Post-Game Talk: Caps/Habs Preseason Game 2 -- 730pm

[twabby]

They don't have a roster hole. They had one and filled it with Eller. The hole you are talking about is the Wilson spot which you disagree with the Capitals plans going forward. I saw enough of the first game to see that Wilson had an A on his sweater. They are not going to replace him in the top 9 without him getting a full shot

Wilson firmly falls under the unproven players label since he hasn't proven able to hold down a top 9 spot with any regularity. That may change, but until it does there is a hole.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Orpik, Connolly, Vrana, Siegenthaler, Pilon, Thomas, Pitt, Margonari & Monardo.

While it's super early it's not like Carolina or Montreal iced many more NHLers themselves. They both had NHL goaltenders at least and Faulk/Radulov are better than anyone Washington had dressed thus far but it's more the sluggishness than the end result that's disappointing. Aside from Beagle there hasn't been a forward that's consistently created much due to hustle or pace. Considering the bluelines they've been going up against it's an even more disappointing showing early on from those roster bubble forwards. Montreal's second-best defenseman last night was...Pateryn? Has anyone heard of all of the four other defensemen they dressed?

I wonder if any could fall back on the injury issue....not cool for Orpik, Connolly, Vrana....

 

[txpd]

Wilson firmly falls under the unproven players label since he hasn't proven able to hold down a top 9 spot with any regularity. That may change, but until it does there is a hole.

He is unproven as an offensive player. That is true. He is however an established NHL player where Connolly is not. The Caps want Wilson. TB and Boston did not want Connolly. There is not a hole. Wilson is playing in that spot. He may fail at it and lose that spot, but that is different than having a hole. The Caps were not going to sing yer boy Hudler or the like for that spot and then let Wilson play the first 40 games there will Hudler stewing in the press box. They were not going to sign Hudler for that spot and let Wilson stew on the 4th line all season.

You don't like it. I get that. But Wilson is playing rw on one of the top 3 lines for an extended period with the goal to establish an offensive game to round out his overall game. In other words the Caps filled that spot with Wilson. If they decide at somepoint that he is not the right guy, they will go and acquire someone else to fill the role. Same as if Eller stinks it up at 3C. The Caps planned on him in that slot. If he stinks, they will try and replace him. but right now there is no hole at 3c. Lars Eller is the guy there.

 

[Hivemind]

No. Didn't watch the game. Its blacked out here. I catch a few shifts the next day on NHLN replay. I have not seen the rookie games. I am not sweating it yet.

Then perhaps you should wait until you have a chance to see a game or two before protesting against the opinions of those who did watch the game?

Meanwhile. Connolly isn't what I would call an established middle 6 forward. I would describe him as a failed top round draft pick that has never established and his fighting for his career. He could easily be cut.

Connolly is one of the forwards contending for the open roster spots I'm referring to. As is Galiev. None of Connolly, Sanford, Boyd, Barber, Galiev, or Stephenson have really stepped up. It's been a very lukewarm performance from the bunch of forwards contending for the final skater spot in the line-up, wherever that may be (and it could be top 6, as the coaching staff made explicit statements about trying out guys like Connolly and Galiev in scoring roles during the pre-season).

And....it would stink if this was mostly NHL players and have a shot at the NHL roster players. Its not. None of the Caps best players are playing one top 6 defenseman in each game. No NHL goalie. The only regular 1pp player has played one game and scored a goal. The head coach is not even there. If it really does stink, then its good to know that 90% of these players are not projected to be on the NHL roster. Right?

Nobody here is talking about the outcome of the games. Nobody here is handwringing about the Caps actual roster sucking. The issue here is that the bubble players aren't stepping up, leaving a lackluster taste in the mouths of those who were pushing for another top 9 addition. Further still, the coaching staff doesn't seem to have emphasized the areas of weakness that even they identified during the post-mortem period of last post-season. We're not saying the season is over, but we are saying we aren't pleased with what we saw. Not sure what's contentious about that.

Also, the other teams are playing AHLers and prospects, too. It's not as if we're complaining about 20 year old forwards getting overshadowed by Shea Weber last night.

 

[Langway]

I wonder if any could fall back on the injury issue....not cool for Orpik, Connolly, Vrana....

I think they probably could have asked out of it, as Alzner did, if that were an issue. Those three have played in the pre-season since and haven't sat out practices from what I recall.

