TSN: Cheveldayoff: Playoff Success Not A Given (see mod warning in OP)

[Whileee]

No management or ownership group regardless of Industry wants to look dumb or ignores public opinion completely. Not saying Jets care more or less but they do care about public opinion and Chevy sure cares.

Chipman, Chevy and Maurice know that the bottom line is winning. They might make errors in judgement, and perhaps play favourites from time to time, but I really doubt that they would deliberately put a worse team on the ice because they want to "look good". The notion is a bit absurd.

 

[Whileee]

Well you are right it was something of a feel good piece. They are doing a series of interviews with the GMs of the Canadian teams. McKenzie isn't going to get that kind of access if he grills them. I don't know what kind of questions you expect or want. The things he didn't say are all things he isn't going to say no matter how hard he is pushed.

Yup.

I didn't expect to hear much more from Chevy, but I was very impressed with how knowledgeable McKenzie was. He clearly has a good handle on the key issues for the Jets going forward. I thought it was interesting that he mentioned that numerous Western Conference coaches told him that they thought the Jets would be the most punishing physical match-up in the playoffs.

 

[Hunter368]

What did you expect?

Other than him divulging details about ongoing contract negotiations, I'm not sure what else he's supposed to say. I think we have a better sense of where he thinks some of the prospects are, though it's obviously up to the coach to assess them during training camp before knowing what role they might play this season. I thought it was pretty clear that the Jets still plan to play a "heavy" game. That might have been one aspect that concerned me a bit. I think we need more quickness and talent on the team, so I hope Maurice doesn't over-emphasize the big lugs.

Well you are right it was something of a feel good piece. They are doing a series of interviews with the GMs of the Canadian teams. McKenzie isn't going to get that kind of access if he grills them. I don't know what kind of questions you expect or want. The things he didn't say are all things he isn't going to say no matter how hard he is pushed.

I wasn't expecting anything just stating what it was.....feel good/fluff piece.Fine for your average fan who doesn't follow the team closely or a fan from another team. As a informed fan who follows the team very closely, it was a waste of time.

 

[Hunter368]

Yup.

I didn't expect to hear much more from Chevy, but I was very impressed with how knowledgeable McKenzie was. He clearly has a good handle on the key issues for the Jets going forward. I thought it was interesting that he mentioned that numerous Western Conference coaches told him that they thought the Jets would be the most punishing physical match-up in the playoffs.

Bob's comments from last year's playoffs is old news,knew that already.

 

[sully1410]

I'm still getting over the fact that Chevy said "Man-Strength". It was strangely funny.

 

[ps241]

Sounds like it.

Also interesting to hear how impressed they were with Petan last year. I didn't hear a similar comment about Ehlers, but I assume he will get a shot.

Armia was specifically mentioned as a top 9 candidate. I have no clue what that would do to the roster. Could they actually be thinking about 4 lines of good hockey players?

With injuries it probably takes 10 or 11 top 9 forwards just to avoid having Thor play more than half his time on the 3rd line

 

[Hunter368]

I'm still getting over the fact that Chevy said "Man-Strength". It was strangely funny.

I caught that also, a bit odd. In MMA I've heard guys having gorilla strength.

 

[Board Bard]

I do have to say...

The goalie aging curve stuff was silly.

I'm halfways expecting Pavelec to show up at camp in diapers.

 

[Board Bard]

Nothing new.

But nice to hear it.

Oh, and yes, Armia will definitely start for the Jets. Even in the hypothetical scenario that he's bad and playing him is a bad decision: not playing him would make Chevy look stupid for getting him in the trade. So he will get a chance.[/QUOTE]

I'm getting the distinct impression that this organization is more concerned about not looking bad than necessarily fielding the best team.

Hear me out. First they play Pavs through thick and thin when he's playing awful for season after season, not really bringing any decent backup in to challenge him, and continuously starting him even when a backup was playing superb. That was all to support a bad contract that really should have never happened & should have been nixed by a buyout.

