Confirmed with Link: Caps trade for Mantha for Vrana, Panik, 2021 1st, 22 2nd

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AlexBrovechkin8

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Posted this as a response in the Around the NHL thread but I'll repost here: through three games Mantha leads all forwards on the team in CF%, HDCF%, and is second (behind Sprong) in xGF% but he has the lowest on-ice shooting percentage among all forwards as well which is muting his production for those who think that if a forward isn't scoring they're not playing well. Mantha has been a beast but has been very unlucky. There are lots of things we could discuss as to why they're down 2-1 in the series but the play of Mantha is at the very bottom of that list.

Also, play Sprong more.
 

trick9

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Jun 2, 2013
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Probably not the only player. As you can see from the post Chara-Jensen have very good stats 5v5. The only one in the top 6 and its impressive that he is so far ahead of his linemates. I would guess the 4th line has a pretty decent stat aswell and Eller/Raffl also have looked efficient 5v5.

Dowd 8-11
Hathaway 6-9
Hagelin 6-10
Eller 1-4
Raffl 4-10

4th line isn't that bad IMO considering they aren't your usual 4th line that gets the favourable match-ups.

Daniel Carr is actually at 3-0. :laugh:
 

g00n

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Probably not the only player. As you can see from the post Chara-Jensen have very good stats 5v5. The only one in the top 6 and its impressive that he is so far ahead of his linemates. I would guess the 4th line has a pretty decent stat aswell and Eller/Raffl also have looked efficient 5v5.

Mantha is the only forward listed in the post as positive. That's what I was pointing out. I don't have the source so may be trick can answer your questions.

edit: looks like he just did. And still looks like Mantha is the only forward of note in the plus column.
 

AussieCapsFan

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Posted this as a response in the Around the NHL thread but I'll repost here: through three games Mantha leads all forwards on the team in CF%, HDCF%, and is second (behind Sprong) in xGF% but he has the lowest on-ice shooting percentage among all forwards as well which is muting his production for those who think that if a forward isn't scoring they're not playing well. Mantha has been a beast but has been very unlucky. There are lots of things we could discuss as to why they're down 2-1 in the series but the play of Mantha is at the very bottom of that list.

Also, play Sprong more.

Yeah I like Mantha - I just want him to shoot and NOT pass. He's a goal scorer.

Edit: and so is Sprong. So more shooters less passers
 

Hivemind

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If Vrana was still around he might be getting the Sprong treatment given Lavi's third line decisions and his general mentality. One can debate the merits of that and whether it's viable. It's possible they end up purging their two fastest finesse top sixers in Vrana and Kuznetsov for a coach whose shelf life may not last very long (and whose systematic approach with skilled players looks at least a bit questionable).

The bolded is a prescient point. Lavi's results don't get better over time. His best results are produced in the first 1-2 years with a team. If this is our Lavi bump, the future years might be ugly. Making roster decisions around who he's agreeing with in the locker room may prove to be a mistake in the long run.

Moreover, discipline is important. But the point is use discipline to improve results and develop players. It's not to alienate your players with it. I don't want to speculate too much about events we have scarce details on, but there are some flashbacks here to Lavi's time in Philadelphia, and him losing faith in core players there that went on to have success elsewhere.

Lavi should have been able to work with Kuzy and develop Vrana's play, rather than causing regression.

As for Mantha to me his 5-on-5 hockey IQ and anticipation remains better than his linemates most of the time. Mentally he seems a step ahead whereas for Backstrom much of the time it's just a slog these days. You'd like for Mantha to just take over with his size now and then but his playmaking is still valuable. His linemates often haven't had much to contribute, mainly due to lacking pace to open up ice to attack more dangerously. The price was rich but even as more of a cycler/playmaker and PP2 shooter the value is fine IMO. A lot of things could be better from an execution standpoint from the top-six to get in better positions to produce. He's had chances he needs to bury but at least he's getting them. I'm a lot more concerned with the core play from 8, 19, 74 and 92 regardless of whatever injuries they're nursing. It's mind over matter season and their ability to control play looks all but lost much of the time.

I don't really buy that Mantha's hockey IQ is one of his stronger assets. In game 1 in this series, in particular, he was far far too passive. He always plays somewhat similar to Ovie, in the respect that he gets to open or high danger ice and wants his teammates to feed him the puck. And that simply wasn't working on a line with Ovechkin. There were plays in which he could have elongated a cycle by skating beneath a goal line to provide Backstrom an outlet, and instead he just camped the crease with Ovie and let Backstrom get swarmed by 3 Bruins. He finished G1 with 0 attempted shots. His play improved in games 2 and 3 (before regressing again in game 4), but most of his scoring opportunities were coming off the rush. That's a definite improvement (and he was one of the few generating chances), but rush chances aren't exactly high IQ plays. And even his powerplay decision making seems awfully unsure right now. In each of the past 2 games he's had moments where he's isolated on the half wall and just freezes up for 10+ seconds hoping for something to happen rather than cycling to the down low option or changing the angle to get a pass to the point.

Not to mention his zero IQ play of running Rask in the 3rd.

I'm absolutely concerned with the play of the core as well, but that's not going to change the diagnosis of Mantha either.
 

RandyHolt

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Nov 3, 2006
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thread locked at 10p really

I appreciate Mantha running the goalie twice but he should do that when the goalie is killing us - we are barely even getting any shots on him.
 
