Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread II

[cbcwpg]

Johnston said he’d heard some suggestions of Paul Maurice possibly being a fit in Seattle, based on his history with Francis in Carolina.

Johnston clearly states, however:
“I don’t have any informations to suggest he won’t be coaching the Winnipeg Jets next year, but there’s been some whispers of that around that maybe there could be a fit,” said Johnston.

***

Hey who knows... If Seattle really wants him maybe they send some money the Jets way to buy him out of his contract ....

 

[Guffman]

Meh, regular season right around expectations. Winning a round was a bit unexpected.

That being said, the reason it happened was because of Connor Hellebuyck, not Maurice. Did you watch the second round?

You can absolutely take Connor Hellebuyck's play away from Paul Maurice, he doesn't get any credit for it. If you think the Jets are intentionally sucking at 5v5 because they have a good goaltender, I mean I don't know what to tell you lol.

This in from The Athletic’s Hockey Show podcast, host Pierre Lebrun asking Edmonton Oilers coach Dave Tippett about playoff style hockey and the difficulty of getting a more skilled team like the Oilers to adapt: “Winnipeg played more of a skill game during the year but the last two weeks of the year they changed their whole game to play a solid, solid defending style, and they have an excellent goaltender and the goaltender makes a difference.
“Montreal and Winnipeg, both those teams played the same in the both series where you play just tight, tight defence, you rely on your goaltender, which is one of the strengths of your team and you find enough goals to win, and it frustrates a skill team. They feel like they should be doing better, scoring more and, in the end, in that Montreal game, Carey Price is excellent in Game Seven and Montreal finds a way to win.”

Yep, successfully changing the way the team plays for the playoffs in order to win had nothing to do with Maurice and the coaching staff. Hellebuyck would have won us the series if we just continued with our regular season style of play lmao.

Look, I obviously expect Hellebuyck to play like Hellebuyck and he is a big part of our success but to completely dismiss successful coaching in that series is beyond absurd.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

This in from The Athletic’s Hockey Show podcast, host Pierre Lebrun asking Edmonton Oilers coach Dave Tippett about playoff style hockey and the difficulty of getting a more skilled team like the Oilers to adapt: “Winnipeg played more of a skill game during the year but the last two weeks of the year they changed their whole game to play a solid, solid defending style, and they have an excellent goaltender and the goaltender makes a difference.
“Montreal and Winnipeg, both those teams played the same in the both series where you play just tight, tight defence, you rely on your goaltender, which is one of the strengths of your team and you find enough goals to win, and it frustrates a skill team. They feel like they should be doing better, scoring more and, in the end, in that Montreal game, Carey Price is excellent in Game Seven and Montreal finds a way to win.”

Yep, successfully changing the way the team plays for the playoffs in order to win had nothing to do with Maurice and the coaching staff. Hellebuyck would have won us the series if we just continued with our regular season style of play lmao.

Look, I obviously expect Hellebuyck to play like Hellebuyck and he is a big part of our success but to completely dismiss successful coaching in that series is beyond absurd.

We won 3 OT games with one of the best performances by a goaltender in a series in a long time.

We then had the worst performance in a series in advanced stat tracking history.

Claiming we somehow became this awesome team in playoffs is insanity.

 

[surixon]

What Does Paul Maurice's Future Look Like in Winnipeg? - The Hockey News on Sports Illustrated

A lot of similar arguments, sense of complacency, not enough urgency and the results just aren't there.

 

[Guffman]

We won 3 OT games with one of the best performances by a goaltender in a series in a long time.

We then had the worst performance in a series in advanced stat tracking history.

Claiming we somehow became this awesome team in playoffs is insanity.

Yeah, low event games in the playoffs tend to go to OT. We won. You’d feel better if they were 6-2 games or something?

I agree that the Habs series was miserable. I did not like it all even factoring the injuries. That is why I stated afterwards that I was neutral on the matter of a coaching change. That said, I give credit where credit is due unlike some people.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Yeah, low event games in the playoffs tend to go to OT. We won. You’d feel better if they were 6-2 games or something?