Sanford's play has been decent enough to continue to believe he's the likely extra forward carried when the dust settles. They've talked him up pretty consistently and when combined with initial reports of perhaps a roster guarantee I've got to believe he's the favorite. Whether he suits up on opening night depends on how well Galiev and Connolly do the rest of the way. I think he probably could use some Hershey time to work on faceoffs and physicality in the pro ranks but he's passable from a hockey sense and positioning standpoint, esp. if he plays on the wing instead.

 

[txpd]

I wonder if any could fall back on the injury issue....not cool for Orpik, Connolly, Vrana....

The Trotz skate test is notorious and brutal. I could not find whether anyone failed it last season but I did find where Ov was the slowest skater. Oprik passed on the second day and I am not worried about it. As I recall its as much a team building exercise as anything and its meant for players to fail

 

[Ajax1995]

The idea of an actual prospect being the extra forward I very much don't agree with. He needs to be playing either in Hershey or in DC IMO...

 

[Carlzner]

FWIW, all 9 skaters passed the test on their second try.

 

[Langway]

I don't think it was the actual test that was so brutal but that it took place after practice. Taking it the next day first thing is a breeze in comparison.

 

[txpd]

I don't think it was the actual test that was so brutal but that it took place after practice. Taking it the next day first thing is a breeze in comparison.

yes, that it was after practice was what made it brutal. brutal none the less. doom

 

[RandyHolt]

I think Bowey and Sanford stood out. Nothing beats getting noticed like a goal in the modern era.

Scratch Winnick Connolly and Chorney and the lineup is set. Sanford in, Bowey first callup. Barry can take the rest of camp off. Yes I still think the timing of the cup is dumb, and contend this is opening the door for Reirden, at minimum it's an audition of sorts.

 

[Hivemind]

Sanford's goal was a screen and deflection on the powerplay against an AHL defender. While he certainly execute that play very well in the circumstance, he's not going to be on the powerplay unit or against such poor coverage in the regular season. Outside of that goal play, I was pretty "meh" on Sanford. I didn't like how passive he was without the puck. A lot of time spent waiting for the play to come to him, rather than trying to proactively make things happen. Maybe that can work as a complimentary winger on a line that's got an effective playmaker, but I'd like to see that happen before handing him a role like that. He also wasn't as effective as I would like along the boards, especially for someone with his size.

My hope is Sanford can become a Fehr-type player, but I feel like he needs some seasoning in the AHL first.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Sanford's goal was a screen and deflection on the powerplay against an AHL defender. While he certainly execute that play very well in the circumstance, he's not going to be on the powerplay unit or against such poor coverage in the regular season. Outside of that goal play, I was pretty "meh" on Sanford. I didn't like how passive he was without the puck. A lot of time spent waiting for the play to come to him, rather than trying to proactively make things happen. Maybe that can work as a complimentary winger on a line that's got an effective playmaker, but I'd like to see that happen before handing him a role like that. He also wasn't as effective as I would like along the boards, especially for someone with his size.

My hope is Sanford can become a Fehr-type player, but I feel like he needs some seasoning in the AHL first.

I'm not sold on Sanford either. The potential to play in the NHL is there but nothing stood out from what I saw yesterday. Only one thing stood out to me, he has the uncanny ability to put the puck through the opponent's feet in close quarters. He has decent puck skills, that's always good in a depth forward.

 

[Holtbyisms]

We haven't won a single game this year....fire trotz...

Looking forward to seeing more roster players in action although I imagine given the extra miles on the large number of world cup players we have they'll be mostly rested in the pre-season. That said though I hope we get at least a few games with a full lineup just to get the crank turning again.

I expect us to roll again in the regular season but we need to find an extra gear in the playoffs and need quite an improvement from this generation of "young guns" if we're to be successful in the post season. That means Kuzy, Bura and Wilson.

 

[Ridley Simon]

For me it's frustration that none of the bubble forwards have stepped up. There's a forward spot up for grabs, and quite possibly a top six forward spot at that, but nobody has looked good enough to fit the part so far.

Beagle!!!

 

[Ridley Simon]

Good thing the Capitals signed an established middle 6 winger for cheap during free agency instead of relying on inexperienced players to fill that role.

I know, I know... We should have bought out Orpik, traded Winnik, and released Galiev and Connolly so we could have signed the Hockey Messiah himself......Jiri Hudler.