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g00n

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thread locked at 10p really

I appreciate Mantha running the goalie twice but he should do that when the goalie is killing us - we are barely even getting any shots on him.

Guessing lock is to clean up some trolling but not sure. Lot of people in there.
 

Scorlov

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How can this guy, so skilled, big and fast play such a neutered game?

1200px-Viktor_Kozlov.jpg
 

g00n

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Anyone who thinks Vrana would've changed this series from 4 games of horrid team play to a series win is not being honest.

Mantha was disappointing when it comes to goals but I can see what GMBM expects from the guy.

That said I don't care if they blow up the whole squad this offseason except Ovie, Wilson, and Oshie.
 
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g00n

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Yes I will talk about the Mantha trade in the thread about the Mantha trade.

And nothing else. In every other thread, too.

Vrana's gone. Get over it. He wouldn't have saved the Caps this year, no matter how disappointed you are in Mantha.
 

Scorlov

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Vrana could have probably tilted one of the OT games at least. Their defense was struggling with speed which is why the 4th line did as well as they had. Even Vrana's biggest haters will admit that he's an excellent opportunity attacker and great at turning broken plays at the red line into rushes the other way.

Nothing wrong with Mantha except he's the last type of player the team needed as they were constructed. Adding him exacerbated their weakness while not adding much in terms of strength. And paying as much as they had for lateral production from a similarly known inconsistent player is franchise crushing
 

g00n

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Vrana could have probably tilted one of the OT games at least. Their defense was struggling with speed which is why the 4th line did as well as they had. Even Vrana's biggest haters will admit that he's an excellent opportunity attacker and great at turning broken plays at the red line into rushes the other way.

Nothing wrong with Mantha except he's the last type of player the team needed as they were constructed. Adding him exacerbated their weakness while not adding much in terms of strength. And paying as much as they had for lateral production from a similarly known inconsistent player is franchise crushing

The 4th line did well because they got the puck deep, played with heart, and worked well together. This was not a series of breakaways going either way. It was about physical play creating opportunities, and it was about good passing and teamwork. Caps 4th line excelled because they did the dirty work.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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Vrana could have probably tilted one of the OT games at least. Their defense was struggling with speed which is why the 4th line did as well as they had. Even Vrana's biggest haters will admit that he's an excellent opportunity attacker and great at turning broken plays at the red line into rushes the other way.

Nothing wrong with Mantha except he's the last type of player the team needed as they were constructed. Adding him exacerbated their weakness while not adding much in terms of strength. And paying as much as they had for lateral production from a similarly known inconsistent player is franchise crushing

Those opportunities you’re referring to didn’t exist. The Bruins controlled the neutral zone for most of the series. Most of the goals we scored were off of turnovers, and you have to work to create turnovers.

Vrana wouldn’t have helped at all, he didn’t help since 2018 and even at his best it still wouldn’t be enough
 
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mad4comp

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Anyone who thinks Vrana would've changed this series from 4 games of horrid team play to a series win is not being honest.

Mantha was disappointing when it comes to goals but I can see what GMBM expects from the guy.

That said I don't care if they blow up the whole squad this offseason except Ovie, Wilson, and Oshie.

Maybe not, but he would of had a few breakaways and would have improved the zone entries. Sprong and Sheary were the only ones that could routinely enter the zoom and attempt to keep the puck.

Plus it would have forced the Bruins to back off on offense in an attempt to slow down vrana.

Mantha unfortunately bought nothing of value to the table. His lazy (and terrible) passing, missing the net on every shot, giveaways etc... basically amplified the teams problems.

Keep Hagelin and Hathaway. Trade or Expose Oshie/Carlson/Dillon. Don't bring back anderson/chara/lundqvist Call up the youngin's from Hershey and roll with it next year.

If the Pens can keep calling up no names every year and succeeding, so can we.
 

mad4comp

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Those opportunities you’re referring to didn’t exist. The Bruins controlled the neutral zone for most of the series. Most of the goals we scored were off of turnovers, and you have to work to create turnovers.

Vrana wouldn’t have helped at all, he didn’t help since 2018 and even at his best it still wouldn’t be enough

Those opportunities didn't exist because we didn't have anyone that could get behind their defense. The bruins entire team could get behind ours (and did quite a few times). You can have the slowest defense in the world and expect to succeed. Chara/Dillon need to be gone asap.
 

Dr John Carlson

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I'm ready to say it; this trade was honestly a huge mistake by MacLellan.

Not because of the players or the picks, I think Mantha is definitely a better player than Vrana, but I just want this trade to be reversed so that I don't have to deal with obsessed Mantha posters for the next four years. Firable offense by MacLellan, actively hurting my enjoyment of this board.
 

Scorlov

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May 17, 2021
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Those opportunities you’re referring to didn’t exist. The Bruins controlled the neutral zone for most of the series. Most of the goals we scored were off of turnovers, and you have to work to create turnovers.

Vrana wouldn’t have helped at all, he didn’t help since 2018 and even at his best it still wouldn’t be enough

The Bruins controlled the neutral zone because no one other than the 4th line had the wheels to put them on their heels challenge them. Their defense is pretty green and got bailed out by having superior mobility to our attacking forwards.

Why since 2018? Did Vrana do something noteworthy in 2018, I forget
 

DrewGl

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I think we will live to regret this trade. The Vrana doesnt show up in the playoffs thing doesnt really sell now that our entire team didnt this year. We also had a guy that we let go to Colorado that did show up in the playoffs. Team is old and time to rebuild.
 
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