Then they make the good trade with Buffalo but the verdict may still hang in the balance. Stafford works out well but was there really a need to bring him back for 2 more years at 4 mill per -- an awful lot for a middle 6 guy when you are in an impending cash crunch, prospects waiting in the wings, and there are perfectly good middle 6 guys like Stemp available for a heck of a lot less.

Then there's Armia & Lemieux. Armia, sure he probably needs to be given a look if he performs well in TC, but to basically have him pencilled in already really has me wondering. Lemieux too seems at times to be on the fast track to making it into the NHL. Gave him an really big ELC contract, talk highly of him, etc. etc even though he may be still years away if he ever makes it.

Just an impression I have, but they seem to be awful sensitive to public perception on these transactions & awfully reluctant to recognize that everyone makes mistakes, its how you recover after the mistake that separates the good from the ordinary.

That kinda reminds of how defensive Chevy got last summer when there was some criticism about him doing nothing with free agents, and he piped in about how he signed Stuart for four more years, like it was some kind of achievement or something.

 

[Romang67]

Sounds like it.

Also interesting to hear how impressed they were with Petan last year. I didn't hear a similar comment about Ehlers, but I assume he will get a shot.

Armia was specifically mentioned as a top 9 candidate. I have no clue what that would do to the roster. Could they actually be thinking about 4 lines of good hockey players?

The Petan praise is intriguing, as I assumed that he'll start in the A if Ehlers makes the team.

Imagine if we have a whole team of good players...

 

[Hunter368]

That kinda reminds of how defensive Chevy got last summer when there was some criticism about him doing nothing with free agents, and he piped in about how he signed Stuart for four more years, like it was some kind of achievement or something.

He was defensive again this summer when the media suggested the same thing. We need to just get used to Chevy's style.

Some GM's are like rabbits and Chevy is like the turtle. Just the way it is, both can be successful methods.

 

[Hunter368]

The Petan praise is intriguing, as I assumed that he'll start in the A if Ehlers makes the team.

Imagine if we have a whole team of good players...

Impossible, we have too many crap players signed.

 

[powder88]

Chipman, Chevy and Maurice know that the bottom line is winning. They might make errors in judgement, and perhaps play favourites from time to time, but I really doubt that they would deliberately put a worse team on the ice because they want to "look good". The notion is a bit absurd.

I'm going to disagree with you here. In my mind, fielding the best team is maybe the third highest priority for TNSE, and possibly not even that high. I would argue that some of the other priorities, even if totally justified, will mean this is a team that struggles to reach the upper echelons of the league. Despite what anyone says, there is no way that winning is TNSE's #1 priority. In descending order of priority:

-Run a financially successful business: Chipman has been absolutely upfront about this, and I don't blame him at all for it. For the Jets to even exist long term, they must be financially viable. We are already seeing this impact the on-ice product, given concerns around Buff and next-year's RFA's. Given the choice between improving the team and improving the bottom line, TNSE will close the later every time. Now, I happen to believe that Chipman and Thompson are taking $$$ out by the truckload and could quite easily take a smaller share in order to devote more to salaries, but as owners, that is entirely at their discretion; they don't owe us schleps anything.

-Loyalty: TNSE is nothing if not a loyal organization. Many of the Moose staff were carried over to the new club, as was the coach. Chevy got himself an extension 2 years into a 5 year contract. Only in the last year or two has the TNSE realized that some of their former employers were working for an AHL franchise for a reason. There is no doubt that it has held back the winning potential of the team over that time (Stuart, Thorburn, Pavelec).

-Commitment to the "Plan": This is always a tricky one, because any person or organization has to have commitment to their plans and way of doing business in order to be successful; they can't be changing philosophies and approaches every two months. Having said that, I don;t believe TNSE is a very nimble organization. I think they blindly follow their philosophy and don't routinely challenge it to make sure it is still the best course.

Once all of these are satisfied, then attention turns to on-ice product. I don't want to suggest that TNSE is not right to set up their priority structure this way (although I wish some were different), but to pretend that winning trumps all is a fantasy.

 

[cbcwpg]

Good interview. He told us everything that there was to tell. We can stop debating about trading Buff. It was never a possibility. There is going to be some competition for some jobs. Morrissey is going to be left to over ripen.

