Pre-Game Talk: Canucks vs Flames. HNIC. 7PM. Saturday. It All Begins Again.

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yeah, this is spot on.

If it was just a case where they acknowledged his offensive ability but said they wanted to round him out as a player by putting him in more defensive situations ... I'd disagree, but there's some logic and grasp on reality there.

The comments about 'PK being his biggest strength' and the like are just insane ramblings from make-believe land. They're nuts, and just wrong in every possible way.

There is some absolutely unhinged Willie D quote out there about Horvat scoring last season "because the team needed scoring so he learned to do that but that's not his game" or something. I'm paraphrasing but it's insane. I'll try and dig it up.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Give me

Sedins - Eriksson
Bae - Bo - Rodin(Virtanen)
Granlund - Sutter - Hansen
Burrows - Gaunce - Dorsett

End this nonsense.

 

[CanaFan]

You're a tough taskmaster. Putting Granlund on the second line for one game after he was one if not the best forward in preseason is a dumb decision?

Putting him on the 2nd and Bo on the 4th (based on quality of wingers)? Yep, pretty dumb. Not just me who thinks it either. Ray Ferraro was dumbfounded by the decision. Something about putting your best players in positions to succeed rabble rabble.

I didn't see anyone claim that Granlund was a lock on that line, you just want to make it out to be that way. In other words, you will go to any extent, facts be damned.

Well it kind of goes with feeling Granlund *should* play on the 2nd line based on his preseason play. I mean I didn't actually use the word "lock" with regards to Horvat either, I just said I think he deserves to play there. You're the one who brought the word "lock" into this conversation so don't run away from it now.

Again, facts be damned.

Consensus was that Horvat was going to a third line center.

Ya, "facts" be damned.

http://thehockeywriters.com/bo-horvat-the-next-ones-nhl-2013-draft-prospect-profile/

TA: 2-3 years

Risk-Reward Analysis: Risk = 1/5, Reward = 4/5

NHL Potential: 2nd or 3rd line Centre

Strengths:

Vision
Passing
Timing
High defensive acumen
Offensive upside

Flaws/Aspects He Needs To Work On:

Continue to train to increase strength and add mass to frame to handle the rigors of the NHL.
Continue to develop his defensive zone acumen, develop a presence around the net.

Fantasy Hockey Potential: Offensive = 6/10 Defensive = 7.5/10

NHL Player(s) Comparison: In order to ascertain this information, I took to twitter and asked OHL Master Jeff Marek.

Horvat also compares himself to Mike Richards of the Los Angeles Kings here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-profile-for-vancouver-canucks-1st-round-pick

Top-End Potential

The worst-case projection for Horvat is an above-average third-line center. Given his tenacity and willingness to go to war for his teammates, he could eventually slot in as a No. 2 center, providing the grit and sandpaper for his more talented teammates. Role-wise, think Justin Abdelkader with the Detroit Red Wings or Dustin Brown with the Los Angeles Kings.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/28/bo-horvat-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-19/

Horvat’s game and style of play is reminiscent of Patrice Bergeron. However this is a stylistic comparison only. In terms of potential, Horvat can be an effective top 6 centre in the NHL, strong in all aspects of the game, and capable of logging minutes against top lines, on the penalty kill, and providing scoring and playing the powerplay. He can be one of those versatile centres that can do it all, and any team needs to be a true contender.

 

[TruGr1t]

WD talked his weird lines today on TSN 1040, but the audio doesn't appear to be up yet. He basically said that it's wrong to call Horvat a "fourth line" forward because he'll likely play 18+ minutes per night with PP and PK time. Plus he's sticking to the narrative that we need to roll four lines forever or else the world will end. Also, as expected, said Granlund is a "great offensive" player and he wants to see what they have, and that Horvat will generate offense anywhere in the line-up(?).

 

[FroshaugFan2]

There is some absolutely unhinged Willie D quote out there about Horvat scoring last season "because the team needed scoring so he learned to do that but that's not his game" or something. I'm paraphrasing but it's insane. I'll try and dig it up.

He said the same thing about Hansen. Like at anytime in his career Hansen could have been at 20+ goal scorer, but the Canucks never needed that before.

 

[vancityluongo]

See, this...i don't agree with.

In fact, i completely disagree. If anything, i think Sutter is absolutely the guy who could make a Burrows-Dorsett winger duo work. He's a lot more polished and reliable than Bo defensively at this point, more rangey to cover for Burrows slowing down and Dorsett occasionally running out of position for a hit, and he's also the type of player who can largely generate his own offense without a lot of help from his linemates.

I've actually suggested that this trio might have some potential if WillieD really and truly wanted to "roll 4 lines".


In fact...i don't mind these Winger combos at all. Burr+Dorsett makes sense to me. Gaunce+Hansen makes sense - a more cerebral winger paired with an all hustle energy guy. And Bae-Virt is a natural young skilled players, passer and shooter combo with size to complement Baertschi.

