Proposal: Claude Giroux to Montreal - Megathread

[Vancouver Canucks]

I'm not going to single Habs out just because of the ridiculousness of a few fans. There's a few fans from every fanbase that do it. I'd be lying if I said we didn't have some out there people as well.

Trust me; it's not just "few".

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Some believe he might go back to 65 or a 7 pts upgrade.

And you are doing the same on Habs board. Juulsen voted top prospect.

Lets not compare prospects shall we?

The guy is a Senators fan.

 

[Tripod]

I'm not going to single Habs out just because of the ridiculousness of a few fans. There's a few fans from every fanbase that do it. I'd be lying if I said we didn't have some out there people as well.

Yeah there are a few people who should just stay on the home boards....and not be let out into the public.

 

[StoicSage]

Sure the Sens could beat that offer but I was wondering about something, let me know what you think




Claude Giroux (5 x 8.275)
Andrew MacDonald (3 x 5.0)
Travis Konecny (2 x 0.894 then RFA)




Bobby Ryan (5 x 7.25)
Kyle Turris (1 x 3.5)


Ryan and Giroux are both overpaid, and while Giroux brings more than Ryan, Flyers get Turris here. Andrew Mac is a pure cap dump. Sens would need a very nice piece to make this work.

Turris + Ryan >> Giroux + MacDonald

So to offset that, a nice piece would need to be going the other way.



And before Flyers fans cry murder, think about this in 2 trades :

Claude Giroux + Andrew MacDonald for Bobby Ryan

Travis Konecny for Kyle Turris

How bad it is now?

For the sake of argument and looking at what would make sense here is what I would see happening if Ottawa was getting back Giroux, Konecny.



Claude Giroux (5 x 8.275)
Andrew MacDonald (3 x 5.0)
Travis Konecny (2 x 0.894 then RFA)




2018 1st
2019 1st
Fredrick Claesson (1 x .650)
Colin White (2 x .925)
Bobby Ryan (5 x 7.25)
Kyle Turris (1 x 3.5)

If you look at the deal value wise Bobby Ryan < Andrew MacDonald due to five years left on Ryan. Turris has 1 year to UFA, so his value plummets as well if he is used as a trade piece for a different 1C. Philly needs to shore up its D and its C depth, so White and Claesson would be the minimum players/prospects likely needing to go back for Giroux.

In my mind it would look like:

Turris + Ryan + 1st for Konecny

White + Claesson + 1st for Giroux.

and honestly I would think that Ottawa would need to add if anything.

 

[TheKingPin]

I'm not going to single Habs out just because of the ridiculousness of a few fans. There's a few fans from every fanbase that do it. I'd be lying if I said we didn't have some out there people as well.

I don't know. There has been close to 10 seperate Giroux to MTL threads, all of them bad.

 

[Starat327]

For the sake of argument and looking at what would make sense here is what I would see happening if Ottawa was getting back Giroux, Konecny.



Claude Giroux (5 x 8.275)
Andrew MacDonald (3 x 5.0)
Travis Konecny (2 x 0.894 then RFA)




2018 1st
2019 1st
Fredrick Claesson (1 x .650)
Colin White (2 x .925)
Bobby Ryan (5 x 7.25)
Kyle Turris (1 x 3.5)

If you look at the deal value wise Bobby Ryan < Andrew MacDonald due to five years left on Ryan. Turris has 1 year to UFA, so his value plummets as well if he is used as a trade piece for a different 1C. Philly needs to shore up its D and its C depth, so White and Claesson would be the minimum players/prospects likely needing to go back for Giroux.

In my mind it would look like:

Turris + Ryan + 1st for Konecny

White + Claesson + 1st for Giroux.

and honestly I would think that Ottawa would need to add if anything.

Stopped reading at 'Philly needs to shore up its c and D depth.

Provorov
Ghost
Gudas
Sanheim
Myers
Hagg

Giroux
Patrick
Couturier
Filpulla
laughton

If there's any position we need to shore up, it's LW, but even then, we have some decent prospects.

I wouldn't be against a Turris for Giroux in the future, but we need to know Patrick can at least be a 1A/B type first, to know that a Turris/Patrick Combo could work.

 

[StoicSage]

Stopped reading at 'Philly needs to shore up its c and D depth.

Provorov
Ghost
Gudas
Sanheim
Myers
Hagg

Giroux
Patrick
Couturier
Filpulla
laughton

If there's any poaition we need to shore up, it's ME, but even then, we have some decent prospects.

I wouldn't be against a turris for Giroux in the future, but we need to know Patrick can at least be a 1A/b type first.

I wasn't counting Patrick since we will not know how he will play/translate for a few months. Also, if you trade away Giroux, you are going to be in a bad position at C.

Saying Philly doesn't need D isn't going to change that it is one of the areas that they need the most help atm.

 

[Starat327]

I wasn't counting Patrick since we will not know how he will play/translate for a few months. Also, if you trade away Giroux, you are going to be in a bad position at C.

