Confirmed with Link: CBJ sign Sam Gagner: 1 year, $650,000

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I didn't say anything when you first raised the Hartnell buyout issue and it is possible that I don't exactly follow what you are proposing.

Scott Hartnell has his current year and two more remaining on his contract. Gagner has this year only. If you are proposing to make a move concerning these two players at the end of this season, at or about the same time, buying out Hartnell would require two years - and spreading it out for the following 4 years.

If the CBJ would do that, they would have 3 buyouts on the books next year (17-18); Tytuin, Boll, and Hartnell. In 18-19; they would have Tytuin and Hartnell on the books. 19-20 and 20-21 would be Hartnell only.

That's a lot of dead money. You seem certain that the cap is going up, but the Canadian $$ continues to fall. You felt this was all workable. I am just not seeing what you are. Without facts and with less speculation, I might see it, but as now, would probably have to disagree with you.

Note: its possible I just don't understand. I'm an old guy.

You're not just an old guy.

 

[CBJSlash]

I could see him getting resigned for a year at a few million. The bit of salary flexibility in summer 2018 completely goes away though, and that's when signing Gagner means letting another player walk. And I'm not talking about someone like JJ, who's walking is factored in in my book, or a few million in space for the player Las Vegas takes, which is also factored in. I'm talking about an additional player on top of that.

Given Gagner's tenuous position in the league at the start of the season, he's going to be all over a multi-year contract. Given his age and current productivity, he'll get offers of 4 or 5 years. He'd be an idiot not to take them.

This is an example of how to do UFAs right. There are always reclamation projects that come highly motivated and usually sign for one year terms. Other teams build their depth this way. We have never seemed to engage in this market (perhaps vets have preferred to land in spots more likely to win). July 1 is highly overrated, but July 15 - July 30 can be fruitful.

That said, Bjorkstrand should be ready to fill his role by next year.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Given Gagner's tenuous position in the league at the start of the season, he's going to be all over a multi-year contract. Given his age and current productivity, he'll get offers of 4 or 5 years. He'd be an idiot not to take them.

This is an example of how to do UFAs right. There are always reclamation projects that come highly motivated and usually sign for one year terms. Other teams build their depth this way. We have never seemed to engage in this market (perhaps vets have preferred to land in spots more likely to win). July 1 is highly overrated, but July 15 - July 30 can be fruitful.

That said, Bjorkstrand should be ready to fill his role by next year.

I agree if he gets an offer like that he needs to take it. I just hope it's not a CBJ offer. Plus if he gets an offer like that it means he had a great season, not just a great 1/3 of a season.

Look I like the fact that we have an odd duck - a 4th line C who plays on the PP. But like in the past we can't tie up 3-4M dollars in a 4th line C and have the money available to round out the roster. If we sign him for one year and $3M (assuming we have the flexibility) fine, but don't tie up that much money and term on a guy who is by and largely a PP specialist.

 

[EspenK]

I didn't say anything when you first raised the Hartnell buyout issue and it is possible that I don't exactly follow what you are proposing.

Scott Hartnell has his current year and two more remaining on his contract. Gagner has this year only. If you are proposing to make a move concerning these two players at the end of this season, at or about the same time, buying out Hartnell would require two years - and spreading it out for the following 4 years.

If the CBJ would do that, they would have 3 buyouts on the books next year (17-18); Tytuin, Boll, and Hartnell. In 18-19; they would have Tytuin and Hartnell on the books. 19-20 and 20-21 would be Hartnell only.

That's a lot of dead money. You seem certain that the cap is going up, but the Canadian $$ continues to fall. You felt this was all workable. I am just not seeing what you are. Without facts and with less speculation, I might see it, but as now, would probably have to disagree with you.

Note: its possible I just don't understand. I'm an old guy.

Me too. I was saying that we could buyout Hartnell's last year in 2018-19, not at the end of this season. I am assuming 5% increases under the escalation option the players have. I am also assuming Jarmo is judicious in handing out next deals to the young guys. I see (hopefully) more of the kind of deals he gave to Cam, Calvert, Jenner & Murray for the likes of Sedlak, Anderson,Karlsson et al. And we're definitely losing some salary in the expansion draft. I don't think it is a slam dunk, I just think it can be done if both sides want it to happen.

 

[major major]

Me too. I was saying that we could buyout Hartnell's last year in 2018-19, not at the end of this season.

Maybe, but I'll caution specifically against anything that stretches commitments beyond 2019, as the Hartnell buyout would do. If we think we're tight to the cap now, just wait until we have to lock up Bob and Werenski at the same time.

That and who knows if Gagner outplays Hartnell. I certainly don't consider that a foregone conclusion. This is supposedly Gagner's best start ever and I still think Hartnell has been subtly the more valuable player this year.

 

[Kev22]

I don't have the time to read the whole thread, but in my book, this deal would be a candidate for most effective signing in the history of the club. Unbelievable value and production is off the charts right now. Could that change? Sure, but I think from a value standpoint, the contract has paid for itself in the first quarter of the season. Am I wrong?

 

[Monk]

I don't have the time to read the whole thread, but in my book, this deal would be a candidate for most effective signing in the history of the club. Unbelievable value and production is off the charts right now. Could that change? Sure, but I think from a value standpoint, the contract has paid for itself in the first quarter of the season. Am I wrong?

I don't know personally but from reading this thread it sounds to me like he could not score another point and statistically CBJ got their money's worth.