If the Centers were swapped around, i think that lineup would actually look quite promising. It's just the idea of Horvat with Dorsett that is truly foul and offensive.


For instance:


Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson
Bae-Granny-Virtanen
Burr-Sutter-Dorsett
Gaunce-Bo-Hansen


looks like a nice, balanced lineup to me. I'd be plenty happy to see that for Game 1.

I like your lineup a lot better too.

Problem is, it doesn't work with what we know about how Benning and Willie think about hockey. From my assessment, it sounds like to them every player has a specific role like in the NHL games - scorer, playmaker, grinder, two-way player, character veteran, rookie, etc. When you put compatible players together, they create lines that have identities (top-6, shutdown line, etc.) and lead to higher chemistry (literally this is what NHL '05 did). So the above lineup looks like this:

Playmaker-Playmaker-Scorer/TwoWay
Scorer-Bergeron-Grinder/Scorer (full chemistry points!)
Grinder-Scorer-Veteran
Rookie-Defensive-TwoWay

Which doesn't work/fit their idea of a cohesive bottom-6. So you need to put the defensive center (that's the role they want him to play) with the grinder and the veteran.

What's hilarious is that it would be okay if they wanted Bo to work on his defensive game and grow into a player that can play against the Kopitar's and Getzlaf's head-to-head (and win possession matchups against them, not just defensively), but Willie doesn't even line match.

 

[MS]

There is some absolutely unhinged Willie D quote out there about Horvat scoring last season "because the team needed scoring so he learned to do that but that's not his game" or something. I'm paraphrasing but it's insane. I'll try and dig it up.

Yeah, that was on the heels of a stretch where Horvat had scored 15 points in 15 games at the age of 20, and his coach actually sounded upset about the whole situation because using him offensively 'took him away from his game' and they 'only did it because they had to'.

Possibly the most outright ******** comment I've ever seen from an NHL head coach.

 

[vancityluongo]

There is some absolutely unhinged Willie D quote out there about Horvat scoring last season "because the team needed scoring so he learned to do that but that's not his game" or something. I'm paraphrasing but it's insane. I'll try and dig it up.

Here it is:

In truth, Horvat never was supposed to be doing this, spending this many minutes squared off against the Getzlafs of the NHL.

Asked if he had any clue the type of massive step up he was being required to take from last year, Horvat said:

“I had no idea. They told me they wanted to bring me in easy. That I would have had a third-line role, and build my confidence as I went.

“But, obviously, with all the injuries, they had no choice to move me up the lineup.â€

The Canucks deployed Horvat like he was a shutdown centre in his prime, one they needed to succeed in both ends of the ice.

Even the coach admits it was too much.

“I thought a little bit I was playing to his weakness. Ah, I don’t know. It’s not his weakness, but the strength of his game is playing great defence,†Willie Desjardins said. “It’s not forcing the offence.

“It’s funny, because the past couple of games I put him on a more defensive line. I wanted him to be more of a shutdown guy.

“And he’s responded with great efforts.

“I see him as a real good checking centre.â€

One could argue convincingly that Horvat is further ahead offensively than defensively in his development.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...ord-canucks-bo-horvat-prevails-amid-adversity

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yeah, that was on the heels of a stretch where Horvat had scored 15 points in 15 games at the age of 20, and his coach actually sounded upset about the whole situation because using him offensively 'took him away from his game' and they 'only did it because they had to'.

Possibly the most outright ******** comment I've ever seen from an NHL head coach.

No, this was in the past week or two. He mentioned Horvat and Hansen "learning to score" last season because that's what the team needed, and how they had to get back to their games.

It's absurd. As if anyone could just learn to score like an NHL first liner and then stop.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Here it is:



http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...ord-canucks-bo-horvat-prevails-amid-adversity

It represents such a misunderstanding of how the game is played at the NHL level. The mind boggles. Like it's truly scary to contemplate that this guy thinks first-line-level offense is a thing rando grinders can just turn on and off.

 

[MS]

Here it is:



http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...ord-canucks-bo-horvat-prevails-amid-adversity

Jeez, that's a slightly different quote than the one normally cited, and is possibly even more damning.

Guy is on a month-long run scoring a point-per-game at the age of 20, and his coach is pigeon-holing him as a 'real good checking center'.

What a ****ing moron. It is absolutely terrifying that our franchise and the young players on it are in the hands of these imbeciles.

 

[MS]

No, this was in the past week or two. He mentioned Horvat and Hansen "learning to score" last season because that's what the team needed, and how they had to get back to their games.

It's absurd. As if anyone could just learn to score like an NHL first liner and then stop.

Oh wow. Didn't see that quote.

The guy just isn't in touch with reality or with how hockey teams win hockey games in this century.

 

[DL44]

WD talked his weird lines today on TSN 1040, but the audio doesn't appear to be up yet. He basically said that it's wrong to call Horvat a "fourth line" forward because he'll likely play 18+ minutes per night with PP and PK time. Plus he's sticking to the narrative that we need to roll four lines forever or else the world will end. Also, as expected, said Granlund is a "great offensive" player and he wants to see what they have, and that Horvat will generate offense anywhere in the line-up(?).

