*Closed* 16 years of Champions Bracket [FINAL FOUR] - 2. COLORADO 2022 vs. 3. DETROIT 2008

[The Red Line]

I don't know if you watched those Red Wings teams, but they were going to interfere, and the refs were going to let them do it

Ah the Eddio O school of ignorance. Haven't heard this one in a while.

I'm guessing your team did a lot of losing to the Wings back then if you can only credit their success to reffing, and still bitter 15 years after the fact.

 

[JaegerDice]

Ah the Eddio O school of ignorance. Haven't heard this one in a while.

I'm guessing your team did a lot of losing to the Wings back then if you can only credit their success to reffing, and still bitter 15 years after the fact.

Ah yes, the 'subtle interference' schtick.

Funny how it disappeared as soon as the Blackhawks did the whole 'monkey see, monkey do' routine and copied all the same accidentally-on-purpose picks, and 'sorry-didn't-mean-to-impede-your-path-to-the-puck' practices themselves.

Which, for the record, they absolutely did. The only years they didn't were 2013 and 2014, when the whole team was so damn fast they didn't need to. Then in 2015, when the desperately needed to slow down an insanely fast Lightning squad in the Finals, all that shit came back out out of the toollbox.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Ah the Eddio O school of ignorance. Haven't heard this one in a while.

I'm guessing your team did a lot of losing to the Wings back then if you can only credit their success to reffing, and still bitter 15 years after the fact.

No, they were an incredibly talented team who were also aided by the refs turning a blind eye to interference and stick infractions. Lidstrom and Datsyuk in particular.

 

[The Red Line]

No, they were an incredibly talented team who were also aided by the refs turning a blind eye to interference and stick infractions. Lidstrom and Datsyuk in particular.

Boohoo. You've been crying about this for 15 years now? Get over it bud, there's a whole world out there, you don't need to obsess about the 2008 Red Wings anymore. I release you from the spell.

 

[x Tame Impala]

This is one of those times when the eye test and analytics come to the same conclusion. Datsyuk controlled the ice every time he was on it during that period, didn't matter who the opposition was.

Really loved watching him and Zetts during those years.

Yup even as a Hawks fan it was easy to love watching those two play. Datsyuk was easily my favorite non-Hawk to watch for a few years. Zetterberg soured on me with his nonsense in the 2013 series but other than that he was a special player. Just did everything real well. Kinda like if Hossa was a natural center.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Boohoo. You've been crying about this for 15 years now? Get over it bud, there's a whole world out there, you don't need to obsess about the 2008 Red Wings anymore. I release you from the spell.

No, just pointing out what was a well-known fact at the time. And no tears here, thankfully my team was able to overcome the Wings and the refs to win in 7 games. Sure sounds like you have a little guilty conscience though, it's OK to share your feelings with us.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Detroit.

As good as MacKinnon, Makar, and company are offensively, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg were exactly the type of 2-way guys that could make them minus players for a series.

Crosby, Malkin, and Hossa was a heck of a trio and 08 Detroit made that Pittsburgh team and everyone else in the NHL chase the puck around that year.

Detroit outshot opponents by 11 shots per game during the regular season and 13 shots per game during the playoffs. The term “puck possession” became much more widely used in hockey talk and used by other up and coming teams (Chicago) as a direct result of those Detroit teams.

Add in Osgood playing the best hockey of his life and Detroit was a complete team.

Fun fact to exit on: speedster Darren Helm, who was still clocked this season during game play at the same top speed as Makar and MacKinnon, played more minutes per game for Colorado this year than he did for 08 Detroit when he was even faster. He was an absolute spark plug for Detroit that spring but that team was so deep that him and Hudler played on the 4th line.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Going with Detroit literally just because of Datsyuk.

Analytics weren't a thing back then in conversations but we have the data and if you go back and look at what he was doing, he broke hockey. The Red Wings were on a powerplay when he was on the ice.

View attachment 578760

He was too good for the NHL at his peak.

We tried to tell all of you at the time!

I’m just glad that advanced stats are now much more appreciated and go back to 07-08, because many of us Detroit fans knew we were watching something special at the time.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

No, they were an incredibly talented team who were also aided by the refs turning a blind eye to interference and stick infractions. Lidstrom and Datsyuk in particular.

Lol I’m glad that the others quickly brought up Eddie O and his “subtle interference” that he loved talking about during Detroit games.

If you want to argue that Detroit was great and smart at getting into lanes without taking penalties, go for it. But don’t make up something that’s just so blatantly false in regards to Datsyuk and stick infractions. His stick work was impeccable. You don’t constantly lead the league in takeaways while winning multiple Byngs because of a league wide reffing conspiracy. You do it because your stick work is at an all time level. You can go on YouTube right now and watch many of his clean takeaways if you need a reminder.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Lol I’m glad that the others quickly brought up Eddie O and his “subtle interference” that he loved talking about during Detroit games.

If you want to argue that Detroit was great and smart at getting into lanes without taking penalties, go for it. But don’t make up something that’s just so blatantly false in regards to Datsyuk and stick infractions. His stick work was impeccable. You don’t constantly lead the league in takeaways while winning multiple Byngs because of a league wide reffing conspiracy. You do it because your stick work is at an all time level. You can go on YouTube right now and watch many of his clean takeaways if you need a reminder.

You can have great stickwork and also get away with a lot, they aren't mutually exclusive. It's not a conspiracy, he got a reputation as a great defensive player so the refs gave him a ton of leeway, plus he played for the Ref Wings.

Bringing up a highlight video as some sort of evidence isn't worthy of a response. They only show successful plays.

 

[theVladiator]

With quite the shift in the NHL. I do not think Detroit would be able to keep up with Colorado speed if the game is played by 2022 rules. I do not think Detroit makes it to the finals in 2022.