I agree that the Habs series was miserable. I did not like it all even factoring the injuries. That is why I stated afterwards that I was neutral on the matter of a coaching change. That said, I give credit where credit is due unlike some people.

Would I feel better if we dominated a team 4 times 6-2 than if we won on the back of a goalie standing on his head? f*** yes lol is that a serious question?

What credit is there to give, we got lucky from a hot goalie in the first round. We didn't outplay Edmonton in any significant manner. We played a tighter style that paid off because our goalie was as good as it gets. When Helle is that good, it doesn't really matter the style we play tbh.

 

[cbcwpg]

A lot of similar arguments, sense of complacency, not enough urgency and the results just aren't there.

People on this forum and people in Winnipeg could claim a bias against Maurice, but when people on the "outside" let's say see the same thing hockey fans in Winnipeg are concerned about... there is something there.

 

[Whileee]

Would I feel better if we dominated a team 4 times 6-2 than if we won on the back of a goalie standing on his head? f*** yes lol is that a serious question?

What credit is there to give, we got lucky from a hot goalie in the first round. We didn't outplay Edmonton in any significant manner. We played a tighter style that paid off because our goalie was as good as it gets. When Helle is that good, it doesn't really matter the style we play tbh.

Did you expect the Jets to beat the Oilers, especially without Ehlers for the first couple of games?

What about the Habs without DeMelo and Scheifele?

The point is that this was not a good roster, and taking away top players made them worse. Is that coaching? I'm not sure.

But I don't see anyone in Colorado looking to fire Bednar after the Avs were crushed by Vegas.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Did you expect the Jets to beat the Oilers, especially without Ehlers for the first couple of games?

What about the Habs without DeMelo and Scheifele?

The point is that this was not a good roster, and taking away top players made them worse. Is that coaching? I'm not sure.

But I don't see anyone in Colorado looking to fire Bednar after the Avs were crushed by Vegas.

If you had have told me that Helle would put up something like 9 goals saved above expected before the series, than yes I would have.

I expected the Jets to not be completely and utterly dominated by the Habs.

Colorado and the Jets are not even comparable and you know it. Colorado has 2 years of being a dominant team by nearly all metrics. The Jets have been crap except for goaltending. I don't know what is so hard to grasp.

 

[Weezeric]

If you had have told me that Helle would put up something like 9 goals saved above expected before the series, than yes I would have.

I expected the Jets to not be completely and utterly dominated by the Habs.

Colorado and the Jets are not even comparable and you know it. Colorado has 2 years of being a dominant team by nearly all metrics. The Jets have been crap except for goaltending. I don't know what is so hard to grasp.

Which team had the vezina candidate again? The Avs torched the league by playing an uptempo, offensive game and got destroyed in the playoffs when things tighten up. The Habs brought in Chiarot and Edmundson for their top 4 and are three wins away from the finals..

 

[Whileee]

If you had have told me that Helle would put up something like 9 goals saved above expected before the series, than yes I would have.

I expected the Jets to not be completely and utterly dominated by the Habs.

Colorado and the Jets are not even comparable and you know it. Colorado has 2 years of being a dominant team by nearly all metrics. The Jets have been crap except for goaltending. I don't know what is so hard to grasp.

The Isles scored 6 more goals than expected vs the Pens and 6 more goals than expected vs the Bruins. So, was it Trotz' coaching or just good luck?

This excessive focus on cumulative expected goal metrics in a series is misleading. Series are played one game at a time. xG measures can be highly unreliable in small samples.

I haven't noticed many giving the Jets credit for winning the 5v5 xG battle vs. the Blues in 2018/19, so can we at least be consistent when applying this standard?

 

[Whileee]

If you had have told me that Helle would put up something like 9 goals saved above expected before the series, than yes I would have.

I expected the Jets to not be completely and utterly dominated by the Habs.

