*Closed* 16 years of Champions Bracket [FINAL FOUR] - 2. COLORADO 2022 vs. 3. DETROIT 2008

[Tufted Titmouse]

A matchup to make early 2000's hockey fans giddy - Avs vs Wings

Hank and Dats vs Mack and Rants

Lidstrom vs Makar

Rafalski vs Toews

Osgood vs Kuemper

Franzen vs Nischukin

Hudler vs Kadri

So many big matchups, what a series this would be.

DETROIT 2008						COLORADO 2022
Player	GP	G	A	PTS		Player	GP	G	A	PTS
Henrik Zetterberg	22	13	14	27		Cale Makar	20​	8​	21​	29​
Pavel Datsyuk	22	10	13	23		Mikko Rantanen	20​	5​	20​	25​
Johan Franzén	16	13	5	18		Nathan MacKinnon	20​	13​	11​	24​
Niklas Kronwall	22	0	15	15		Gabriel Landeskog	20​	11​	11​	22​
Jiri Hudler	22	5	9	14		Valeri Nichushkin	20​	9​	6​	15​
Brian Rafalski	22	4	10	14		Nazem Kadri	16​	7​	8​	15​
Mikael Samuelsson	22	5	8	13		Devon Toews	20​	5​	10​	15​
Nicklas Lidström*	22	3	10	13		Artturi Lehkonen	20​	8​	6​	14​
Tomas Holmström	21	4	8	12		Bowen Byram	20​	0​	9​	9​
Valtteri Filppula	22	5	6	11		J.T. Compher	20​	5​	3​	8​
Brad Stuart	21	1	6	7		Andre Burakovsky	12​	3​	5​	8​
Kris Draper	22	3	1	4		Josh Manson	20​	3​	5​	8​
Darren Helm	18	2	2	4		Andrew Cogliano	16​	3​	3​	6​
Dallas Drake	22	1	3	4		Darren Helm	20​	2​	3​	5​
Dan Cleary	22	2	1	3		Erik Johnson	20​	1​	4​	5​
Darren McCarty	17	1	1	2		Logan O'Connor	17​	1​	3​	4​
Brett Lebda	19	0	2	2		Alex Newhook	12​	0​	4​	4​
Mark Hartigan	4	0	1	1		Samuel Girard	7​	1​	2​	3​
Andreas Lilja	12	0	1	1		Nico Sturm	13​	0​	2​	2​
Kirk Maltby	12	0	1	1		Darcy Kuemper	16​	0​	1​	1​
Chris Chelios*	14	0	0	0		Nicolas Aube-Kubel	14​	0​	0​	0​
Dominik Hasek*	4	0	0	0		Pavel Francouz	7​	0​	0​	0​
Chris Osgood	19	0	0	0		Jack Johnson	13​	0​	0​	0​
Player	SV%	GAA	SO	GSAA		Player	GP	SV%	GAA	GSAA
Chris Osgood	0.93	1.55	3	6.9		Darcy Kuemper	16​	0.9​	2.57​	-4.3​
Dominik Hasek*	0.89	2.91	0	-2.4		Pavel Francouz	7​	0.91​	2.81​	-1.1​

Final Four (Chi 2010 not confirmed winner yet)

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[dmac7719]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team was not built for.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team is not built for.

It's a good point, but Detroit was also much heavier, and much better checkers than Colorado faced. Lidstrom, Hudler, Zetts and Dats had the IQ and positioning to cancel out some of that speed.

I don't think Colorado really faced any teams that were stifling like Detroit was.

Also, Kuemper (-4.3 GSAA) vs Osgood (6.9 GSAA) is a pretty big mismatch.

 

[norrisnick]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team was not built for.

By not ever giving up the puck? The Wings puck possession was otherworldly that season and you can't skate faster than the puck.

 

[McJedi]

Avs would have won this. But would have been a fun series.

 

[norrisnick]

On one note, I do love how Helm comes full circle in this poll.

 

[Rengorlex]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team was not built for.

I think the Avs win straigth up in a time machine situation. But you have to adjust for the era.

 

[Master P]

Hasek was their back up so the wings would have a good chance.

 

[newfy]

Franzen would put up ~10 goals against Colorado and win the series

 

[norrisnick]

Franzen would put up ~10 goals against Colorado and win the series

You think this is only going 4 games?

 

[Spender]

Franzen would put up ~10 goals against Colorado and win the series

Too true. Franzén was Mario Lemieux when he played the Avs.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The other Final 4 matchup is up - CHI 2010 vs COL 2022

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team was not built for.