On the other hand, if the game is played by 2008 rules, half of Colorado team ends up on IR, mostly with concussions. Also doesn't even make it to the finals.

 

[nbwingsfan]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team was not built for.

Probably by having a top 3 two way C of all time and a top 5D of all time on the team?

 

[nbwingsfan]

No, just pointing out what was a well-known fact at the time. And no tears here, thankfully my team was able to overcome the Wings and the refs to win in 7 games. Sure sounds like you have a little guilty conscience though, it's OK to share your feelings with us.

Well known fact? You know facts have proof yes?

Let’s see them.

 

[norrisnick]

With quite the shift in the NHL. I do not think Detroit would be able to keep up with Colorado speed if the game is played by 2022 rules. I do not think Detroit makes it to the finals in 2022.

On the other hand, if the game is played by 2008 rules, half of Colorado team ends up on IR, mostly with concussions. Also doesn't even make it to the finals.

I mean these teams aren't from lifetimes apart. Helm played on both and the faster one was on the '08 team. The '08 team is smart and skilled enough to adapt to any rule set.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

You can have great stickwork and also get away with a lot, they aren't mutually exclusive. It's not a conspiracy, he got a reputation as a great defensive player so the refs gave him a ton of leeway, plus he played for the Ref Wings.

Bringing up a highlight video as some sort of evidence isn't worthy of a response. They only show successful plays.

You’re flat out providing misinformation.

I watched nearly every game of his career. He didn’t take penalties despite having one of the most active sticks because he had a reputation with the refs. He didn’t take penalties because he didn’t take penalties and his stick work was clean as a whistle. You’re out here attempting to sell conspiracy theories and it’s embarrassing.

If you actually knew what you were talking about then Zetterberg is the player who you would be talking about with “subtle interference.” He’s the forward on Detroit who was best at using his body and stick in a way that toed the line between clean and penalty. And fortunately for us, he knew what that line was and knew how to use it in a way that didn’t called very much. His shadowing reputation speaks to this.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You can have great stickwork and also get away with a lot, they aren't mutually exclusive. It's not a conspiracy, he got a reputation as a great defensive player so the refs gave him a ton of leeway, plus he played for the Ref Wings.

Bringing up a highlight video as some sort of evidence isn't worthy of a response. They only show successful plays.

And your evidence is…. What exactly ?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Ah yes, Nick Lidstrom, known of course for his hooking and interference /s

 

[theVladiator]

I mean these teams aren't from lifetimes apart. Helm played on both and the faster one was on the '08 team. The '08 team is smart and skilled enough to adapt to any rule set.

There are limits to adapting, and we do not have to be lifetimes apart for the NHL rule enforcement to be significantly different. And it is.

Ultimately GMs adapt their rosters to make most advantage and mitigate difficulties imposed by the ways rules are implemented. Wings in 2008 were built to adapt to that set of rules, just like Avs in 2022 are built to adapt to the rules of today.

 

[newfy]

I mean these teams aren't from lifetimes apart. Helm played on both and the faster one was on the '08 team. The '08 team is smart and skilled enough to adapt to any rule set.

Yeah I dont get how this is even really coming into this discussion. They cant handle Colorados speed, but they could fairly easily handle a young Crosby and Malkin in their prime pretty handedly?

Do we really think Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom didnt play against fast players back then? This isnt 1980, and they werent the ones lining up on the slower fourth liners we saw back then. Stars could still skate lol what is this

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Ah the Eddio O school of ignorance. Haven't heard this one in a while.

I'm guessing your team did a lot of losing to the Wings back then if you can only credit their success to reffing, and still bitter 15 years after the fact.

Nah they absolutely interfered a lot and set tons of pick plays. That's where the penguins learned how to do it.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Ah yes, Nick Lidstrom, known of course for his hooking and interference /s

Good thing he has a good PR team to sell him as "the perfect human" because 15 years ago it was pretty well known that the guy got away with more than almost anyone in the league. For the record he certainly wasn't a dirty player or likely to injure someone.

 

[norrisnick]

Good thing he has a good PR team to sell him as "the perfect human" because 15 years ago it was pretty well known that the guy got away with more than almost anyone in the league. For the record he certainly wasn't a dirty player or likely to injure someone.

I mean, if he's playing below the penalty threshold, it's not really getting away with it. He's just smart enough to know where the line is. During the lockout the league distributed videos of Lidstrom's play to highlight what would no longer be legal. He won three consecutive Norris trophies after the lockout because he found the new line and sat there.

It's like saying Lidstrom is getting away with speeding for going 2mph over the limit but bitching because they get called for doing 15-20 over. Find the line of enforcement and stay there.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I mean, if he's playing below the penalty threshold, it's not really getting away with it. He's just smart enough to know where the line is. During the lockout the league distributed videos of Lidstrom's play to highlight what would no longer be legal. He won three consecutive Norris trophies after the lockout because he found the new line and sat there.

It's like saying Lidstrom is getting away with speeding for going 2mph over the limit but bitching because they get called for doing 15-20 over. Find the line of enforcement and stay there.

Lidstrom's speed limit was a few mph higher than pretty much every other player though. He would routinely go 85 mph when other guys got busted going 75.

 

[norrisnick]

Lidstrom's speed limit was a few mph higher than pretty much every other player though. He would routinely go 85 mph when other guys got busted going 75.

That is so far out of the realm of reality... ok.

At least stay with the narrative of subtle.

 

[The Red Line]

Good thing he has a good PR team to sell him as "the perfect human" because 15 years ago it was pretty well known that the guy got away with more than almost anyone in the league. For the record he certainly wasn't a dirty player or likely to injure someone.

You've done nothing but lie and cry in this thread. It is pathetic. Stop embarrassing yourself.