Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR] Jesperi Kotkaniemi signs offersheet with the Hurricanes (1 year, $6.100035M) [Part IV]

[Aurinko]

So what is the general feeling here?
Personally I think the Habs match and hope he somehow earns all that money. Seems like too much potential to wave goodbye to.

I think the more Bergevin uses time searching for centers because of his own mistakes (they let Danault just walk to the fkcing Kings for 5,5M...), the more likely he will come to the conclusion that keeping Kotka and dealing with the cap is easier than trying to land a really good center in market like this...

That would cause some big questions against him and unreasonable pressure for Kotkaniemi, but I think that is actually starting to look more and more likely.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

If the Habs don't match, the risks to the Canes are not low. They could end up with a prolonged struggling young asset who has accelerated salary structure and end up with a contract they might have to buy out. And if the Habs hit with the unprotected 1st, it becomes worse.

I've seen some Canes fans say the 1st and 3rd rounder a meh. Come on man. Nobody is buying that if that's the narrative you want to spin back. Nobody throws around picks like that.

The Hurricanes aren't stuck with anything. If they don't like what they see they can just let him go to UFA. Carolina doesn't have to qualify him. And if he comes in and performs well then that's ultimately a good problem to have.

And teams give up 1st rounders for rentals all the time, the Hurricanes are essentially doing it before the season starts. It would definitely suck if somehow our 1st round pick became a lottery/top 3 pick, but it wouldn't really be the end of the world either. We have good prospects in our system already, and we don't have that many roster slots to fill in the short/long term. It feels like you're trying to make this a bigger issue than it is.

 

[70Stang]

They have to keep him for year if they match...... then he's gone.

 

[DJB]

Such a lose lose for the Habs.

You let him walk and look bad for giving away a recent 3rd overall pick one that in hindsight looks horrendous due to other players available.

But you match and you have yourself a very overpaid 3rd liner who likely never lives up to this contract or his next one either.

If I were Montreal I'd take the picks and admit failure now as opposed to down the road and looking worse.

 

[Lolonegoal]

Any reference to the -15 ratio?

To me it looks like Kotkaniemi did ok:
View attachment 463299

He is no defensive god, but -1 is not too bad. If you look at actual advanced stats , his GF vs. GA ratio is actually above 1. This is a winning player (or at least his lines have done more damage than harm).

In the playoffs he was -5 and played against other teams weakest lines. Worst on the team was -6 that was paired with other teams top lines. He also had a -12 penalty drawn to taken ratio, so he was getting caught out position or retaliating a lot against weak opposition.

I dont know what world his regular season was pretty good either. Find a recent 3rd overall and pick in their third season and show me worst production.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Hurricanes aren't stuck with anything. If they don't like what they see they can just let him go to UFA. Carolina doesn't have to qualify him. And if he comes in and performs well then that's ultimately a good problem to have.

And teams give up 1st rounders for rentals all the time, the Hurricanes are essentially doing it before the season starts. It would definitely suck if somehow our 1st round pick became a lottery/top 3 pick, but it wouldn't really be the end of the world either. We have good prospects in our system already, and we don't have that many roster slots to fill in the short/long term. It feels like you're trying to make this a bigger issue than it is.

More narrative on how a 1st and 3rd is meh and it's an easy decision.

 

[NORiculous]

He was sheltered big time.

Actually he wasn’t sheltered that much, maybe a tad but barely. So I would say he faced decent opposition and drove possession against it. Seemed promising to me.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

72% say no match.
Using Dvorak, weird stats, Disney references and 4 of his fingers to back it up.
This place will be way funnier if they match.

If Habs match they will then have another unreliable 6.1M playing 12mins a night but we have Drouin already that's been doing that for a while, so over 11M worth for 2 players on our bottom lines. MB's got the purple suits though. Everything is fine.

 

[bleedgreen]

If he isn't qualified he becomes a UFA.

Carolina may indeed have told KK they have an extension ready for him, but what's KK's incentive to take a big discount from the $5-6 million QO without testing the open market?

Carolina will be battling against the leverage they gave to the player themselves next year. Maybe the team promises to slot him into the 2C slot when Trocheck is done, but Bergevin already promised him the 2C slot this coming season in Montreal!