Maybe for this week. Until such time as Buff actually re-signs, trading him is always a possibility. Doesn't mean now or even during the first part of the season, but it can still happen. Maybe your right though... maybe the Jets never trade Buff and just let him walk. Chevy's known to make that move.

 

[Hunter368]

Maybe for this week. Until such time as Buff actually re-signs, trading him is always a possibility. Doesn't mean now or even during the first part of the season, but it can still happen. Maybe your right though... maybe the Jets never trade Buff and just let him walk. Chevy's known to make that move.

Frolik who is a top 9 guy was allowed to walk. Buff is much more than a top 9 guy. I agree Buff trade is still very possible.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wasn't expecting anything just stating what it was.....feel good/fluff piece.Fine for your average fan who doesn't follow the team closely or a fan from another team. As a informed fan who follows the team very closely, it was a waste of time.

I found it less than a waste of time. I didn't really learn anything I didn't know or suspect. The thing is that there is a theme that Chevy doesn't tell us anything. I think he has told us all there is to tell. It was all there in that interview. It may all be old news but it is all the news there is.

 

[Atoyot]

It's exciting to me that this is the first year that we have competent players to call up when injuries hit. No more Thorburn on the 3rd line with a Cormier call up for the 4th, call up Petan, or Armia, maybe give de Leo a couple games. We'd have to get pretty decimated to see Thorburn on the 3rd.

 

[Hunter368]

I found it less than a waste of time. I didn't really learn anything I didn't know or suspect. The thing is that there is a theme that Chevy doesn't tell us anything. I think he has told us all there is to tell. It was all there in that interview. It may all be old news but it is all the news there is.

Agreed. Only time will tell more. Prospects make it or not at TC. Buff sign or trade o contract negotiations get deeper. Time will tell.

Not sure why it took this many months/weeks to start on Buff contract talks unless it was b/c Buff wanted to wait. Certainly not b/c Chevy was busy thi summer.

 

[CaptainChef]

Chipman, Chevy and Maurice know that the bottom line is winning. They might make errors in judgement, and perhaps play favourites from time to time, but I really doubt that they would deliberately put a worse team on the ice because they want to "look good". The notion is a bit absurd.

I agree that it makes no sense, but the multiple questionable decisions they have made regarding goaltending since Pavs was signed to that bad contract sure make one question where the heck they were going & whether it was more important to field a winning team or just to look like they did the right thing in the first place.

It would have been so easy & made so much sense to cut Pavs adrift & pick up any UFA to replace him 2-3 years ago, yet they sat on their hands & did virtually nothing.

There are other instances where loyalty & commitment seemed to play too much influence on what they did (ie., the multi-year & too much $ Thorbs signing; hanging onto the hope that Noel would turn the corner & become an NHL quality coach until they were basically forced to cut the cord, etc). There are times when one needs to realize that its a business & friendships/loyalty need to be taken out of the equation and the right decisions made to field the best team possible.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maybe for this week. Until such time as Buff actually re-signs, trading him is always a possibility. Doesn't mean now or even during the first part of the season, but it can still happen. Maybe your right though... maybe the Jets never trade Buff and just let him walk. Chevy's known to make that move.

I don't know if it goes that way or not. The impression I got from the interview though was that the decision was always to sign both Ladd and Buff. No other options were really considered. They would be re-signed and that is that. Starting the season with them unsigned is seen as acceptable and so on. Does that change at some point? Who knows?

Quite a few of us thought it was imperative to either sign or trade them before TC opens. Chevy doesn't seem to see any particular urgency there at all. Reminds me of Frolik. I think Chevy expected Frolik to sign right up until he signed with Calgary. He seemed genuinely surprised or at least disappointed. Seems strange to me because I thought it was pretty obvious since last summer that was not happening.

 

[surixon]

I agree that it makes no sense, but the multiple questionable decisions they have made regarding goaltending since Pavs was signed to that bad contract sure make one question where the heck they were going & whether it was more important to field a winning team or just to look like they did the right thing in the first place.

