Confirmed Trade: [CAR/PIT] Jake Guentzel (25% retained), Ty Smith for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, 2024 cond. 1st, 2024 cond. 5th

[Dipsy Doodle]

It doesn't matter, though, because the Pens are not going to be competitive for the rest of the Crosby/Malkin era. They are not going to win another cup with this core. It's over. They're better served to dismantle the team for futures bit by bit than they are to try to resign Guentzel for the umpteenth consecutive futile playoff push.

It would've been a joy to see Pens management, for once, try to give both Crosby and Malkin an elite winger to see what the team could do.

But now neither of them have one, so they might as well dismantle it based on Dubas' statements. Better than being in hockey purgatory.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

We’re going to have to just agree to disagree there, I’d take the Canes package all day long.

Regardless, no one offered you the package you wanted! It’s clear you just hate Dubas, so any prospect he acquired is crap and any player he acquired is crap. We get it.

Some think pens got fleeced, some think canes did. I think that probably means it was a fair trade. Yea it was quite a bit for a rental, but he's also the best rental that's been available in years.

 

[orby]

Some think pens got fleeced, some think canes did. I think that probably means it was a fair trade. Yea it was quite a bit for a rental, but he's also the best rental that's been available in years.

I think it's probably a pretty even trade. Canes get the best player available at the deadline for a playoff push. Pens get a good middle 6 winger, 2 guys who are reasonably likely to be NHL caliber players within the next couple of seasons and 1 lottery ticket type player. Time will tell.

 

[Chrispy]

The Canes added an elite winger who's made their team demonstrably better, and didn't even have to give up one of their top 5 prospects or an unconditional 1st to do it. The "top 6 winger" was a 3rd wheel and served as a cap dump. That's highway robbery.

Carolina still has $4.8M in accrued cap space per CapFriendly, and had sufficient space to make this move and Kuznetsov at the deadline without moving Bunting.

Pittsburgh could have retained another $1.5M to make the cap work for Carolina if Dubas didn’t want Bunting back if the numbers were close. There was still space to be made if needed.

You may not like Bunting as part of the return, but calling him a cap dump or claiming he was only there to make the cap work is simply not the case. Carolina could have kept Bunting and still acquired Guentzel and Kuznetsov by having PIT retain more for a couple months.

Dubas values Bunting.

 

[bleedgreen]

Carolina still has $4.8M in accrued cap space per CapFriendly, and had sufficient space to make this move and Kuznetsov at the deadline without moving Bunting.

Pittsburgh could have retained another $1.5M to make the cap work for Carolina if Dubas didn’t want Bunting back if the numbers were close. There was still space to be made if needed.

You may not like Bunting as part of the return, but calling him a cap dump or claiming he was only there to make the cap work is simply not the case. Carolina could have kept Bunting and still acquired Guentzel and Kuznetsov by having PIT retain more for a couple months.

Dubas values Bunting.

There’s no point trying to talk sense to him. He won’t see Bunting as anything as a cap dump, it’s already been pointed out to him that the Canes had the space and didn’t need a cap dump. He thinks our prospects are crap. He just wants to dump on Dubas no matter what.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Carolina still has $4.8M in accrued cap space per CapFriendly, and had sufficient space to make this move and Kuznetsov at the deadline without moving Bunting.

Pittsburgh could have retained another $1.5M to make the cap work for Carolina if Dubas didn’t want Bunting back if the numbers were close. There was still space to be made if needed.

You may not like Bunting as part of the return, but calling him a cap dump or claiming he was only there to make the cap work is simply not the case. Carolina could have kept Bunting and still acquired Guentzel and Kuznetsov by having PIT retain more for a couple months.

Dubas values Bunting.

I'm sure Dubas values Bunting. That was a big part of the problem.

Dubas attributed value to a middle 6 tweener making market value, which meant he didn't have to retain, which meant he kneecapped his potential to get a better futures return.

 

[Chrispy]

I'm sure Dubas values Bunting. That was a big part of the problem.

Dubas attributed value to a middle 6 tweener making market value, which meant he didn't have to retain, which meant he kneecapped his potential to get a better futures return.

So you admit you lied about Bunting being a cap dump to make the deal work.

Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

That is the exact opposite of the consensus across the hockey world. The Pens got worked.

The price was for a playoff run. That's what contenders who have actual Cup aspirations do. They also happened to get a steal of a deal even if Guentzel walks.

The early returns show exactly why he was worth it. He's a gamer who makes any line better, and he does the same thing in the playoffs.

Got worked? Lolz

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So you admit you lied about Bunting being a cap dump to make the deal work.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Are you under the impression that the only way a player can be a cap dump is if there was absolutely no other way a team could have swung the deal?

Got worked? Lolz

Yes.

