Chairelli and Gretzky developed Boston?

[redgrant]

so your only criteria from being good at drafting and developing is 2nd round and later picks? and again, no credit for identifying and signing Torey Krug?

My criteria is outside first round or going off the board in round 1.

For example if Edmonton had the 4th pick and Jesse wasn't still on the board they were going to target sergeychev who went 10 instead of luc Dubois. Let's say that paid off thst would be shrewd drafting.

You're acting like if Boston had the 5th overall pick they'd run to the podium to take Pastrnak.

As for Krug, caggulia type picks these are zero risk propositions. In a draft you have one spot and if you ruin your selection you don't get do overs.

If Edmonton wanted to target a management team thst had a strong drafting track record there were a ton of better alternatives than Boston model to pursue.

 

[redgrant]

Again if you discredit Chiarelli’s work and success in Boston you can discredit Tallon, Shero, Burke, Bowman, Rutherford, Holland, every one of these GM’s inherited more key pieces than Chiarelli did in Boston.

See this is what I'm talking about for example. Let's use Holland as he hasn't jumped around a lot. Look at his drafting record.

Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Mrazek
Tatar
Helm
Abdelkader

None in the first round. All contributed to team success.

 

[Fourier]

My criteria is outside first round or going off the board in round 1.

For example if Edmonton had the 4th pick and Jesse wasn't still on the board they were going to target sergeychev who went 10 instead of luc Dubois. Let's say that paid off thst would be shrewd drafting.

You're acting like if Boston had the 5th overall pick they'd run to the podium to take Pastrnak.

As for Krug, caggulia type picks these are zero risk propositions. In a draft you have one spot and if you ruin your selection you don't get do overs.

If Edmonton wanted to target a management team thst had a strong drafting track record there were a ton of better alternatives than Boston model to pursue.

Going off the board is usually a recipe for disaster.

The best way to succeed in the draft is to make sure that you get a player out of your #1 pick. The guys who do that most consistently are going to be the guys who build the best teams. Second round gems help and they tend to be the players most people attribute to great drafting. Chicago had a lot of luck with later round picks but that same group of geniuses blew a bunch of 1st round picks. So were they smart or just lucky.

But even so you can also add Spooner, Hutchison and Benning as later round solid picks. There is also a group of guys like Donato and even Khokhlachev who left for the KHL but who is very likely an NHL calibre player.

 

[Nostradumbass]

See this is what I'm talking about for example. Let's use Holland as he hasn't jumped around a lot. Look at his drafting record.

Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Mrazek
Tatar
Helm
Abdelkader

None in the first round. All contributed to team success.

Are we really going back 20 years to judge a manager's drafting record?

 

[Soundwave]

Peter Chiarelli was under contract with the Ottawa Senators until July 15, 2006 so he did not do that 2006 draft. Gorton drafted Marchand and Kessell and Lucic in the 2006 draft.

The Bruins had better drafting pre-Chiarelli actually. They landed Bergeron (round 2, 03), Krejci (round 2, 04), Marchand (round 3, 06), Lucic (round 2, 06), and Kessel (round 1, 06) in the 2003-2006 drafts plus Gorton acquired Tukka Rask the same week as the 2006 draft. That's a helluva take home.

2007-2009 drafts under Chia were mediocre for Boston. Seguin was a no-brainer pick, Hamilton was a good selection, Pasta obviously a terrific selection, but other than that the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th round drafting under Chia hasn't been great for Boston. Which is where the Oilers are weak, we have gotten good players in round 1 ... just not after that.

Oilers have gotten good finds in the 1st round even past the top 10, Klefbom (19) and Eberle (22) were good picks. It's our 2nd/3rd/4th/5th round drafting that's crap, and Boston's was not very good either under Chia.

 

[McDNicks17]

That's what I thought. 1 guy outside the first round that wasn't consensus BPA.

For some reason he's got this aura of development around him.

They drafted two other top6 NHLers in Ryan Donato and Anders Bjork that same draft too.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I think you have to give him credit for Boston. Few GM's are Poile level mastermind.....and even Poile looked bad at times (letting Suter walk etc). But IMO chia signed and developed the right guys in Boston......is he a king among men because of it? no. But I think there is some credit due there.

The Seguin trade bit about "Loui Ericsson and scraps" is also pretty bad. Ericsson was a very good player at that time......and Reilly Smith is a good piece...even now. You can frotter assets away if you can replace them ina year or two....to some degree.

Oh....and Sweeney gets a pass on the Hamilton trade does he?

blah blerg blech

 

[redgrant]

Are we really going back 20 years to judge a manager's drafting record?

Well if you're going to argue that other managers didn't do much, yes.

 

[oobga]

A little off topic but Boston lead the league in corsi. They still shoot a ton after Julien and chairelli.

This is the type of stats I've seen following Julien around:



Mike Kelly was showing last year the kind of transformation that happened as soon as Julien was fired. Shot rates still good, but the quality completely changed.

Some coaches just make their players do dumb stuff, and if the league is evolving while you're not, your dumb just keeps getting dumber.

Chia might be turning a blind eye to the same kind of thing happening here. Let's just hope not though, for all our sake.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

That's what I thought. 1 guy outside the first round that wasn't consensus BPA.

For some reason he's got this aura of development around him.

Look at that draft more closely. 4 of their 5 picks are NHLers

 

[Mr Positive]

Chiarelli and Gretzky should be judged by what they do here. The Boston years are interesting side notes but hardly important to us, and shouldn't be used to justify keeping them or firing them.

 

[MessierII]

See this is what I'm talking about for example. Let's use Holland as he hasn't jumped around a lot. Look at his drafting record.

Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Mrazek
Tatar
Helm
Abdelkader

None in the first round. All contributed to team success.