Lol I know what happens if he isn’t qualified.

The incentive is he’s playing on a team that has a clear role for him that’s contending and wants to pay him the extension. If the 6.1 is as ludicrous as it sounds then who the hell is going to pay it if the Canes don’t qualify him? If that extension is already in place for January this whole thing is already planned. Of course he can back out and try to make that much more as a ufa, but it’s hard for him to find a better situation than the Canes. Contending, clearly want him, have a number of guys with contracts up next year so there’s going to be a spot for him, he’s buddies with Aho, and we paid him double just to free him from Montreal. If he can find him another team to treat him better good for him, but I think the odds of him staying with the Canes as of today are pretty damn good.

They had to overpay him to get Montreal not to match. Yes it’s outrageous pay but the Canes have the cash and they know the situation better than you and I do. If they weren’t comfortable with the QO situation they wouldn’t have done this.

Montreal sat him in the playoffs. We paid him double when he didn’t deserve it. I think he’ll choose us over Bergevins promise if he actually made it.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Actually he wasn’t sheltered that much, maybe a tad but barely. So I would say he faced decent opposition and drove possession against it. Seemed promising to me.

I remember thinking that he improved in the Playoffs, so there is definitely hope. 'Canes still are taking a huge gamble. Just my opinion of course.

Also, I think 'Canes didn't need him. They have plenty of quality centers. Maybe to replace Jordan Stall when he's gone ?

 

[japhi]

Actually he wasn’t sheltered that much, maybe a tad but barely. So I would say he faced decent opposition and drove possession against it. Seemed promising to me.

63% ozone starts and Danault was taking draws for him in the playoffs.
Which is fine he’s a young player. But he was clearly insulated

 

[japhi]

If Habs match they will then have another unreliable 6.1M playing 12mins a night but we have Drouin already that's been doing that for a while, so over 11M worth for 2 players on our bottom lines. MB's got the purple suits though. Everything is fine.

Recent cup run, all of our picks plus some, top 10 prospect pool. Everything is fine, despite your feelings about MB.

 

[sheed36]

You doubt KK’s relationship with the Habs is strained? What about the info that came out that he said he had played his last game as a Hab? What about the negotiations on a contract that went nowhere with Bergevin, opening the door to Carolina’s OS? Was that just a happenstance?

KK has been benched, seen his TOI dwindle, was played on the wing repeatedly, was demoted to lower lines, seen his assignments reduced and was taken out of playoff games. His negotiations on a new contract were at an impasse for a reason — he wants out.

Maybe KK and his agent were contacted fairly early after FA opened by the Canes about a OS coming his way but told him that they would try and trade for him first and if they couldn't make a trade they would then make this OS.

Probably not likely but it could be possible right and that could maybe be a reason why KK and the Habs couldn't agree on a contract since KK and his agent knew this OS was coming so why would he sign with the Habs.

I do agree though that KK wants out and would rather move on.

 

[duckpuck]

Whichever team ends up with Kotkaniemi has no bargaining leverage as they would with a traditional RFA. If he doesn't like what they're offering, or simply feels that another team may offer more, he's under no obligation to extend during the season and can either wait for his 6.100035 million dollar qualifying offer, or become an unrestricted free agent.

You're ignoring the team's perspective. The team is overpaying, in part, because these are short term commitments. If they don't reach a longer term agreement, they will continue to control Kotkaniemi in 1-2 year increments at a slightly higher salary. The shorter term (i.e., lower long term risk) compensates for the overpay (to some extent). Look at the dodgers deal for trevor bauer - they paid a premium annual salary because the terms was short.

It seems likely to me that at some point they reach a longer term deal at "market" which balances the risk. But the team has optionality which is valuable.

Trolling another fan base when we are not really that hurt by it is comical. That icing you are talking about could be very tasty or it could taste like shit if the Habs don't match and it backfires on them... if KK continues to struggle and the Habs hit with the unprotected 1st. This offer sheet is not entirely one sided like you think it is

If he continues to struggle, they will let him go (or perhaps sign him at a lower number). The sunk costs are the first and third - not a huge deal.

