News Article: Chris Ilitch noncommittal on Holland’s return

[Pavels Dog]

But he's talking about how being in the basement with little roster talent and building from there is something he doesn't want to do. Which is exactly what the Wings are going to be doing. They didn't tank to get to the bottom, but they're at the bottom nonetheless.

No, you're putting words into his mouth. He's talking about wanting the team to be the best they can be. If that means being a bottom 5 team there's no indication that he won't accept that and act accordingly (sell, gather picks, build for the future).
The difference between tanking to get to the bottom or getting there because you're simply not good enough is small in some ways, but in terms of the philosophy of building a team it's at opposite sides of the spectrum.

1. I think those spots are already available if the Wings cared to use them. This past year, they could have just no signed Daley. This offseason they could just not sign someone to take Green's spot. Or they could kick a 26/27 year old Jensen to the curb. Up front, move Helm and Gator down the lineup. I think it's more telling of Detroit that they were looking to move Tatar/Nyquist to reportedly fit Ras/Svech next year than looking to just move a couple of vets onto a "fourth" line. I'm not complaining about the return we got on Tatar, but that's where trade talk for him seemed to originate on Detroit's end.

Kid's should still take jobs rather than be handed them. It's remarkable to me that Toronto can be held up around here as a golden example of rebuilds, yet the fact that they are now emplying the EXACT SAME development strategy as the Wings have had is glossed over. Nylander spent most of the year dominating the AHL when Larkin had his rookie season. Slow cooked development. Kapanen, Dermott, Johnsson and others have been kept down much to the chagrin of Leafs fans.
Yeah, they had a bunch of rookies make it the same year. Something we could also have.

Scenario:

- Wings win top 3 draft pick: draft Dahlin/Svech/Zadina
- Wings don't re-sign Green
- Kronwall retires/LTIR
- Wings trade Glendening
- Cholowski, Hronek, E. Svechnikov, Turgeon, '18 first round pick and Rasmussen all make team out of camp.
- Some combination of Hicketts/Holmstrom/Saarijarvi/Holway/Pearson make the roster during the season.

Likely won't happen, but if the stars align we could have one of those "rookie explosion" years. It just shouldn't be artificially created by emptying spots deliberately and moving up kids that just aren't deserving of it.

 

[HIFE]

Report: Craig Custance Gives Insight on Holland’s Future “If Ken (Holland) didn’t get a three year extension, I’d be shocked,” Wonderful

Yeah it seems pretty obvious at this point. I don't subscribe to the Athletic but reading between the lines of Holland's comments the last 2 months, you have to agree with Friedman: Holland isn't operating like a GM who's stepping away.

Sad news to me but this was a predictable outcome.

 

[Marky9er]

I'm not advocating for Holland but if he's going to pull off more moves like the Tatar trade, I'm ok with it. Rally on that waypoint. Heck I think he should sign one veteran winger and trade both Nyquist and AA for more picks.

 

[Redder Winger]

I thought that was obvious, yes.
If he makes the moves you wanted, and you give him credit you are not biased.
If he makes the moves you wanted and you change your tune and rip him, you are biased.
He doesnt need to make every single one to see that.

Either way, this wasn't specifically about you. You just happened to chime in, I meant this more across the board.

i've given credit to Holland.
I liked the 3 year deal to Mike Green..
I've liked individual moves he;s made.
The Smith trade. The Tatar trade.

But what I don't like is when you start looking at the body of work and realizing that you're moving out 24-28 year olds and keeping 30-37 year olds.

 

[Frk It]

But what I don't like is when you start looking at the body of work and realizing that you're moving out 24-28 year olds and keeping 30-37 year olds.

Phrased differently; you move what can actually be moved.

 

[jkutswings]

Phrased differently; you move what can actually be moved.

Which would be more understandable if he didn't continue to add multiyear deals to players over 30.

If Kenny stays on, I'm fully expecting Green to return, on a deal at least 3 years long, and possibly with yet another NTC.

 

[Frk It]

Which would be more understandable if he didn't continue to add multiyear deals to players over 30.

If Kenny stays on, I'm fully expecting Green to return, on a deal at least 3 years long, and possibly with yet another NTC.

If you want to say we have too many immovable guys, fine, I get that.

But no one wants the crap a bottom 5 team wants to get rid of. They want the crap we don’t want to get rid of.

 

[Claypool]

But what I don't like is when you start looking at the body of work and realizing that you're moving out 24-28 year olds and keeping 30-37 year olds.

There's no market for 30-37 year-olds that still have term. Helm, Daley, etc. will all be moved at some point. Just a matter of when.

 

[jkutswings]

If you want to say we have too many immovable guys, fine, I get that.

But no one wants the crap a bottom 5 team wants to get rid of. They want the crap we don’t want to get rid of.

Agreed. But one of my biggest concerns with Holland is his poor awareness of when it's time to move on from a veteran player, and I don't see that area improving much if he's retained.

 

[kliq]

i've given credit to Holland.
I liked the 3 year deal to Mike Green..
I've liked individual moves he;s made.
The Smith trade. The Tatar trade.