And he inherited one of the best D of all time in his prime. Plus a plethora of all star/hall of fame vets to shelter and mentor his young players.

 

[MessierII]

Well if you're going to argue that other managers didn't do much, yes.

So say Boston wins the cup this year. Chiarelli clearly gets no credit because he apparently didn’t do anything in 5 years leading up to his cup win. Sweeney can’t get credit as he has done even less than Chiarelli. I guess you go back to Jeff Gortons couple of months but then again he inherited Bergeron etc..... so I guess no GM can get credit for a cup win.

 

[fuswald]

Goody another Chiarelli sucks thread. Never seems to be enough of them.

 

[Hynh]

It's like barzal. You can't chastise a team at 3 or 4 that passed on him. He was projected to go 10 to 15.

McKenzie had him at 22. That's 3 spots higher than he went but it's not like he was a slam dunk, run up to the podium pick. Even if you like drafting from Sweden, Adrian Kempe was in the same range and was producing in the SHL instead of Allsvenskan.

I don't get why some people are so intent on making everything Chiarelli does seem like The Worst Thing Ever™. He has enough flaws and they are apparent enough, he's not "sneaky bad".

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I like the drafting in recent years, realistically that was our biggest weakness for probably 20+ years, drafting and development. If Chia fixes that and gets the axe at some point at least the cupboard should be stocked for once.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I like the drafting in recent years, realistically that was our biggest weakness for probably 20+ years, drafting and development. If Chia fixes that and gets the axe at some point at least the cupboard should be stocked for once.

I agree. I love where we are with drafting, but developing is a wait and see.

Very few picks have me disappointed, and others have me pleasantly surprised. The only pick I didn't love was Benson over Debrincat, but that is my OHL bias. However, like Pitlick over Toffoli, I don't hate it because I see why they picked the player (Pitlick could have been a much better player with better development and fewer injuries). It's nothing like Musil over Jenner or jumping the gun for Moroz.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

It's funny hearing people say a GM should only get credit for late round picks or when they "go off the board" because when they do that the fanbase goes absolutely bonkers.
Are we seriously not gonna give credit when they pick the right guy that's projected in the range that they're picking because someone else(central scouting) thinks this is the range of where they'll be drafted?
I guess by this criteria it was very shrewd by every GM, other than NYR, to not draft Cherapanov even though he was falling since the guy died. There's luck involved in all of this.

 

[Stoneman89]

See this is what I'm talking about for example. Let's use Holland as he hasn't jumped around a lot. Look at his drafting record.

Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Mrazek
Tatar
Helm
Abdelkader

None in the first round. All contributed to team success.

Let's be honest though. The Wings struck lightning (Zetterberg, Datsuyk and Lidstrom) about 3 times in a short period of time, just like the Oilers did (Kurri, Messier, Anderson)

The others are decent players but really, complimentary, and their value was much greater when involved with the big 3. And as you can see now, with the departure and age occuring with the big 3, the results are now somewhat modest and what you'd expect.

 

[Stoneman89]

Chiarelli and Gretzky should be judged by what they do here. The Boston years are interesting side notes but hardly important to us, and shouldn't be used to justify keeping them or firing them.

But you can certainly base opinions on a much larger body of work than just the 3 years here. Looking back at the prior 5 or so years before Oilers can give you a window and perspective on why some things are done that way here now, rightly or wrongly.

 

[McGoMcD]

Peter Chiarelli was under contract with the Ottawa Senators until July 15, 2006 so he did not do that 2006 draft. Gorton drafted Marchand and Kessell and Lucic in the 2006 draft.

The Bruins had better drafting pre-Chiarelli actually. They landed Bergeron (round 2, 03), Krejci (round 2, 04), Marchand (round 3, 06), Lucic (round 2, 06), and Kessel (round 1, 06) in the 2003-2006 drafts plus Gorton acquired Tukka Rask the same week as the 2006 draft. That's a helluva take home.

2007-2009 drafts under Chia were mediocre for Boston. Seguin was a no-brainer pick, Hamilton was a good selection, Pasta obviously a terrific selection, but other than that the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th round drafting under Chia hasn't been great for Boston. Which is where the Oilers are weak, we have gotten good players in round 1 ... just not after that.

Oilers have gotten good finds in the 1st round even past the top 10, Klefbom (19) and Eberle (22) were good picks. It's our 2nd/3rd/4th/5th round drafting that's crap, and Boston's was not very good either under Chia.

As much as it gets old bashing Chia he just didn't have a remarkable drafting record in Boston. The team is still hugely relying on Rask, Marchand, Bergeron who were not brought in by Chia.

Pastranak was a great pick, but even a GM just picking the BPA on the scouting lists will get one great pick every 10 years. His picks outside the first round were mediocre at best.

I think his drafting is fine. But it needs to be better than fine to make up for his horrible trades.

 

[Mr Positive]

But you can certainly base opinions on a much larger body of work than just the 3 years here. Looking back at the prior 5 or so years before Oilers can give you a window and perspective on why some things are done that way here now, rightly or wrongly.

So maybe McPhee shouldn't GM of the year because he traded Forsberg for Erat?

 

[belair]

Jeff Gorton drafted Marchand.

Just saying.

And Chiarelli's people developed him. Chiarelli's also the guy who signed their extensions, which ultimately led to David Pastrnak's cap number being lower. He did what he did to keep that core together--the Seguin trade included.

 

[Mr Sakich]

There is a fascinating website called potatogm.com

The author compares teams actual draft performance to the picks that a potato would make if he knew to how handle a basic calculator.

I am not sure when Gretzky and chia lost responsibility for the Bruins or gained actual control of the oilers but it appears that they are one of the best drafting leaders in the nhl.

I am not affiliated with the site but would be very interested in getting opinions about the authors methodology