And I never said it was a one sided proposition. I said I understand the logic behind it.

OS are rare but not for reasons you mentioned. GM take care of their business when the player wants to play there, players have a lot of bargaining power and gms cave in, and so on.

Not all GMs cave. The ducks have done an unbelievable job with rfas (not so good with UFAs). But I think the Marner and Mathhews contracts have changed the dynamic a bit. Teams are now paying "core" younger players more and older players less.

 

[Lempo]

I'm not 100% sure offer sheets work that way and I'm getting mixed messages. One guy says you submit an offer and you can't talk and then I see your post. Hard to know the truth

What "offer sheet" officially is, is a notification to the Prior Club that the Player and The New Club have agreed to terms to sign a SPC and send those terms to the Prior Club for them to use or not use their Right of First Refusal. The official form is in the CBA Exhibit 6.

EXHIBIT 6

FORM OF OFFER SHEET

OFFER SHEET
Name and Address of Player:
Name and Address of Player's Certified Agent, if any:
Prior Club:
New Club:

[New Club] hereby offers to enter into an NHL Standard Player's Contract ("SPC") with Player containing the following Principal Terms:

1. Term of SPC:
2. Signing, Reporting, or Roster Bonus (if any): $
3. Paragraph 1 NHL Salary for each year of SPC: $
4. Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary, if any, for each year of SPC: $ ____________________________ ____________________________

Signature of Player
Signature of [New Club] Executive Print Name:
Title: __________________ Date

cc: Central Registry NHLPA [Prior Club]

In CBA 10.2 (a)(i)(A) "Group 2 player" (your regular Restricted Free Agent) is defined thusly:

Any Player who meets the qualifications set forth in the following chart and: (1) is not a Group 1 Player or a Group 4 Player, and (2) is not an Unrestricted Free Agent, shall be deemed to be a "Group 2 Player" and shall, at the expiration of his SPC, become a Restricted Free Agent. Any such Player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any such Player, subject to the provisions set forth in this Section.

What has happened before the CBA 6 Offer Sheet form is sent to the Prior Club, is that the Player (or more correctly his Agent) has negotiated the terms with the would-be New Club and agreed to them.

The innocent Player just don't find an SPC proposition in his mailbox one day, and sign it in a moment of weakness. People just seem to want to take any and all culpability away from the Player who most often will continue his career in the Prior Club after having signed with another Club.

I tell you man these Finnish dark elves have been up to the hilt in it.

 

[HOPE]

Such a lose lose for the Habs.

You let him walk and look bad for giving away a recent 3rd overall pick one that in hindsight looks horrendous due to other players available.

But you match and you have yourself a very overpaid 3rd liner who likely never lives up to this contract or his next one either.

If I were Montreal I'd take the picks and admit failure now as opposed to down the road and looking worse.

but signing Tkachuk to 7M contract would be a W am i doing it right?

 

[swiftwin]

No, the Canes would also lose a 3rd Overall for which they paid a 1st and 3rd on top of an insane amount of money to pry him away from his drafting team.

He's the same player with the same draft pedigree, coming with the same consequences if he does not deliver not matter what team he ends up with.

In that scenario Habs would do good and Canes ended up on the bad side of a calculated risk, but risk nonetheless.

No, because the Canes didn't use a 3rd overall pick to acquire Kotkaniemi. The Habs did. The Canes only used a late 1st and a 3rd to acquire him.

The contract doesn't matter because it's the same for either team.

Basically, the Canes went from zero risk zero reward to high risk high reward
While the Habs went from low risk high reward to high risk high reward

The Canes only paid the same the Leafs did for Foligno (a pure rental). Plus a high salary for one season. For the potential reward for a good 2c for many many years to come. Totally a risk worth taking.

 

[Chips]

More narrative on how a 1st and 3rd is meh and it's an easy decision.