But what I don't like is when you start looking at the body of work and realizing that you're moving out 24-28 year olds and keeping 30-37 year olds.

I dont have a huge issue with simply moving 24-28 years olds, as the one's he did move I think should have been moved. I just wish he also moved some of the 30+ group. I'd like to see Turgeon, Bertuzzi, Frk, Hronek, Chowolski (if he's ready), Hicketts, with regular spots next year. Hopefully we can move some vets out this summer.

 

[kliq]

Agreed. But one of my biggest concerns with Holland is his poor awareness of when it's time to move on from a veteran player, and I don't see that area improving much if he's retained.

I don't have an issue with retaining vets, my issue is retaining as many vets as we have been retaining. Helm specifically was the one we really had no business keeping.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't have an issue with retaining vets, my issue is retaining as many vets as we have been retaining. Helm specifically was the one we really had no business keeping.

And Cleary before that. And Samuelsson before that. And on and on.

 

[kliq]

And Cleary before that. And Samuelsson before that. And on and on.

Cleary never really bothered me much near the end. He was mostly a healthy scratch at a low cap hit, I think that was overblown. I didnt like the Samuelsson signing though.

 

[Redder Winger]

Cleary never really bothered me much near the end. He was mostly a healthy scratch at a low cap hit, I think that was overblown. I didnt like the Samuelsson signing though.

Cleary was the example of everything wrong with this organization.

That guy still hangs around the organization like a bad smell.

 

[Redder Winger]

Phrased differently; you move what can actually be moved.

You can't move some guys unless you try.
Unless you're aggressive.


Nice that Holland trades away all the low-hanging fruit. Any monkey can do that.

 

[kliq]

Cleary was the example of everything wrong with this organization.
That guy still hangs around the organization like a bad smell.

Trust me, I know how some people feel about Cleary. Equating him to a bad smell is a perfect example. Guy really gets shit on by fans.

 

[Henkka]

Cleary was a player developmental coach on his last days at Detroit.

And created a player developmental business after that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong on his nowadays day-job. He is a great hockey-guy. We will benefit about his work. Period.

These "bad smell" talk is kind of same talk as Nazis had about Jewish people in 30s Germany.

Looks like we have our own "Göbbels" on this board.

 

[BinCookin]

Ian Cole moved at deadline. If we really need to we can move Daley.

I would like to see us IF we sign a vet, sign them to an extremely friendly and short deal.

Overall its time to thin the heard. And so far besides Daley, that is what we have been doing.

 

[kliq]

Cleary was a player developmental coach on his last days at Detroit.

And created a player developmental business after that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong on his nowadays day-job. He is a great hockey-guy.

These "bad smell" talk is kind of same talk as Nazis had about Jewish people in 30s Germany.

Agreed. There is no doubt that Holland has leaned on vets too much over the past few years, but some fans made the Cleary signings the worst thing to ever happen to the team. Everything I have every read about him in GR was positive.

 

[StargateSG1]

Yeah it seems pretty obvious at this point. I don't subscribe to the Athletic but reading between the lines of Holland's comments the last 2 months, you have to agree with Friedman: Holland isn't operating like a GM who's stepping away.

Sad news to me but this was a predictable outcome.

He operates like a lame duck GM, who hasn't been told he is out yet.
How would you think he'd operate differently, in your opinion?
I just don't see anything that tells me he is coming back, certainly not by owner's actions, refusing to even talk to him.

 

[Claypool]

Agreed. There is no doubt that Holland has leaned on vets too much over the past few years, but some fans made the Cleary signings the worst thing to ever happen to the team. Everything I have every read about him in GR was positive.

I'm pretty sure Babcock played a huge role in bringing back some of the veteran players.

 

[kliq]

He operates like a lame duck GM, who hasn't been told he is out yet.
How would you think he'd operate differently, in your opinion?
I just don't see anything that tells me he is coming back, certainly not by owner's actions, refusing to even talk to him.

I think that's more so wishful thinking. I'd say he's almost a lock to come back.

 

[StargateSG1]

I think that's more so wishful thinking. I'd say he's almost a lock to come back.

Even Custance admitted he has no clue what Chris will do.
The noise from Devellano and some others is just an attempt to prop him up.
If it was a "done deal", those interviews wouldn't be needed.

 

[kliq]

Even Custance admitted he has no clue what Chris will do.
The noise from Devellano and some others is just an attempt to prop him up.
If it was a "done deal", those interviews wouldn't be needed.

I feel that if Illitch was not going to keep Holland, Holland would know by now. If Holland knew, I dont think that "noise" would be out there.
We'll see, I could be wrong. But I think its a lock.

 

[StargateSG1]

I feel that if Illitch was not going to keep Holland, Holland would know by now. If Holland knew, I dont think that "noise" would be out there.
We'll see, I could be wrong. But I think its a lock.

I have an opposite idea that he'd be resigned already, if that was the case, to remove the "Lame Duck" label from him and end the Seattle rumors.