 

[twabby]

I know, I know... We should have bought out Orpik, traded Winnik, and released Galiev and Connolly so we could have signed the Hockey Messiah himself......Jiri Hudler.

Wouldn't have needed to buy out Orpik to fit Hudler under the cap. Hudler makes $250k less than Winnik so only moving Winnik out would have been enough. Yes, they should have done this.

People are rationalizing paying $5.5M to Oshie for 5 years in the hopes that he scores 50 points into his 30s. Hudler scored at a 50+ point pace last season at age 32 and scored 76 the season before and only cost $2M. He's a really good player.

Edit: I mean do you really hate offensive production that much? Here are Hudler's even strength scoring rates by season, along with his ranks in the NHL amongst all skaters, minimum 500 minutes played:

2015-16: 2.10 pts/60 (27th)
2014-15: 2.54 (10th)
2013-14: 1.92 (83rd)
2012-13: 2.00 (67th)
2011-12: 2.26 (36th)

These are first line numbers. These aren't even possession stats which many people don't like. These are straight up point scoring numbers. On a team that's struggled with offense and creativity in the playoffs, how can anyone in their right mind prioritize a 4th line penalty killer over him, especially since he's cheaper?

 

[Hivemind]

Ridley Simon-endorsed line projections
83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - 83

83 - 83
83 - 83
83 - 83

83
83

 

[Ridley Simon]

Wouldn't have needed to buy out Orpik to fit Hudler under the cap. Hudler makes $250k less than Winnik so only moving Winnik out would have been enough. Yes, they should have done this.

People are rationalizing paying $5.5M to Oshie for 5 years in the hopes that he scores 50 points into his 30s. Hudler scored at a 50+ point pace last season at age 32 and scored 76 the season before and only cost $2M. He's a really good player.

Edit: I mean do you really hate offensive production that much? Here are Hudler's even strength scoring rates by season, along with his ranks in the NHL amongst all skaters, minimum 500 minutes played:

2015-16: 2.10 pts/60 (27th)
2014-15: 2.54 (10th)
2013-14: 1.92 (83rd)
2012-13: 2.00 (67th)
2011-12: 2.26 (36th)

These are first line numbers. These aren't even possession stats which many people don't like. These are straight up point scoring numbers. On a team that's struggled with offense and creativity in the playoffs, how can anyone in their right mind prioritize a 4th line penalty killer over him, especially since he's cheaper?

Yes, I hate offensive production. what a dumb comment. Should I ask you if you hate defense and goaltending?

I think Hudler is soft. I don't like HIM. I know it's hard for you to grasp.

Winnik adds value in different ways. We need PK'ers. I ABSOLUTELY think he's over paid.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Ridley Simon-endorsed line projections
83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - 83

83 - 83
83 - 83
83 - 83

83
83

Or just 2RW.

 

[Hivemind]

Modified Ridley Simon-endorsed line-up

83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - Hudler
83 - 83 - 83
26 - 83 - 83

 

[twabby]

Yes, I hate offensive production. what a dumb comment. Should I ask you if you hate defense and goaltending?

I think Hudler is soft. I don't like HIM. I know it's hard for you to grasp.

Winnik adds value in different ways. We need PK'ers. I ABSOLUTELY think he's over paid.

It's not hard for me to grasp. A lot of people think he's soft and slow, you're not the first and I happen to agree with you. But what does he do?

He gets on base.

Wait, wrong movie.

He scores. Who cares if he's soft and slow if he can score? The Caps need scoring, not grit and speed. They need to score.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Modified Ridley Simon-endorsed line-up

83 - 83 - 83
83 - 83 - Hudler
83 - 83 - 83
26 - 83 - 83

Now we are getting somewhere.

Defense:

9-9
9-9
44-9

 

[Ridley Simon]

It's not hard for me to grasp. A lot of people think he's soft and slow, you're not the first and I happen to agree with you. But what does he do?

He gets on base.

Wait, wrong movie.

He scores. Who cares if he's soft and slow if he can score? The Caps need scoring, not grit and speed. They need to score.

So does Beagle!!!!

Err -- or something

 

[Corby78]

So Shaw is suspended 3 preseason games. Doesn't lose any pay. That's a blessing for a vet, doesn't have to play in a meaningless game.

Way to go NHL, lets send the right message. I also love how if somebody gets hurt is a factor in the suspension.