You're right, in a vacuum 2022 Avs would clobber them. But against their peers 2008 Detroit was probably a bit more dominant.

 

[J bo Jeans]

You hear it all the time on spittin chiclets when they ask former players what they think of the league now. Its just so much faster, even compared to just a decade ago.

In a vacuum I think the 08' Wings would have trouble containing the Avs.

Relative to peers the Avs won more games in the season and in the playoffs made easier work of their opponents. Not to mention how they mostly dominated the back to back champs in the cup finals.

 

[Eltuna]

These are the two most dominant possession cup winners since the stats started getting tracked. Very tough to compare these two as they played so different, East/West vs North/South play styles. Despite this a lot of similarities, great defences, goaltending that had a lot of doubters (although Osgood performed a lot better), hall of fame level players scattered throughout, etc.

Detroit did struggle a bit with fast teams at that time as evidenced by the 2009 finals, Avs struggle more with really heavy teams like the 2012 Kings or 2011 Bruins.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

On one note, I do love how Helm comes full circle in this poll.

14 year gap - pretty cool.

 

[Machinehead]

Going with Detroit literally just because of Datsyuk.

Analytics weren't a thing back then in conversations but we have the data and if you go back and look at what he was doing, he broke hockey. The Red Wings were on a powerplay when he was on the ice.

He was too good for the NHL at his peak.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

How in the world does the '08 Red Wings team deal with Colorado's speed. It was overwhelming for teams in an environment where every team is trying to push the limits to their teams skating, this Detroit team was in a time where teams weren't really looking to do this. Colorado just plays a type of game that this Wings team was not built for.

I don't know if you watched those Red Wings teams, but they were going to interfere, and the refs were going to let them do it

 

[norrisnick]

I don't know if you watched those Red Wings teams, but they were going to interfere, and the refs were going to let them do it

I think you're confusing them with the other top team from the West of that time, Anaheim. Their strategy was pretty much commit a penalty on every shift knowing full well that the refs weren't going to call one every shift. And then the refs would call ticky-tack BS on the opposing team so as not to look like they are playing favorites with unbalanced PP opportunities.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I think you're confusing them with the other top team from the West of that time, Anaheim. Their strategy was pretty much commit a penalty on every shift knowing full well that the refs weren't going to call one every shift. And then the refs would call ticky-tack BS on the opposing team so as not to look like they are playing favorites with unbalanced PP opportunities.

Definitely not getting confused, the Ref Wings had their own set of rules. The rules in general were more tightly enforced from 05-10, at least for the 29 other teams. There weren't teams like the Kings or Bruins winning cups because they cheated as a strategy.

 

[norrisnick]

There is no obligation for the defensive player to concede ice to an offensive player. There is however an obligation to not hook, hold, or obstruct them. The Wings found the line and parked themselves right on the edge of it. Not their fault other teams couldn't.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Going with Detroit literally just because of Datsyuk.

Analytics weren't a thing back then in conversations but we have the data and if you go back and look at what he was doing, he broke hockey. The Red Wings were on a powerplay when he was on the ice.

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He was too good for the NHL at his peak.

This is one of those times when the eye test and analytics come to the same conclusion. Datsyuk controlled the ice every time he was on it during that period, didn't matter who the opposition was.

Really loved watching him and Zetts during those years.

 

[Machinehead]

This is one of those times when the eye test and analytics come to the same conclusion. Datsyuk controlled the ice every time he was on it during that period, didn't matter who the opposition was.

Really loved watching him and Zetts during those years.

It's really rare to see that much production with legitimate Selke defense. You have to cheat at least a bit to hit your highest offensive potential.

Not that I would change anything about Datsyuk as he was so effective overall, but imagine the staggering totals he puts up if he treated defense as secondary.

 

[norrisnick]

It's really rare to see that much production with legitimate Selke defense. You have to cheat at least a bit to hit your highest offensive potential.

Not that I would change anything about Datsyuk as he was so effective overall, but imagine the staggering totals he puts up if he treated defense as secondary.

Z did a lot of heavy lifting defensively on that line. It was a very good balance where Pavel did more defensively in the offensive and neutral zones to regain possession in transition, but IMO Z did more in the defensive zone and PK. The more 'traditional' defensive areas. Perfect duo in that regard.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Z did a lot of heavy lifting defensively on that line. It was a very good balance where Pavel did more defensively in the offensive and neutral zones to regain possession in transition, but IMO Z did more in the defensive zone and PK. The more 'traditional' defensive areas. Perfect duo in that regard.

I remember Z being absolutely glued to a young, offensively peaking Crosby, and completely shutting him down. Was a sight to behold.