Colorado and the Jets are not even comparable and you know it. Colorado has 2 years of being a dominant team by nearly all metrics. The Jets have been crap except for goaltending. I don't know what is so hard to grasp.

Avs' roster is much better than the Jets'. We're discussing coaching, and specifically playoff results and coaching.

Take Makar, Toews and Graves from the Avs roster and replace them with Poolman, Forbort and Stanley and how do you think they fare?

 

[winnipegger]

The last 4 games of the season made it clear just how bad Forbert, Poolman, Benn and Stanley were. It's not even the right way to say it because those players were being asked to play way above their abilities. Poolman should never see top pairing minutes. The Jets really lacked a sustained break out from their own zone. Good breakout = good speed = good offense. Was the lack of good puck movement on the back end because of Maurice? Not sure. imo the players just weren't good enough. That's on the GM and no one else.

 

[Guffman]

Would I feel better if we dominated a team 4 times 6-2 than if we won on the back of a goalie standing on his head? f*** yes lol is that a serious question?

What credit is there to give, we got lucky from a hot goalie in the first round. We didn't outplay Edmonton in any significant manner. We played a tighter style that paid off because our goalie was as good as it gets. When Helle is that good, it doesn't really matter the style we play tbh.

And yet, most of you guys blame Maurice for losing against Vegas when MAF posted a .955 save % in Games 2 to 5. I didn’t see a single Maurice critic say, “When MAF is that good, it doesn’t matter the style we play tbh”.

 

[tbcwpg]

Well of course that is his rational, doesn't necessarily mean it is the correct form of action to take.

The data seems to indicate that it didn't address what it was supposed to. It's all about opportunity costs, we paid a significant cost offensively for minimal if any defensive gains with his system.

Certainly, I mean I understand the thinking in making the switch but it was apparent it wasn't working long ago. I don't think he has another idea right now.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Johnston said he’d heard some suggestions of Paul Maurice possibly being a fit in Seattle, based on his history with Francis in Carolina.

Johnston clearly states, however:
“I don’t have any informations to suggest he won’t be coaching the Winnipeg Jets next year, but there’s been some whispers of that around that maybe there could be a fit,” said Johnston.

***

Hey who knows... If Seattle really wants him maybe they send some money the Jets way to buy him out of his contract ....

And in a perfect world, Wheeler would waive his NMC and ask to be left unprotected so he could go through a wall for that man there.

 

[Ducky10]

Which team had the vezina candidate again? The Avs torched the league by playing an uptempo, offensive game and got destroyed in the playoffs when things tighten up. The Habs brought in Chiarot and Edmundson for their top 4 and are three wins away from the finals..

If that’s why you’ve decided they lost. There are many other factors in their loss than the perceived failure of their uptempo offensive game, it’s a convenient narrative to blame it on that though.

You can have Chiarot and Edmundson, I’ll take the Avs blue line all day, every day.

 

[Ducky10]

And yet, most of you guys blame Maurice for losing against Vegas when MAF posted a .955 save % in Games 2 to 5. I didn’t see a single Maurice critic say, “When MAF is that good, it doesn’t matter the style we play tbh”.

Here I am.

 

[Duke749]

Here I am.

Same

 

[tbcwpg]

And yet, most of you guys blame Maurice for losing against Vegas when MAF posted a .955 save % in Games 2 to 5. I didn’t see a single Maurice critic say, “When MAF is that good, it doesn’t matter the style we play tbh”.

I don't think Maurice was the problem in the Vegas series but is a problem now

 

[Neuf]

And yet, most of you guys blame Maurice for losing against Vegas when MAF posted a .955 save % in Games 2 to 5. I didn’t see a single Maurice critic say, “When MAF is that good, it doesn’t matter the style we play tbh”.

This is me, for sure. Out-coached and exhausted from Nashville, though that second one is a harder sell after the Habs series

 

[LowLefty]

If that’s why you’ve decided they lost. There are many other factors in their loss than the perceived failure of their uptempo offensive game, it’s a convenient narrative to blame it on that though.

You can have Chiarot and Edmundson, I’ll take the Avs blue line all day, every day.