 

[mattihp]

Ville Koivunen. 4 goals and 1 assist in 3 playoff games. Hattie and one assist today.

 

[poobags]

Ville Koivunen. 4 goals and 1 assist in 3 playoff games. Hattie and one assist today.

Don't even bother. I have it on good authority Koivunen has like a 5% shot of being a good top 6er. Not worth the effort paying attention to him crushing it overseas

 

[bleedgreen]

Don't even bother. I have it on good authority Koivunen has like a 5% shot of being a good top 6er. Not worth the effort paying attention to him crushing it overseas

Apparently he has no chance of being anything more than a third wheel in the top six. It’s science.

 

[T1K]

Then you keep the elite player. This isn't about Dubas personally, its about his asset management in this instance, and the philosophy behind it.

The surest thing from the Canes is a top 6 3rd wheel who is not on a bargain deal, of which the Pens have many. The prospect with the highest ceiling, Koivunen, probably has a 5% chance of being a good - not elite - top 6er...someday.

I'll take the guaranteed elite winger over a top 6 3rd wheel and a grab bag of B/C prospects to throw at the wall, all day every day.

Keep him so he can test the market and we get nothing? Great plan. The Pens have missed the playoffs in b2b years. There’s no way Jake was going to sign an extension. If he’s truly interested in coming back, this trade will have no impact apart from the addition year of term.

 

[PensandCaps]

There’s no point trying to talk sense to him. He won’t see Bunting as anything as a cap dump, it’s already been pointed out to him that the Canes had the space and didn’t need a cap dump. He thinks our prospects are crap. He just wants to dump on Dubas no matter what.

Yah, weird that people think a pretty consistent 40-50 point winger, is a useless cap dump.

Actually think Bunting can be useful on the PP in front, something they've struggled terribly with since Hornqvist left.

 

[mattihp]

Koivunen has been exquisite these playoffs, even when he doesn't score. He wants to dominate the opponents. In Swedish you can say someone has a "fältherreblick" - the gaze of a general.

It must have been 20+ years since Kärpät had a young guy with that quality that gets a chance to use it. Sebastian Aho was a skilled winger, but he did not take over the ice.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yah, weird that people think a pretty consistent 40-50 point winger, is a useless cap dump.

Actually think Bunting can be useful on the PP in front, something they've struggled terribly with since Hornqvist left.

Nobody said he was useless, just that he shouldn't have trade value.

Or are you expecting the likes of Rakell and Smith - also consistent 40-50 point wingers - to have significant trade value?

 

[Darren McCord]

Nobody said he was useless, just that he shouldn't have trade value.

Or are you expecting the likes of Rakell and Smith - also consistent 40-50 point wingers - to have significant trade value?

Significant no but easily worth a 2nd or 3rd. I have not doubt you could move them in the summer for such if you wanted.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Significant no but easily worth a 2nd or 3rd. I have not doubt you could move them in the summer for such if you wanted.

Yeah? Let's see.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah? Let's see.

See what? The penguins also have to want to move them. If Sullivan is still here, they wont move anyone and will just resign Carter, Harkins and more scrubs.

I said they could but I honestly doubt they do anything with their smirky attitudes. The coaching staff is a mess and if the front office leaves them, then it is just a mess and I expect nothing to change.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Lol this thread is just Dipsy complaining for pages

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lol this thread is just Dipsy complaining for pages

Enh, it's a living.

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree with @Dipsy Doodle and we rarely do so it's obvious we are correct here.

Also, it's hilarious that someone above is saying "some people are saying PIT won this trade".

Who in the hell is saying that and how do I get to their house to spank them for their take?

 

[PensandCaps]

Nobody said he was useless, just that he shouldn't have trade value.

Or are you expecting the likes of Rakell and Smith - also consistent 40-50 point wingers - to have significant trade value?

No, but they're not cap dumps, well atleast not Rakell.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No, but they're not cap dumps, well atleast not Rakell.

I think you'll be surprised at how a 31 year old making 5 mil per for the next 4 years, coming off the season he just had (pacing for 16 goals and 42 points over 82 games), considering the advantageous situation he was in (74% o-zone starts mostly beside Crosby and Malkin) is perceived.

Teams are not going to want to take on that contract. Pens will either move him for next to nothing - if not at a loss - or hang onto him and hope he recoups some value. I could see a bottom feeder picking up Smith for a 3rd or 4th, spoon feeding him minutes and hoping to deal him for a 2nd at the deadline with retention.

 

[Peasy]

I agree with @Dipsy Doodle and we rarely do so it's obvious we are correct here.

Also, it's hilarious that someone above is saying "some people are saying PIT won this trade".

Who in the hell is saying that and how do I get to their house to spank them for their take?

Some canes fan that seems to think the prospects they gave up are all locks to be contributing NHLers for 10+ years.