It would have been so easy & made so much sense to cut Pavs adrift & pick up any UFA to replace him 2-3 years ago, yet they sat on their hands & did virtually nothing.

There are other instances where loyalty & seemed to play too much influence on what they did (ie., the multi-year & too much $ Thorbs signing). There are times when one needs to realize that its a business & friendships/loyalty need to be taken out of the equation and the right decisions made to field the best team possible.

Well they allowed Hutch to steal his job when he deserved it last year. Chevy even mentions Helly and Comrie pushing themselves in. I really don't think they are as attached to Pavs as some seem to think. Going forward he is going to have to earn his starts as he did last year. If not they will allow the other goalies in the system to leap frog him ala Hutch last year. Just because they as an organization don't believe in buyouts doesn't mean they are not afraid to admit mistakes and move on.

If they were, they wouldn't have brought Burmie back. I also don't see the big deal in being excited about the pieces in the Kane deal. Really what has changed since the deal that would make the org sour on any of the pieces.

Lemieux scored 40 goals last. I get that he has maturity and other holes in his game but those were all known before we made the deal. No reason since for management to sour on him.

Stafford (Not my favorite player) came in and fit in really well and scored really well. If utilized correctly he can contribute positively. I see no issue with bringing him back.

Armia becomes waiver eligible in a year so they need to make a call on him. He had a rough go in St. Johns but that is more the norm when players change teams and systems. He is polished and now knows the system so imo he will be ready to step in and contribute. He will still have to win the top nine role, otherwise he's on the fourth.

 

[Gm0ney]

It's exciting to me that this is the first year that we have competent players to call up when injuries hit. No more Thorburn on the 3rd line with a Cormier call up for the 4th, call up Petan, or Armia, maybe give de Leo a couple games. We'd have to get pretty decimated to see Thorburn on the 3rd.

Chiarot was a pretty competent callup last year. And Postma and Redmond before him. At forward the callups haven't been as good historically but Machacek acquitted himself well in 2012 and O'Dell always looked not incompetent...

 

[Whileee]

I'm going to disagree with you here. In my mind, fielding the best team is maybe the third highest priority for TNSE, and possibly not even that high. I would argue that some of the other priorities, even if totally justified, will mean this is a team that struggles to reach the upper echelons of the league. Despite what anyone says, there is no way that winning is TNSE's #1 priority. In descending order of priority:

-Run a financially successful business: Chipman has been absolutely upfront about this, and I don't blame him at all for it. For the Jets to even exist long term, they must be financially viable. We are already seeing this impact the on-ice product, given concerns around Buff and next-year's RFA's. Given the choice between improving the team and improving the bottom line, TNSE will close the later every time. Now, I happen to believe that Chipman and Thompson are taking $$$ out by the truckload and could quite easily take a smaller share in order to devote more to salaries, but as owners, that is entirely at their discretion; they don't owe us schleps anything.

-Loyalty: TNSE is nothing if not a loyal organization. Many of the Moose staff were carried over to the new club, as was the coach. Chevy got himself an extension 2 years into a 5 year contract. Only in the last year or two has the TNSE realized that some of their former employers were working for an AHL franchise for a reason. There is no doubt that it has held back the winning potential of the team over that time (Stuart, Thorburn, Pavelec).

-Commitment to the "Plan": This is always a tricky one, because any person or organization has to have commitment to their plans and way of doing business in order to be successful; they can't be changing philosophies and approaches every two months. Having said that, I don;t believe TNSE is a very nimble organization. I think they blindly follow their philosophy and don't routinely challenge it to make sure it is still the best course.

Once all of these are satisfied, then attention turns to on-ice product. I don't want to suggest that TNSE is not right to set up their priority structure this way (although I wish some were different), but to pretend that winning trumps all is a fantasy.

First, the Jets like almost every other decent team is going to be up against the salary cap for the foreseeable future. They can't save money on salaries, so the best way to address the "bottom line" is to increase revenues, which means winning.

Second, the whole idea of having a "plan" is to be successful on the ice. It's not logical to follow a plan instead of success on the ice.