You're right - there's always more to it -
Same sort of discussions take place when we discuss the HABs series -
Most of the discussion focuses on what we were without (Scheif and Demelo) but it's really much more than that.

We didn't have have a top 6 center -
PLD was not good for whatever reason - but he was not helping us over come Scheifs absence.
So no centers to help drive production and our top wingers floundered -
Copp is moved up (and he's not top 6) so our shut down 3rd is not as effective.
Demelo out and in comes what's his name - and we were already bad back there.
The 4th line doesn't play because we are always behind - not that they produce but they spread out the minutes
Helle is average
We are exposed as a team with a lot of flaws and not enough heart to win playoff hockey. Or maybe they were content in beating the OIL - and the long break between series didn't help in keeping their head in it. Pick your poison. Oh, and maybe it's coaching

I've heard more discussion around how our coach failed at making the necessary "adjustments" (you know, schemes and stuff) rather than the impact of the above -
Anyway, I'm down a rabbit hole - very little to do with our post

 

[surixon]

You're right - there's always more to it -
Same sort of discussions take place when we discuss the HABs series -
Most of the discussion focuses on what we were without (Scheif and Demelo) but it's really much more than that.

We didn't have have a top 6 center -
PLD was not good for whatever reason - but he was not helping us over come Scheifs absence.
So no centers to help drive production and our top wingers floundered -
Copp is moved up (and he's not top 6) so our shut down 3rd is not as effective.
Demelo out and in comes what's his name - and we were already bad back there.
The 4th line doesn't play because we are always behind - not that they produce but they spread out the minutes
Helle is average
We are exposed as a team with a lot of flaws and not enough heart to win playoff hockey. Or maybe they were content in beating the OIL - and the long break between series didn't help in keeping their head in it. Pick your poison. Oh, and maybe it's coaching

I've heard more discussion around how our coach failed at making the necessary "adjustments" (you know, schemes and stuff) rather than the impact of the above -
Anyway, I'm down a rabbit hole - very little to do with our post

Well its not easy to replace all the players, but I don't disagree that we may need a shakeup in the locker room as well. It comes back to what appears to be a complacent attitude among some of our players. The video on the article seemed to think our players needed a fire lit under their collective asses and I don't disagree, problem is I don't see Maurice as the one being able to do it. He seems to chumy with this group now.

Easiest thing is to switch the coach and see if that gets this group back engaged and hungry. If that doesn't work then we need to shake up the leadership core by removing some letters or moving some players out.

 

[Ducky10]

Coaching has a lot to do with executing a system, talent has a lot to do with how well a system is executed.

 

[10Ducky10]

Maurice had a tough roster to coach in the 2nd round. As soon as we lost Scheif and arguably more importantly, DeMelo, I knew we weren't moving on from that round.
Serioulsy, Forbort as a 2LHD, Poolman playing in the 1RHD spot, a rookie in Stanimal and Benn trying to move faster than molasses...Scotty Bowman would have had trouble coaching that D corps.
Scheif's loss was felt but I think DD's loss had WAY more of an impact on that series.
We have absolutely nobody to play the right side if Pionk or DD go down.
Chevy needs to get some help on the back end this off season and he knows it. I am confident he will bring in some talent for our D corps.
Even Maurice mentioned how thin the D was last year.
JMo, Pionk, and DeMelo will make the team out of TC and depending on who Maurice has to work with, I think Stanimal only sees about 40-50 games.
I see Slamberg starting on the Moose and moving up sometime during the season if he keeps improving.
I'd give NSH Copper and a 1st at the draft for a re-signed Eklund.
JMo Eklund Stanimal/Heinola would be a good left side.
Connor Murphy on the right side wouldn't be bad. Poolman or Kovs as a 4RHD?

JMo, Eklund, Stanimal, Heinola, Pionk, DD, Murphy and Poolman is a significant upgrade to the D corps.
Not sure what the Hawks would want for Murphy? He only has one year left on his deal at 3.85m.