Teams mortgage the future a little bit risking picks all the time, this isn’t hard. As has been pointed out numerous times these threads, the Canes already have a solid talent pool for the future, and will have more first round picks in the future. It’s not the end of the world if they lose him.

the risk isn’t just for a player, it’s to get that player sooner. A mid or late first is never a guarantee to be an NHL player, and would quite possible still take a while. The chance is that he’ll turn into at least a solid 3rd line C, maybe a second liner and possible on a better deal should they have to move somebody in the next few years. They’re banking on a fresh start (and age, and less pressure to be “the” guy. Basically none.) allowing him to improve as some players do,

and they’re banking that his friendship with his countrymen and the team being solid will be enough that he’d like to stay and work within the teams framework

 

[JRichard]

Lol I know what happens if he isn’t qualified.

The incentive is he’s playing on a team that has a clear role for him that’s contending and wants to pay him the extension. If the 6.1 is as ludicrous as it sounds then who the hell is going to pay it if the Canes don’t qualify him? If that extension is already in place for January this whole thing is already planned. Of course he can back out and try to make that much more as a ufa, but it’s hard for him to find a better situation than the Canes. Contending, clearly want him, have a number of guys with contracts up next year so there’s going to be a spot for him, he’s buddies with Aho, and we paid him double just to free him from Montreal. If he can find him another team to treat him better good for him, but I think the odds of him staying with the Canes as of today are pretty damn good.

They had to overpay him to get Montreal not to match. Yes it’s outrageous pay but the Canes have the cash and they know the situation better than you and I do. If they weren’t comfortable with the QO situation they wouldn’t have done this.

Montreal sat him in the playoffs. We paid him double when he didn’t deserve it. I think he’ll choose us over Bergevins promise if he actually made it.

They also sat Caufield and Romanov to play Staal, Merrill, Gustafsson. Lost their head coach to covid. And still ended up with wins.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

What's the official deadline the Habs have to match by, if they do end up matching?

 

[Frank Drebin]

What's the official deadline the Habs have to match by, if they do end up matching?

I would imagine we hear something Saturday. I believe the offer was tendered around 17:00.

 

[JRichard]

Recent cup run, all of our picks plus some, top 10 prospect pool. Everything is fine, despite your feelings about MB.

Wow you love life. I’d consider Weber’s health, Danault’s departure, cap situation, Drouin’s mental issues before past playoff (because last 2 regular seasons were underwhelming right? 31-40 and 24-32 is not playoff worthy stats in non-covid universe) success, having picks and a nice prospect pool. Be bold, call it top 3 prospect pool. Its 100% subjective anyway.

 

[Brown Cat]

Haha, time for thread 5

 

[Lempo]

What's the official deadline the Habs have to match by, if they do end up matching?

(a) When a Restricted Free Agent receives an offer to sign an SPC from any Club (the "New Club") other than his Prior Club, which offer the Player desires to accept, he shall give to the Prior Club, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a completed certificate substantially in the form of Exhibit 6 attached hereto (the "Offer Sheet"), signed by the Restricted Free Agent and the New Club, which shall contain the "Principal Terms" (as defined below) as well as all other terms of compensation of the New Club's offer. The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, which shall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted Free Agent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign its Right of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.

Assuming that Montreal received it on August 28, I would guess Saturday September 4 at 23.59 pm ET, by sending this form to the Player and his Agent:

EXHIBIT 7
FORM OF FIRST REFUSAL EXERCISE NOTICE

FIRST REFUSAL EXERCISE NOTICE
Name and Address of Player:
Name and Address of Player's Certified Agent, if any:
Prior Club:
New Club:

[Prior Club] hereby exercises its Right of First Refusal so as to create a binding agreement with Player based on an NHL Standard Player's Contract containing the Principal Terms set forth in the attached Offer Sheet.
__________________ ____________________________
Date
Signature of [Prior Club] Executive
Print Name:
Title:

cc: Central Registry NHLPA [New Club]

The procedure in the CBA:

(b) If the Prior Club gives the Restricted Free Agent and his Certified Agent, if any, notice, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, that it is exercising its Right of First Refusal (a "First Refusal Exercise Notice"), such notice to be substantially in the form of Exhibit 7 attached hereto, to the Player's and his Certified Agent's, if any, e-mail address listed on the Offer Sheet, if any, within the seven (7) day period, such Restricted Free Agent and the Prior Club shall be deemed to have entered into a binding agreement, which they shall promptly formalize in an SPC, containing: (i) all the Principal Terms (subject to subsection (e) below); and (ii) such additional terms as may be agreed upon between the Restricted Free Agent and the Prior Club. The Prior Club may not Trade that Restricted Free Agent for a period of one year from the date it exercises its Right of First Refusal.

