Next year in Rochester should be very entertaining with all the young talent that's going to be descending here. I'm very excited about a long playoff run this year and hopefully a Cup next year.
Prospect Info: Cliff Pu (2016, 69th) – '18-19: Traded to Carolina
- Thread starter Woodhouse
- Start date
Husko
Registered User
Next year in Rochester he will score at a significant lesser pacer and will tumble down everyone's prospect boards as they wonder why an AHL rookie can't replicate his junior production. See: Nicholas Baptiste (153 points in 118 games his last two seasons in juniors; 28 points in 62 games his first season in the AHL).
When the reality of pro hockey starts to take the luster off? Indeed. Pu has a lot of parallels with Baptiste including the speed and production and that both are probably better off as depth guys than 1st or 2nd liners.
Husko
Registered User
Agreed. Obviously they have differences. Baptiste strikes me as more scorer while Pu is more set up man. Baptiste is more two way and grit while Pu is more skill and scoring. But yeah, lots of similarities in draft pedigree, junior production, and blazing speed, and yes, projection.
Ethan Edwards
Registered User
Same. Not a knock on Baptiste’s 2-way chops, but it’s far more Pu’s bailiwick even going strictly on Jr comparisons. I’m also not saying Pu is the superior prospect (I like Baptiste), necessarily, but there’s more variety in Pu’s toolbox. I’m a sucker for players who are those all-situations guys. Add the size/speed and faceoff acumen and it makes for a very intriguing prospect. Can he carry it into the pros? If so, at what level? Those are the questions.
I'd disagree, Baptiste was known as a defensive beast. That was a big reason why Erie picked him up, not to play with McDavid (because he did not except on PP), but to anchor the PK. He also anchored the checking line on the U18 winning team. I'd say more equivalent, in at least as far as what they had shown by that time and what skills they bring to the table.
Cliff Pu
Lists Pu as weak defensively for the next level.
Ethan Edwards
Registered User
That’s a terrible assessment on the Dobber site, even when looking at the assessment dates. Not the first time I’ve said that. And with Pu in particular, I’ve noticed an inexplicable need for some to be really hyper-critical. Maybe I’m missing tons of red flags, but I see him as a more solid prospect than most. Far from a lock, but he has all the tools for a quality 3rd liner.
Baptiste was known as a 2-way beast. He was a speedy winger with pivot experience who could add just that element to Erie’s line-up. I’ve seen both a lot at the Jr level and I’ve never come away thinking Baptiste was the better defensive player, while also acknowledging his own defensive prowess. Could Pu be more physical at this or the next level? Absolutely, plus there are other things that give me pause. But to project him as too defensively weak for the NHL seems grossly overstated and does another disservice to a player who has proven everyone wrong after every criticism he’s received after slow starts and scoring droughts. If his 2-way game doesn’t look to translate, he never should’ve been drafted...by anyone, at least not in the 3rd. It’s not his offense that looks more likely to carry over.
In the games where I've seen Pu in person the coach puts him out in every defensive situation and he's played very well. I haven't seen him make any glaring defensive mistakes.
He might have to be more of a defensive specialist to have a long NHL career and I see no reason why he couldn't.
He might have to be more of a defensive specialist to have a long NHL career and I see no reason why he couldn't.
I saw a lot of baptiste in junior, particularly his run with Erie.
He was a very good on the wing, but I wouldn’t call him a shutdown guy at all. He had a ton of speed in junior, just short of mcdavid and back checked very well and played with a lot of grit and speed.
But his spatial awareness and stick skills defensively were not great. He succeeded much more with his physicality than with his d acumen.
Pu, in much less views so take it or leave it, is much more active with his stick and positioning. If you notice in the nhl, ror and Reinhart both are like swordsmen in puck battles. That’s a skill and mindset that very few players ever have or master. Pu strikes me as a guy headed in that direction in a way baptiste never did and doesn’t in the pros.
You've seen them both much more at that level than I did/have but I always felt much of Baptiste's defensive "prowess" came from being a tenacious skater. Whereas I see Pu as being more active in lanes and with his stick.
If you watch Baptiste at the NHL level he chases the play a lot because of the way he played at a younger age.
As someone who heavily watches both nhl and mlb prospects, almost all good prospects are on the path to star-level production ... until they aren’t. Usually AHL in hockey and AA in baseball. It’s how much of their production they retain. And it’s beyond stat-watching and production that is used to predict who can do it.
So Pu and baptiste (and eric locke!) may all have similar production, but it’s tough to say what’s gonna happen next. Hopefully pu can be a middle six scorer but I wouldn’t hope for anything more.
