Confirmed Trade: [CGY/EDM] James Neal for Milan Lucic (12.5% retained) and a 2020 conditional 3rd round pick Part 3

[DomBarr]

Wow. All the posts already. I haven't read them all but I imagine there are more than enough "our side won, you got a boat anchor" style comments.

As a Calgary fan, I would have preferred to keep Neal as I think he will have a bounce back season. Having said that Lucic brings a different element to the game and that is toughness - something that Calgary needs. He is also a better defensive player. Calgary scored a lot last season without Neal's help so if Lucic can beat that output we're already ahead.

no surprisingly its fairly universal that Calgary lost due to Lucic's contract...lots of back and forth on which boat anchor is the worst player though...

 

[Cup or Bust]

Oiler fans today

 

[DFC]

If it wasn't for the way it was structured I'd take the 5.25 to have Lucic over the 6.5 to have Neal

But obviously the structure of Lucic's deal and the unknown factor of the NMC tilts that back a bit for sure

Yeah, but the structure is a huge deal, is it not? Like the Oilers can test drive Neal and then possibly buy him out. Seems like the Flames are stuck with Lucic regardless, and he's not getting any faster.

 

[BatVader]

So.... is Lucic’s NMC still in effect?

 

[Snakepit]

Yeah, but the structure is a huge deal, is it not? Like the Oilers can test drive Neal and then possibly buy him out. Seems like the Flames are stuck with Lucic regardless, and he's not getting any faster.

Oh for sure. But it's not like Neals buy out is awesome either. Oilers already have $4,883,333‬ in dead cap space with buyouts and retention, adding another 2 mil for 8 years to that is a pretty big pill to swallow.

Contract looks good next to Lucic's but it's still not good. That's a win for Edmonton no doubt but at the end of the day we're still discussing a deal about a crappy overpaid winger for a crappy overpaid winger

 

[DFC]

Oh for sure. But it's not like Neals buy out is awesome either. Oilers already have $4,883,333‬ in dead cap space with buyouts and retention, adding another 2 mil for 8 years to that is a pretty big pill to swallow.

Contract looks good next to Lucic's but it's still not good. That's a win for Edmonton no doubt but at the end of the day we're still discussing a deal about a crappy overpaid winger for a crappy overpaid winger

No one's saying Neal is good. It just seems like the Flames went traded a bad situation for a worse situation.

 

[booyakasha]

So.... is Lucic’s NMC still in effect?

yes

 

[InfinityIggy]

So.... is Lucic’s NMC still in effect?

Yes. Flames chose to honour it.... because.?

 

[Snakepit]

So.... is Lucic’s NMC still in effect?

As far as I can tell it is in effect but nobody has reported on the addendum for the expansion draft Calgary was pushing for. So bit of an unknown right now

 

[booyakasha]

Yes. Flames chose to honour it.... because.?

Brad Treliving .."WTF did I just do?"

 

[Snakepit]

No one's saying Neal is good. It just seems like the Flames went traded a bad situation for a worse situation.

Im only guessing here but my thoughts are they must value the slightly lower cap hit over any potential buyout scenario

 

[Avelanche]

I just do not get this from the Flames' side. As bad as Neal was, couldn't they have just dumped the contract to someone for an asset? Taking on a worse asset, and one far less likely to rebound, seems very odd to me. I don't get it at all.

why does he seem less likely to rebound? neal has been as bad as Lucic for just as long even if Neals stats didn't drop until recently.

 

[DFC]

why does he seem less likely to rebound? neal has been as bad as Lucic for just as long even if Neals stats didn't drop until recently.

Because he can't skate.

 

[Snakepit]

Because he can't skate.

Neither can Neal though

 

[Aceboogie]

As bad as this trade was, this would rank like 7th worst on Chiarellis list during his 3 years here

 

[Bedards Dad]

(taken from another forum)

Flames (14 forwards with 200+ minutes)

James Neal was
12th in CF%
13th in SF%
13th in GF%
13th in xGF%
13th in SCF%
12th in HDCF%
5th in offensive zone starts


Oilers (15 forwards with 200+ minutes)

Milan Lucic was
4th in CF%
5th in SF%
7th in GF%
3rd in xGF%
4th in SCF%
4th in HDCF%
12th in offensive zone starts

Kind of digging this trade the more I mull over it. A 107 point team just traded their worst performing forward, burn the town down. Lucic is tougher, neither can skate. I hope Lucic can control the cycle? Because that's a dynamic that has been sorely lacking in Calgary asides from when Tkachuk is on the ice.

BT just needs to get another top 6 forward. Kadri would have been creme.

Its easier to a better relative player on a bad team. Neal is the better of the 2 straight up, add in the contract situation and its even clearer who won.