General about the CBA notifications:

EXHIBIT 3 CBA NOTICES

Except where this Agreement expressly requires a different form of service, any service of notice to be provided pursuant to the CBA will be effectuated in accordance with this Exhibit 3 (including if a provision is silent in referencing Exhibit 3 or with respect to the method for service of notice). Any notices sent to the NHL, Central Registry, an NHL Club, the NHLPA, a Player, or a Certified Agent shall use the contact information and method of service set forth below.

1. Notice to the NHL shall be effectuated electronically (by e-mail) to [email protected]. In the event that such electronic notice is not possible (e.g., no Internet service), the default mechanism for delivery shall be by facsimile, attention: NHL Legal Department, to: (212) 789-2050 (primary fax) or (212) 789-2030 (secondary fax).

2. Notice to Central Registry shall be effectuated either electronically (by e-mail) to [email protected], or by facsimile to: (514) 841-1060 (primary fax) or (514) 841-1050 (secondary fax).

3. Notice to any NHL Club shall be effectuated electronically (by e-mail). In the event that electronic notice is not possible (e.g., no Internet service), the default mechanism for delivery shall be by facsimile. The NHL shall, within three (3) business days following the execution of this Agreement, provide to the NHLPA, in electronic format, a comprehensive list (the "NHL Club List"), which shall set forth each NHL Club's mailing address, telephone and facsimile number(s) and the e-mail address to be used for all electronic notices delivered to the Club. The NHL shall thereafter promptly provide to the NHLPA, in electronic format, any additions, deletions or other modifications to the NHL Club List, and by the first Tuesday of each month following a month in which a change has been made, an updated current and complete NHL Club List. The NHLPA will not distribute publicly the NHL Club List or the contents therein, and may not post the NHL Club List or its contents on any publicly accessible website. The NHLPA may distribute the NHL Club List to its Players and Certified Agents, and to no other recipients, and shall advise all recipients of the NHL Club List that they are prohibited from distributing such List publicly or the contents therein, and may not post such List or its contents on any publicly accessible website.

4. Notice to the NHLPA shall be effectuated electronically (by e-mail) to [email protected]. In the event that electronic notice is not possible (e.g., no Internet service), the default mechanism for delivery shall be by facsimile, attention: NHLPA Legal Department, to: (416) 313-2301 (primary fax), or (416) 313-2403 (secondary fax).

5. Notice to a Player shall be effectuated electronically (by e-mail) as follows: the notice to the Player shall maintain the confidentiality of the Player's e-mail address by blind copying the Player on the e-mail. In the event that electronic notice is not possible (e.g., no Internet service, no e-mail address provided, wrong e-mail address), the notice may be effectuated by hand delivery or through the Player's Certified Agent or, if the Player does not have a Certified Agent, through the NHLPA.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Teams mortgage the future a little bit risking picks all the time, this isn’t hard. As has been pointed out numerous times these threads, the Canes already have a solid talent pool for the future, and will have more first round picks in the future. It’s not the end of the world if they lose him.

the risk isn’t just for a player, it’s to get that player sooner. A mid or late first is never a guarantee to be an NHL player, and would quite possible still take a while. The chance is that he’ll turn into at least a solid 3rd line C, maybe a second liner and possible on a better deal should they have to move somebody in the next few years. They’re banking on a fresh start (and age, and less pressure to be “the” guy. Basically none.) allowing him to improve as some players do,

and they’re banking that his friendship with his countrymen and the team being solid will be enough that he’d like to stay and work within the teams framework

I'm not interested in more 1st and 3rd rounders as meh pieces you just throw around. KK is not some beast deadline guy that gives you a better shot at a cup. Keep trying with that narrative but with someone else please.

And one last thing, when teams trade 1st, it's usually with protection or it's at a deadline and you have very good indication where the pick will be and how the prospect are in that draft cause it's closer to the draft.

This is not some low risk move. Sorry, You can talk on and and on about it and you won't change my mind