 

[Nanabijou]

I think it's a pretty good indication of how great the CBJ season has been going this year when the hottest debate on these boards right now is whether the Jackets should re-sign Gagner in the off-season.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I don't have the time to read the whole thread, but in my book, this deal would be a candidate for most effective signing in the history of the club. Unbelievable value and production is off the charts right now. Could that change? Sure, but I think from a value standpoint, the contract has paid for itself in the first quarter of the season. Am I wrong?

Who else comes close? At least, signing a guy straight out of free agency and not to a club-friendly extension. I can't think of anything that comes close.

 

[Monk]

Who else comes close? At least, signing a guy straight out of free agency and not to a club-friendly extension. I can't think of anything that comes close.

David Vyborny?

 

[WannabeFinn]

David Vyborny?

That's a good choice. According to this, Vyborny also had a contract valued at $650,000 in the 2002-2003 season. That season he had 20 goals and 46 points, his "breakout" NHL season.

But I think when you consider the salary cap and the player usage, Gagner still takes the cake (assuming he finishes out the season without crapping the bed).

 

[EspenK]

Maybe, but I'll caution specifically against anything that stretches commitments beyond 2019, as the Hartnell buyout would do. If we think we're tight to the cap now, just wait until we have to lock up Bob and Werenski at the same time.

That and who knows if Gagner outplays Hartnell. I certainly don't consider that a foregone conclusion. This is supposedly Gagner's best start ever and I still think Hartnell has been subtly the more valuable player this year.

I'll take Gagner's points over Hartnell's subtleness.

Again, I'm only proposing that we buyout Hartnell's last year
if the $ are needed to sign guys. He isn't going to play forever a la Jagr, imo and the hit would be 1.5 per for two years I think.

As for Bob, anything more than 8 mill per and I say sayonara. Talk about locking up risky dollars for a long time. Werenski will be bridged or signed to a reasonable long term deal.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

He is poaching all of the Jenner goals

 

[major major]

I'll take Gagner's points over Hartnell's subtleness.

Again, I'm only proposing that we buyout Hartnell's last year
if the $ are needed to sign guys. He isn't going to play forever a la Jagr, imo and the hit would be 1.5 per for two years I think.

As for Bob, anything more than 8 mill per and I say sayonara. Talk about locking up risky dollars for a long time. Werenski will be bridged or signed to a reasonable long term deal.

Gagner has only two more points than Hartnell despite playing on the first unit.

Gagner has a 6.45 P/60 on the PP. That's high, but still well less than his three fellow forwards on that unit, who all top 10.0 P/60.

Over the last three seasons, Hartnell has averaged close to double Gagner's PP P/60.

As for 2019, I agree Werenski will be signed to a reasonable long term deal. Something like $7m or $8m. If Bob gets similar then we need money coming completely off the books, not being stretched out through buyouts.

 

[db2011]

I'll take Gagner's points over Hartnell's subtleness.

Again, I'm only proposing that we buyout Hartnell's last year
if the $ are needed to sign guys. He isn't going to play forever a la Jagr, imo and the hit would be 1.5 per for two years I think.

As for Bob, anything more than 8 mill per and I say sayonara. Talk about locking up risky dollars for a long time. Werenski will be bridged or signed to a reasonable long term deal.

the rebuttal could be, then expect to see Anderson's numbers go down, too.

Not that I'm making that rebuttal, and it would be argued. Just making the point that Hartnell's "subtleness" (which I think you mean subtlety there) may well account for more points than Gagner's points when you factor in his role with the kids.

 

[Kev22]

That's a good choice. According to this, Vyborny also had a contract valued at $650,000 in the 2002-2003 season. That season he had 20 goals and 46 points, his "breakout" NHL season.

But I think when you consider the salary cap and the player usage, Gagner still takes the cake (assuming he finishes out the season without crapping the bed).

$650,000 in 02-03 is not equivalent to what it is now. That was a lot of money at that time. Now it's peanuts. Vyborny was at a different stage of his career too. Vyborny was just launching his NHL career, while Gagner is trying to save his.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Gagne is currently 3rd among CBJ forwards in 5vs5 pts/60minutes:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ards&minutes=100&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

He leads the team with 7 5vs5 goals.

 

[WannabeFinn]

$650,000 in 02-03 is not equivalent to what it is now. That was a lot of money at that time. Now it's peanuts. Vyborny was at a different stage of his career too. Vyborny was just launching his NHL career, while Gagner is trying to save his.

I totally agree.

 

[blahblah]

Clearly he's had no impact. Oh I remember this thread....

It will be interesting to see how he finishes out the season. As far as beyond, maybe he'll want to come back. As I said early in the thread, he has a real chance to really improve his game with this team and become a much better player.

 

[Viqsi]

He is poaching all of the Jenner goals

No, no. You're thinking of Anderson.

 

[Monk]

I totally agree.

If Gagner starts wearing a turtleneck, I'll award him the title of "Best CBJ Free Agent Signing." Until then, I have to stick with mah dude Vybes.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

40 pts is Gagner's "average" season when he's centering a scoring line in an offensive role (easier zone starts and better linemates), with plenty of minutes. That's not Gagner's "average" season when he's "playing up and down the lineup" as you put it. When it comes to playing up and down the lineup Gagner has never done it successfully, Vermette has. It's also really weird that you're characterizing Vermette as the "one specific role" kind of player and not Gagner. Historically that has been 100% the opposite. Maybe everything changes this year, but historically it's backwards.



I think you're going to be disappointed. Gagner is relatively slow and weak, compared to both Vermette and NHLers in general.

** Usual disclaimer - since some can't tell, let me make it clear that this isn't opposition to the Gagner signing, I'm just clearing out the nonsense.

Just checking in to gloat... Gagner has already earned his money and we are less than 30 games in baby...