So Pu and baptiste (and eric locke!) may all have similar production, but it’s tough to say what’s gonna happen next. Hopefully pu can be a middle six scorer but I wouldn’t hope for anything more.
My pipe dream center spine for the 19-20 season...
Eichel
Mittelstadt
Pu(a decent 2 way center chipping in 35-40 points a year)
Malone(perfect 4th liner)
ROR traded for top 4 blue line help or a top 6 winger... and a 1st round pick
Eichel
Mittelstadt
Pu(a decent 2 way center chipping in 35-40 points a year)
Malone(perfect 4th liner)
ROR traded for top 4 blue line help or a top 6 winger... and a 1st round pick
Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
I haven't had time to watch any CHL this season, can someone give me a run-down on the things he needs to work on to be an NHL contributor?
Kingston Frontenacst @KingstonFronts -
Brahaney from the point on the power play! Rasanen and Nichol get the assists.
Nyman converts on the back end of the double minor. Vilardi and Robertson get the assists. 2-0!
Vilardi from a bad angle puts us ahead 3-2! Neumann and Nyman get an assist.
Vilardi hits the empty net!!!!!! Fronts lead 4-2! Pu gets the lone assist.
Cliff Pu Stats - 0 Goals - 1 Assist - 3 Shots On Goal - 12 for 20 Face-Offs.
Future Sabre (?) Andrei Svechnikov (Barrie Colts) scored a PPG in the first period cutting the Kingston lead in half - 2-1.
The goal was his 5th goal of the playoffs - 5 playoff games played.
Andrei had 3 shots on goal - 4 penalty minutes - (2 Min Goalie Interference - 2 min Roughing).
Neither penalty led to a Kingston PPG. He was also 0 for 1 on face-offs.
Brahaney from the point on the power play! Rasanen and Nichol get the assists.
Nyman converts on the back end of the double minor. Vilardi and Robertson get the assists. 2-0!
Vilardi from a bad angle puts us ahead 3-2! Neumann and Nyman get an assist.
Vilardi hits the empty net!!!!!! Fronts lead 4-2! Pu gets the lone assist.
Cliff Pu Stats - 0 Goals - 1 Assist - 3 Shots On Goal - 12 for 20 Face-Offs.
Future Sabre (?) Andrei Svechnikov (Barrie Colts) scored a PPG in the first period cutting the Kingston lead in half - 2-1.
The goal was his 5th goal of the playoffs - 5 playoff games played.
Andrei had 3 shots on goal - 4 penalty minutes - (2 Min Goalie Interference - 2 min Roughing).
Neither penalty led to a Kingston PPG. He was also 0 for 1 on face-offs.
Last edited:
Find O’Reilly at his offseason home. Demand to train with him all offseason.
Dedicate 90% of his training time to stickwork and defensive body positioning.
Turn himself into new era pahlsson. Speed, defense and just enough offense to score by accident 7 times a year.
Icicle
Think big
- Oct 16, 2005
- 6,055
- 1,007
Isn't this a way of agreeing with assessments on why a player succeeds? That is, there's players who excel just from hitting puberty earlier, there's players who get by on speed alone and never have a strong need to pick up the light-skills (stickwork, positioning, etc.), and there's players who have all the light-skills, but not the genes to keep it up against larger humans?
Biggest issue in prospects is trying to separate all of those from each other. Speed is good and great, but like others have mentioned, Baptiste gets lost, doesn't touch the puck all that much, and over-skates the puck too much in the pros and those traits transcended back to his early days.
As far as Pu goes, he's got the little things and those are the things that translate very well when going up in leagues as long as the speed and size doesn't overcome it. Pu isn't tiny or necessarily slow though.
He's going to get dogged because he's a 3rd rounder, not a 2nd rounder. The confirmation bias across scouts is hard to overcome there. It's not like this is an exact science- people get fooled by the size all the damn time in every sport. Martin St Louis was undrafted and he still would be today 9 years out of 10.
Ethan Edwards
Registered User
Regarding Kingston v. Barrie: The stars have been stars and this series has been as advertised, though I missed Game 3 (but have watched the Svech end-to-end jaw-dropper from that game a few times--OMG!). Seems like the Fronts have just dominated at the dot, though I haven't confirmed that statistically. Pu has been excellent. Good stuff!
Cliff Pu Stats - 0 Goals - 1 Assist (assisted on a Max Jones goal that made the score 1-0 Kingston) -
1 +/- - 3 Shots On Goal - 16 for 22 on Face-Offs.
Kingston lead the series 3-2 - can clinch a spot in the Eastern Conference Finals tonight at home with a Game #6 win.
If they do so, they will play the Hamilton Bulldogs who defeated the Niagara Icedogs 4-2 last night to win that series 4-1.
Last edited:
