Speculation: Caps Hockey General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2017-18 Regular Season Edition

[Alexander the Gr8]

Little unfair considering where this team was the last couple years. If we had done what you said, people would have gone nuts for wasting our best possible teams.

We made necessary sacrifices to maximize the potential of the previous two teams. It didn't work, but if I was GMBM and had to do it all over again, I'd take the same approach.

 

[Hivemind]

The last two years were obviously "all-in" seasons, and I'm generally fine with the philosophy they had at managing them. Plenty of room for gripes about the specific targets and moves they made, but the philosophy of spending assets to maximize their chances when Kuznetsov, Orlov, Burakovsky, and Oshie were cheap is the right call.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Little unfair considering where this team was the last couple years. If we had done what you said, people would have gone nuts for wasting our best possible teams.

All I did was make a sarcastic comment acknowledging our shallow prospect pool. I didn't say they shouldn't have done what they did... I'm just making light of a currently sub-optimal situation.

 

[Langway]

It wouldn't even be so bad that they went all-in if they knew how to manufacture quality forwards in general. As-is you've got a number of stopgap types in the lineup with flaky tools/IQ and others like Wilson who'll have to make pronounced jumps in decision-making and productivity.

The big challenge for Trotz now with 65 out is somehow manufacturing quality offensive team play to where the sum is greater than the parts. I'm pretty skeptical that they're capable of that. They're mainly just going to try to lock it down and play disciplined but they're going to have to get more effective team play and cohesion as well. They can't just put the burden on Bowey and Djoos helping to lock it down. They also need these more experienced, supposedly stabilizing, forwards to be far more cohesive than they have been on most nights.

 

[Brian23]

Little unfair considering where this team was the last couple years. If we had done what you said, people would have gone nuts for wasting our best possible teams.

The drafting they have done has been pretty shit too though. They keep taking the same kind of defenseman over and over and over again. That's why we don't even have very many bottom 9 type prospects to fill in for these injuries.

 

[Ridley Simon]

*****SNOOZE ALERT*****SNOOZE ALERT*****SNOOZE ALERT*****SNOOZE ALERT*****

We will probably see a *very* restrictive offensive set up. I'm assuming the forwards will now be asked to play a lot more defensively (which is probably not a bad idea as they are not an overall "offensively creative" group). Lots and lots of D help from the F's, which will lead to some snoozer games.

Try and get the lead, and Turtle hard. Count on the PP as a huge part of the overall offense, and stop 5on5 from becoming an uphill (upice?) battle all game. Lots of counter punching. .

Formula will be to win games 3-2, with a PP goal (or 2) as the deciding factor. You know...full on Trotz Hockey.

At least he's good at it. Whereas when Boudreau tried it, it was fugly.

 

[ovikovy817]

Ottawa made it to the ECF last year playing that way.

 

[Brian23]

Ottawa made it to the ECF last year playing that way.

Difference is they have an All-Worldly talent on the backend to push the pace forward within the confines of that system.

 

[hockeykicker]

Eller is taking burakovsky pp sport per Isabelle

 

[Langway]

Try and get the lead, and Turtle hard. Count on the PP as a huge part of the overall offense, and stop 5on5 from becoming an uphill (upice?) battle all game. Lots of counter punching.

I don't think they have the effective team speed to play a counter game but otherwise I suspect this is pretty accurate. It's not unlike their Trotz Year 1 game plan.

 

[Hivemind]

Trotz year 1 game plan was pretty heavily dependent on sustained offensive zone possession (even if they didn't result in quality scoring chances). The Chimera/Fehr/Ward line and constant cycling being the most obvious example, but all of the non-Ovechkin lines participated in the practice to an extent. Lots of talk of playing a "heavy" game back then.

This Caps team isn't built to play like that. Eller and Beagle can sustain it, but they would have to replace guys like Connolly and Walker with someone else. Even Graovac and Wilson are questionable in their ability to paly prolonged cycle games.

They're caught in an awkward limbo between having offensive players who are best suited to play a transition-style game and not having the ability to break-out of their own zone without the help of forwards dropping back to support (thus removing their ability to attack through the neutral zone with speed and play an aggressive transition game).

 

[MrGone]

We made necessary sacrifices to maximize the potential of the previous two teams. It didn't work, but if I was GMBM and had to do it all over again, I'd take the same approach.

I am fine with this but its time to let go. Stop thinking like this could be the year. And start thinking about the teams future.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I am fine with this but its time to let go. Stop thinking like this could be the year. And start thinking about the teams future.

Obviously the goal is not to go all-in this year again, it's to build for the future. Any playoff sucess this year will be a bonus. I won't be upset at all if we lose in the first or second round again.

 

[Langway]

This Caps team isn't built to play like that. Eller and Beagle can sustain it, but they would have to replace guys like Connolly and Walker with someone else. Even Graovac and Wilson are questionable in their ability to paly prolonged cycle games.

Walker can do it...or at least is willing to do that dirty work. He may not be overly effective against all defenders depending on strength/size but he's willing. The bottom six has no real identity and can't play much of a skill game so they're going to have to add substance somehow.

With Wilson and Chiasson in the top six now heaviness and net presence kind of has to be a bigger part of their game. I don't think they'll be that great at it and they don't have a Ward to dominate the boards--Eller could be closest when on--but they're unlikely to be able to skill their way either. Efforting seems like the Trotz solution. It's less sheer heaviness than more of a grinder work ethic generally. If Trotz can't get more of that out of them I'm not sure he can add other, more subtle wrinkles to their game.

 

[Hivemind]

Walker can do it...or at least is willing to do that dirty work. He may not be overly effective against all defenders depending on strength/size but he's willing. The bottom six has no real identity and can't play much of a skill game so they're going to have to add substance somehow.

Walker is willing, but I don't see him being particularly effective in a down-low grind game. He's got impressive lower body strength for a player his size, but he's not going to consistently win board battles (or especially win board battles cleanly enough to establish a cycle along the walls).

With Wilson and Chiasson in the top six now heaviness and net presence kind of has to be a bigger part of their game. I don't think they'll be that great at it and they don't have a Ward to dominate the boards--Eller could be closest when on--but they're unlikely to be able to skill their way either. Efforting seems like the Trotz solution. It's less sheer heaviness than more of a grinder work ethic generally. If Trotz can't get more of that out of them I'm not sure he can add other, more subtle wrinkles to their game.

The problem is that neither top six line is particularly built to grind effectively. Obviously a Ovechkin/Kuznetsov line is the complete antithesis of that, regardless of who the third wheel is. You can make a case for Backstrom/Oshie slowing down the pace and making effective plays along the walls, but Backstrom is better utilized in the middle of the ice and using his distribution skills to take full advantage of what the opponent is willing to give up.

 

[um]

Vadim Shipachyov is available for a trade, maybe something around Eller for Shipachyov (1 Million retained = 3.5M). Of course I know almost nothing about Shipachyov so this is assuming GMBM believes he can produce in the NHL, and we do need offense in our bottom 6, much more than we need another good PKer. We would have a few character references of him as well (Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Orlov).

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Vadim Shipachyov is available for a trade, maybe something around Eller for Shipachyov (1 Million retained = 3.5M). Of course I know almost nothing about Shipachyov so this is assuming GMBM believes he can produce in the NHL, and we do need offense in our bottom 6, much more than we need another good PKer. We would have a few character references of him as well (Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Orlov).

I doubt Vegas would say yes, but I'd love to have Ship here. He's a really good player, can easily produce 40 to 50 points in the NHL IMO.

 

[Hivemind]

Vadim Shipachyov is available for a trade, maybe something around Eller for Shipachyov (1 Million retained = 3.5M). Of course I know almost nothing about Shipachyov so this is assuming GMBM believes he can produce in the NHL, and we do need offense in our bottom 6, much more than we need another good PKer. We would have a few character references of him as well (Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Orlov).

I'd rather have Eller's expiring contract than another year on the books.

Vegas also isn't likely going to want to retain, given they only have 2 retention spots remaining and have quite a few players they're looking to move at the deadline.

 

[um]

I'd rather have Eller's expiring contract than another year on the books.

Vegas also isn't likely going to want to retain, given they only have 2 retention spots remaining and have quite a few players they're looking to move at the deadline.