 

[LemmyUlanov55]

That's some Kenny magic right here.

 

[DFC]

Neither can Neal though

Yeah, but Neal can still shoot the puck on the PP. He's only one season removed from 25 goals. I agree that it looks like those days are behind him... but I mean, given the contract, I just don't understand it from the Flames point of view. These players aren't a wash, especially when you consider their contracts.

 

[Smartguy]

Im only guessing here but my thoughts are they must value the slightly lower cap hit over any potential buyout scenario

Not necessarily cap hit, but more way less real dollars. Edmonton is a team with deeper pockets, Calgary saves some real money

 

[Snakepit]

Not necessarily cap hit, but more way less real dollars. Edmonton is a team with deeper pockets, Calgary saves some real money

Does Edmonton have deeper pockets? I thought Calgary's ownership was worth more, granted their ownership group is five guys and Edmonton's is one

 

[BudBundy]

As an Oilers fan I’m just so damned glad I dont have to see 50 variations of “oooh lolol you’ll need to trade Puljujarvi and 2 first rd picks to move Lucic. You guys suck!” anymore.

Hopefully the move works out for both teams and both players. I believe there is a marginal chance Neal will be the better player but Looch still is a deterrent that may provide some value to the Flames.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Not sure if this has already been posted -
In salvage mission, Flames hope Milan Lucic's physical...
(Athletic subscription required)

Lucic comes to the Flames with a no-movement clause. While he waived it temporarily to allow the trade to Calgary, it remains in place moving forward and is a part of his contract through its expiration in 2023.

While that might worry some, considering there’s an expansion draft coming up in two years and players with no-movement clauses have to be protected, Treliving wanted to reassure everyone that he is, indeed, aware of the expansion draft taking place and what the protection rules are.
While it is correct that players with an NMC have to be protected, that’s unless the player agrees to waive it.
(continued in link. He goes in to say that he feels Lucic will waive again for the expansion draft)

As expected, Lucic’s NMC travelled with him in the trade.

I have yet to see a trade (since the new CBA) where a guy with an active NMC lost it. At least that I can remember anyway.

 

[CupInSIX]

Calgary gets an immovable penalty magnet.
Edmonton gets a chance at a scoring winger, and the flexibility of buying him out/demoting him/trading him if he doesn't work out.

Cap hit of almost 2m for 6 years to buy him out next summer.

Don't act like they won't still be stuck with an awful contract if Neal doesn't work out next season.

Plus there's the 750k they retained on Lucic.

 

[Deen]

Not sure if this has already been posted -
In salvage mission, Flames hope Milan Lucic's physical...
(Athletic subscription required)



As expected, Lucic’s NMC travelled with him in the trade.

I have yet to see a trade (since the new CBA) where a guy with an active NMC lost it. At least that I can remember anyway.

Interesting. So they basically got to talk to him and make sure he will waive at the expansion draft. That makes this a little less painful.

 

[cheechoo]

Its easier to a better relative player on a bad team. Neal is the better of the 2 straight up, add in the contract situation and its even clearer who won.

Seems to me like Lucic was being let down by his teammates, while Neal was letting his teammates down. After watching Neal for a year, he is by far one of the worst players I've ever seen play for the Flames. Like he cannot skate whatsoever, and is disgustingly lazy. He just sits in the slot waiting for the puck because he can't do anything else coupling in with the fact that he's a liability defensively

17.55%	EV	BRODZIAK,KYLE - KASSIAN,ZACK - LUCIC,MILAN
8.53%	EV	CHIASSON,ALEX - LUCIC,MILAN - NUGENT-HOPKINS,RYAN
4.92%	EV	LUCIC,MILAN - NUGENT-HOPKINS,RYAN - PULJUJARVI,JESSE
4.83%	EV	CAGGIULA,DRAKE - LUCIC,MILAN - STROME,RYAN
4.62%	EV	CAVE,COLBY - CURRIE,JOSH - LUCIC,MILAN

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

vs

18.54%	EV	BENNETT,SAM - JANKOWSKI,MARK - NEAL,JAMES
8.08%	EV	BACKLUND,MIKAEL - NEAL,JAMES - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
7.23%	EV	GAUDREAU,JOHNNY - MONAHAN,SEAN - NEAL,JAMES
6.76%	EV	JANKOWSKI,MARK - MANGIAPANE,ANDREW - NEAL,JAMES
5.13%	EV	CZARNIK,AUSTIN - JANKOWSKI,MARK - NEAL,JAMES

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lucic drove play better than Neal while playing with inferior linemates, is bigger and fits the team identity more, and is better defensively. I don't mind it.