Saying Philly doesn't need D isn't going to change that it is one of the areas that they need the most help atm.

Precisely why we cant trade Giroux. Hes going to shelter Patrick and usher him along. There are approximately 3 people who have any real interest in trading Giroux.

D is terrible, but the solution is most likely in the pipeline, so throwing us a mid pairing D man wont help. I appreciate your concern for our well-being, though.

Philly needs to wait and be patient. Thats all we need to do. We dont need to move young forwards for aging ones. We dont need to dump cap, were fine for the foreseeable future. We have prospect depth at all positions. We need to realize that next year is going to be a learning year for 3 rookies on D, and look to 18-19 or even 19-20 as 'our time', not this year.

 

[Ginu]

Montreal doesn't want Giroux unless he's the last option with salary retained. His production is declining significantly and his contract is awful. He's not young anymore either.

 

[Starat327]

Montreal doesn't want Giroux unless he's the last option with salary retained. His production is declining significantly and his contract is awful. He's not young anymore either.

That's good, we're not interested in trading him. Both of these opinions have been covered ad nauseam. Now if only there werent 10 threads created by mostly Montreal fans trying to acquire him, it would go a long way in reinforcing what you said.

 

[StoicSage]

Precisely why we cant trade Giroux. Hes going to shelter Patrick and usher him along. There are approximately 3 people who have any real interest in trading Giroux.

D is terrible, but the solution is most likely in the pipeline, so throwing us a mid pairing D man wont help. I appreciate your concern for our well-being, though.

Philly needs to wait and be patient. Thats all we need to do. We dont need to move young forwards for aging ones. We dont need to dump cap, were fine for the foreseeable future. We have prospect depth at all positions. We need to realize that next year is going to be a learning year for 3 rookies on D, and look to 18-19 or even 19-20 as 'our time', not this year.

That's fair. I was mostly just trying to look at what would be closer value wise from the one Sens trade. I don't know enough about the Philly org to talk in depth on what truly makes sense for them.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Montreal doesn't want Giroux unless he's the last option with salary retained. His production is declining significantly and his contract is awful. He's not young anymore either.

Yep. We hear this every day on threads started by Habs fans trying to take us out of our misery.

29 is sooooooo old. I am pretty sure you used to love Radulov. Not anymore because of the taxes but he is 31. Your number 2 dman would be 38. Weber 32 in a month. You love old. Petry and Alzner will be 29 before 1st game. You like Schlemko and he is 30.
Plekanec, Mitchell, Hemsky (!) all over 32.

Average age of your 22 man roster is 28 per capfriendly.

Sergachev just turned 19.

 

[Starat327]

That's fair. I was mostly just trying to look at what would be closer value wise from the one Sens trade. I don't know enough about the Philly org to talk in depth on what truly makes sense for them.

Were in a bit of a transition, and Philly has never gone full tank, so even the vets arent likely available unless the return meets market value - even if Girouxs contract is high for his production.

We are set up in a really good spot with a lot of good D prospects (need a bit of luck, but), some good young forwards, and a stocked goalie pipeline. If we wanted to expedite the process, we'd be looking for someone who had an exceptional young NHL goalie theyd be interested in moving, since Sandstrom/Hart are probably about 3-5 years out still, but thats really it. There are really no other moves that 'make sense' given that we have restocked on young talent, and want to keep older guys like G, Voracek and Simmonds to usher in and shelter the younger guys (Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Frost/NAK/etc eventually).

Its the main reason you rarely see Flyers fans trying to acquire anything on the trade board. We dont have any real pressing needs, based on where the organization is currently, and is planning to go in the future.

 

[He Is Knocking]

Montreal doesn't want Giroux unless he's the last option with salary retained. His production is declining significantly and his contract is awful. He's not young anymore either.

Only on HF is 29 ancient!!!

I mean when you'd like to acquire someone for pennies on the dollar. No thanks!!

Hextall isn't selling but he'll listen if it makes the team better going forward. The offers have been laughable and haven't even reached a low end negotiating point to be truthful. The Habs do not have the young assets needed to acquire Giroux so move along please!

 

[Tripod]

I wasn't counting Patrick since we will not know how he will play/translate for a few months. Also, if you trade away Giroux, you are going to be in a bad position at C.

Saying Philly doesn't need D isn't going to change that it is one of the areas that they need the most help atm.

So, instead of trading Giroux, and needing a C back, we could just keep our captain.

Reality is, Giroux, Patrick, Couturier, Filppula, Lehtera, Laughton gives up great C depth for the 1st time in many years. We have no reason to trade any of the top 3. Flip is a 1 year stopgap who will likely be at LW and then can step into C when an injury occurs.

Once Flip leaves in a year, we have Vechionne and Vorobyov who will have had a year of AHL experience under their belt. Then we have Rubstov who could be joining the following year.