Retention spots? I didn't know that was a thing, I just assumed you could retain on as many players as you wanted.

 

[Langway]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...dful-of-the-standings/?utm_term=.f2f35081929c

“We have different people and we’re a lot younger, so we’re not quite the same,” Trotz said. “We still have some individuals that still want to play the same way we did the last two years, where it’s not geared for our success as a new group. We used to be able to make a mistake and make up for it because we had four lines, we could come at you and we could just wear you out. We had scoring right through our whole lineup. We could play a little bit more like that and we could actually get teams worrying about us and trying to chase us a lot of times. We’d roll four lines and they were playing their top people a little bit more and we were actually wearing them out by playing our top people less because we were fresher.

“Now, we’ve been chasing a lot of the games, which is a little different and a lot harder. You’re extending people and you’re trying to make some plays that maybe would work with nine top, skilled players. We maybe don’t have as much skill, so maybe you’ve got to keep it simpler in certain areas. … We’ve got to accept that a little bit more, and I think that’s the process we’re trying to go through a little bit.”

Some quality back-peddling here.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

What bothers you, that he’s being truthful?

 

[Langway]

He's being truthful from his perspective, which naturally revolves around risk-avoidance rather than progressively more intelligent decision-making within what the right plays are or more cohesion generally. Do they lack depth up front to the point that it explains how poorly that group has played? How does he explain veteran players lacking discipline taking so many penalties? Their issues go beyond how the lineup has changed.

The main problem I have with it is how much it clashes with MacLellan's off-season comments to placate the fanbase that their off-season wasn't terrible. That's not Trotz's problem and he's coaching for a contract so naturally there's some back and fourth there but I'm not sure they set the right expectations or mindset from the beginning. It seems like they've consistently been behind the curve in fully understanding the reality of their situation and putting forth a clear strategy beyond what seems like a poor imitation of previous deeper teams. It's really not just the skilled guys that are costing them games but of course I don't expect Trotz to be similarly critical. The other thing is they only went younger on the blueline when it was brutally obvious Ness wasn't an NHL player.

Trotz is in a tough situation. There's always the risk if he becomes more of a disciplinarian the team tunes him out but he's got to use the whip more and use it equally. They need a lot more from the likes of Eller, Beagle and Connolly (particularly given how much they've hyped up their center depth). Their forward depth shouldn't be this unproductive. Singling out skilled players that have mostly carried them seems misplaced but all too predictable.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It clashes with GMBM....WHO CARES about a bunch of lip service?! You didn’t buy that, so why let it bother you?

The truth hurts. This roster took a massive step backwards. Everyone can see that, no matter what song and dance management was selling to the suckers buying tickets. Long season.....they should make the playoffs still, but if they don’t, we’ll get the new coach you guys have been clamoring for soon enough.

 

[Langway]

Because I don't think they just tried to delude the fanbase but also themselves. It reveals not just a change in MacLellan's typical honesty but also an organization in a bit of disarray. Consistency through thick and thin is important and part of that is fully understanding where they're at. I'm not sure they had that checked understanding to make properly informed decisions and, as a result, have been in a situation of constant slow adaption to circumstances. It's a massive organizational flaw only likely to be made worse by not having luck on their side re: injuries.

They should just clean house if their stale approach falls apart this season. They seem like they need a whole new conceptual approach to matters that they may not get just by putting new people behind the bench. Their approach to skill development and cohesion is flawed IMO and an inferior roster is likely to make it all the more glaring. If Trotz can't get more out of their depth it's not going to matter how dumbed down their skilled players play. They need to resemble a cohesive and engaged team with each player understanding how they need to play to have success. Does Trotz know how to push those buttons in a way that keeps everyone sharp? Early evidence suggests not. It's super early still but I don't have nearly the same confidence this is a playoff lock type team. The East isn't tremendous but in the short-term I'm not sure how this team scores enough. They can trying locking it down but Trotz must find some way for these depth plugs to be more productive.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think it makes sense if they miss the playoffs to reassess from GMBM down. Either way, next year I wouldn’t mind a fresh coaching staff behind the bench even if the GM isn’t changed. Other than this offseason where they IMO where they were going to bleed badly no matter what, he’s made solid moves.