Third, loyalty is all part of the concept of having a winning organization in Winnipeg. Chevy has experience being part of tough decisions.... He signed Bogo and Kane to be key pieces of the organization, but when he saw that he needed to go in a different direction he made the big trade.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/the-fork-in-the-road-for-jets-boss-cheveldayoff/article534733/

“I opened the door,†Cheveldayoff remembers, “and out of the dark my son suckers me to the side of the head and says, ‘I can't believe you traded Buff!'â€

We might just see history repeat itself....

 

[ellismate]

I'm getting the distinct impression that this organization is more concerned about not looking bad than necessarily fielding the best team.

Hear me out. First they play Pavs through thick and thin when he's playing awful for season after season, not really bringing any decent backup in to challenge him, and continuously starting him even when a backup was playing superb. That was all to support a bad contract that really should have never happened & should have been nixed by a buyout.

Then they make the good trade with Buffalo but the verdict may still hang in the balance. Stafford works out well but was there really a need to bring him back for 2 more years at 4 mill per -- an awful lot for a middle 6 guy when you are in an impending cash crunch, prospects waiting in the wings, and there are perfectly good middle 6 guys like Stemp available for a heck of a lot less.

Then there's Armia & Lemieux. Armia, sure he probably needs to be given a look if he performs well in TC, but to basically have him pencilled in already really has me wondering. Lemieux too seems at times to be on the fast track to making it into the NHL. Gave him an really big ELC contract, talk highly of him, etc. etc even though he may be still years away if he ever makes it.

Just an impression I have, but they seem to be awful sensitive to public perception on these transactions & awfully reluctant to recognize that everyone makes mistakes, its how you recover after the mistake that separates the good from the ordinary.

I think they have made the right decision with Pav. People really assume a little too hard that Helle and Hutch are ready to fill the starting position. Pav finished with the same save percentage in the NHL last season as Helle did in the AHL, and as we saw, Hutch is the kind of guy that can hit a rut and have a hard time escaping. If they were more worried about saving face, they wouldn't have been so hard on Scheif turning pro, because Chevy really stuck his neck out drafting this guy a lot higher than projected. Pav has always been a young goalie, and its pretty rare for a goalie to be a star from the day they start. I remember Price sucking for a long time, and when we were choosing team Canada, it seemed more like a situation like "I guess he's as good as we got", rather than him being a top goalie in the league, but then he had last season where he was pretty much the best goalie, ever. It would be silly to power through the young-goalie pains only to drop him right as he starts to become a veteran, and start over with a rookie - sophomore combo. Of course we need a better goalie, but they aren't exactly that easy to come by. Its like a team that needs a quarterback; you can't just trade your best receiver for Aaron Rodgers, because they like having a good QB too. You either have to take one on a monster contract who was under performing, like Luongo, or draft and develop them yourself, which is what we're doing. Even the case with Luongo, I remember him being a great Junior goalie when they played the WJC in Winnipeg all those years ago, then I didn't really hear much of him playing until right before he got traded to Vancouver, which had to be almost 5 years later.

IMO Lemieux seems to be getting fast tracked because he's got the man body, but more importantly, he's a type of player that the organization doesn't have yet that can be a real game changer - the agitator. From what I saw of him in Penticton, hes the kind of guy who will score a goal, then run an opposition player on the way to the bench, then stand up and ask "WTF???" like he didn't do it on purpose. We might have a few face-punchers that suck, but I'd take an agitator+enforcer+potential over a one dimensional facepuncher any day.

 

[ellismate]

And with regards to Chipman and making money first. If the Jets start to win, just think of all the Saskatchewan fans that suddenly will have loved us since we drafted Selanne. The amount of Bruins, turned Islanders, I mean Hawks fans in this province is hilarious. They always have to come up with their side reason of why they like them, too. It can never be because they're the best team in the league and I like cheering for the winning team, its always something to do with their 80's success, the fact that they're an original, or their captain is a good Canadian boy, or whatever. If the Jets start to make some deep playoff pushes, our fan-base will double, temporarily. It'll be Winnipeg because they're a prairie team.