Giroux won't be traded unless those young prospects really develop into higher end guys and can replace him. And even then, Giroux could be moved to wing.

It's pretty obvious that all these treads are other teams fans saying we should trade Giroux. Very, very few have been a Flyers fan stating we should.

After all, we all know Simmonds will be the next forward to go.

 

[Starat327]

So, instead of trading Giroux, and needing a C back, we could just keep our captain.

Reality is, Giroux, Patrick, Couturier, Filppula, Lehtera, Laughton gives up great C depth for the 1st time in many years. We have no reason to trade any of the top 3. Flip is a 1 year stopgap who will likely be at LW and then can step into C when an injury occurs.

Once Flip leaves in a year, we have Vechionne and Vorobyov who will have had a year of AHL experience under their belt. Then we have Rubstov who could be joining the following year.

Giroux won't be traded unless those young prospects really develop into higher end guys and can replace him. And even then, Giroux could be moved to wing.

It's pretty obvious that all these treads are other teams fans saying we should trade Giroux. Very, very few have been a Flyers fan stating we should.

After all, we all know Simmonds will be the next forward to go.

Thanks for calling out the rest of the Centers. I was having a brain fart and didnt have access to take a look at the prospect depth chart.

 

[litflyersfan]

So, instead of trading Giroux, and needing a C back, we could just keep our captain.

Reality is, Giroux, Patrick, Couturier, Filppula, Lehtera, Laughton gives up great C depth for the 1st time in many years. We have no reason to trade any of the top 3. Flip is a 1 year stopgap who will likely be at LW and then can step into C when an injury occurs.

Once Flip leaves in a year, we have Vechionne and Vorobyov who will have had a year of AHL experience under their belt. Then we have Rubstov who could be joining the following year.

Giroux won't be traded unless those young prospects really develop into higher end guys and can replace him. And even then, Giroux could be moved to wing.

It's pretty obvious that all these treads are other teams fans saying we should trade Giroux. Very, very few have been a Flyers fan stating we should.

After all, we all know Simmonds will be the next forward to go.

Sarcasm aside, moving Simmonds might not be a bad decision. Got to thanks the Caps for that questionable Oshie deal, hope Simmonds and his agent don't use that as a comparable when the negotiations come up next offseason.

 

[Starat327]

Sarcasm aside, moving Simmonds might not be a bad decision. Got to thanks the Caps for that questionable Oshie deal, hope Simmonds and his agent don't use that as a comparable when the negotiations come up next offseason.

Id be open to moving him for the right deal, for sure. Great player, great leader, great for the community. But like everyone else, hes gonna want a max term deal, and i'm not sure i want to see what Simmonds looks like at 38 with a (presumably) 5+ million cap hit.

If hes ok with a cheap deal that we can stomach, sure. But otherwise, a trade for a younger winger is fine by me, provided the quality is there (Poolparty has been discussed, and generally been 'ok' by fans on both sides).

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Yep. We hear this every day on threads started by Habs fans trying to take us out of our misery.

29 is sooooooo old. I am pretty sure you used to love Radulov. Not anymore because of the taxes but he is 31. Your number 2 dman would be 38. Weber 32 in a month. You love old. Petry and Alzner will be 29 before 1st game. You like Schlemko and he is 30.
Plekanec, Mitchell, Hemsky (!) all over 32.

Average age of your 22 man roster is 28 per capfriendly.

Sergachev just turned 19.

Another useless comment.

nhlnumbers.com 2017-2018

Phi avg age: 28.091
Mtl avg age: 28.033

2016-2017

Phi avg age: 27.006
Mtl avg age: 27.399

 

[MSSLYNX]

Another useless comment.

nhlnumbers.com 2017-2018

Phi avg age: 28.091
Mtl avg age: 28.033

2016-2017

Phi avg age: 27.006
Mtl avg age: 27.399

So we agree. 28 is your average age.

Philly's or Carolina's averages do not change that.

So you still go on Giroux is old? He is average age.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Max P. is old? Cause he shares 1988 with Giroux on their birth certificates.

You wont see me calling Pacioretty old.

 

[litflyersfan]

So we agree. 28 is your average age.

Philly's or Carolina's averages do not change that.

So you still go on Giroux is old? He is average age.

The Habs relocated to Carolina?

Actually the Carolina Canadiens has a nice ring to it.

 

[BritainStix]

Another useless comment.

nhlnumbers.com 2017-2018

Phi avg age: 28.091
Mtl avg age: 28.033

2016-2017

Phi avg age: 27.006
Mtl avg age: 27.399

What team structure is that using for Philly. I would imagine that our defense is about to lose quite a few years collectively, while adding an 18 year old Patrick and replacing VV and Bellemare and scratching Matt Read.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

So we agree. 28 is your average age.

Philly's or Carolina's averages do not change that.

So you still go on Giroux is old? He is average age.

I never said Giroux was old.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

This is silly. That Giroux contract is an albatross. I wouldn't take it for free.