it as I want the team to play good hockey and win.

 

[Whileee]

Well we will likely be giving Maurice that opportunity barring him wanting to leave for Seattle and the Jets granting it.

Let's hope he can make the most of it as I want the team to play good hockey and win.

While many seem focused on coaching, I am more focused on how the Jets fix their gaping holes on D this off-season. If they don't overhaul the D, I doubt that any coach will be able to turn this team into a contender.

 

[surixon]

While many seem focused on coaching, I am more focused on how the Jets fix their gaping holes on D this off-season. If they don't overhaul the D, I doubt that any coach will be able to turn this team into a contender.

Well if there is no plan to properly fix it then both Maurice and Chevy can be sent packing.

Both are going to need to play a role in fixing it.

Chevy needs to get JoMo a partner and Maurice needs to use the young talent we have in the system to round out the rest of the spots.

If once again we are stuck playing crap all around the lineup over kids then I'd like to clean house.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I think we should pluck the best player from each team and then wonder, “Where would that coach/team be without their best player? HUH???”

I mean clearly, no one should consider a team’s best player as part of a team, right?

You mean like the year the Lightning won the Stanley Cup without Stamkos, or this year's Islanders without their captain Anders Lee? Yeah, those teams just suck without those top players.

 

[Whileee]

Well if there is no plan to properly fix it then both Maurice and Chevy can be sent packing.

Both are going to need to play a role in fixing it.

Chevy needs to get JoMo a partner and Maurice needs to use the young talent we have in the system to round out the rest of the spots.

If once again we are stuck playing crap all around the lineup over kids then I'd like to clean house.

Agree.

 

[Guffman]

You mean like the year the Lightning won the Stanley Cup without Stamkos, or this year's Islanders without their captain Anders Lee? Yeah, those teams just suck without those top players.

Stamkos and Lee are not the best players on their team rofl.