That does sound ridiculous. 18+ mins? That's like 2nd line mins.

 

[KeninsFan]

Jeez, that's a slightly different quote than the one normally cited, and is possibly even more damning.

Guy is on a month-long run scoring a point-per-game at the age of 20, and his coach is pigeon-holing him as a 'real good checking center'.

What a ****ing moron. It is absolutely terrifying that our franchise and the young players on it are in the hands of these imbeciles.

The funniest part is we already have a 'real good checking center' who both the GM and coach thinks is a legit 2C. Just all around poor pro scouting evaluations.

Sutter = hard 3C minutes. Horvat = easy 2C minutes. Should be a no brainer.

 

[MS]

The funniest part is we already have a 'real good checking center' who both the GM and coach thinks is a legit 2C. Just all around poor pro scouting evaluations.

Sutter = hard 3C minutes. Horvat = easy 2C minutes. Should be a no brainer.

And Gaunce, who is ACTUALLY what Willie is describing - a real good future #3 center who can excel in tough matchups and on the PK.

 

[KeninsFan]

And Gaunce, who is ACTUALLY what Willie is describing - a real good future #3 center who can excel in tough matchups and on the PK.

Burrows - Gaunce - Skille/Dorsett

is the ideal 4th line. Insulate a young Gaunce with 2 veterans who can play a reliable 8-10 minutes and ease his transition to NHL hockey.

This team is just not built for Willie's 1234, it's clearly built with a top heavy 1st line and a 4th line capable of...4th line minutes.

 

[MS]

Burrows - Gaunce - Skille/Dorsett

is the ideal 4th line. Insulate a young Gaunce with 2 veterans who can play a reliable 8-10 minutes and ease his transition to NHL hockey.

This team is just not built for Willie's 1234, it's clearly built with a top heavy 1st line and a 4th line only capable of...4th line minutes.

Exactly.

This should be a 3-line team with the 4th line getting 7-8 soft minutes/game. Like how almost every other NHL team does it. This should be the simplest thing in the world.

But that's probably wasting 'foundational player' Dorsett, in Willie's mind. So instead 3 of our 4 lines will have a 4th liner on them.

 

[M2Beezy]

I heard today that the Canucks are in such bad shape that there giving away alcohol to people who come to tomorrows game

What a joke

 

[Oliewud]

what a circus

 

[CanaFan]

I heard today that the Canucks are in such bad shape that there giving away alcohol to people who come to tomorrows game

What a joke

Actually the smartest thing they've done so far this season. Beer goggles for hockey fans.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Okay, I found the quote. Feast your eyes on this idiocy. This is from Wednesday.

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...-face-of-canucks-whats-his-future-as-a-player

“I worried about that last year,” coach Willie Desjardins says. “For sure, I did. I think we put him [Horvat] in some situations that weren’t fair. A good player knows what you need.

“He knew we needed scoring. So he changed his game to score. So did Jannik Hansen. They went, ‘Yeah, we need scoring, I have to contribute more.’

“But I think both of those guys, the best part of their games is the two-way parts. They’re really good defensively.”

The idea that good ol' 2-way guys were like "I better get this team some more goals!" and now have to go back to being checkers is so, so freaking removed from the reality of NHL hockey I don't know what to say.

 

[me2]

See, this...i don't agree with.

In fact, i completely disagree. If anything, i think Sutter is absolutely the guy who could make a Burrows-Dorsett winger duo work. He's a lot more polished and reliable than Bo defensively at this point, more rangey to cover for Burrows slowing down and Dorsett occasionally running out of position for a hit, and he's also the type of player who can largely generate his own offense without a lot of help from his linemates.

I've actually suggested that this trio might have some potential if WillieD really and truly wanted to "roll 4 lines".


In fact...i don't mind these Winger combos at all. Burr+Dorsett makes sense to me. Gaunce+Hansen makes sense - a more cerebral winger paired with an all hustle energy guy. And Bae-Virt is a natural young skilled players, passer and shooter combo with size to complement Baertschi.

If the Centers were swapped around, i think that lineup would actually look quite promising. It's just the idea of Horvat with Dorsett that is truly foul and offensive.


For instance:


Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson
Bae-Granny-Virtanen
Burr-Sutter-Dorsett
Gaunce-Bo-Hansen


looks like a nice, balanced lineup to me. I'd be plenty happy to see that for Game 1.

I don't get it either. Sutter has limited vision in the offensive zone, dump to the point and hope for a tip is about as imaginative as he gets. OTOH his wheels make him deadly breaking out of our end and he generates for more high quality chances in transition than set up in ozone. He scores at the same rate on the PK as he does at ES, good anticipation and great wheels, make him almost a breakaway specialist. He should be playing the Malhotra role, it combines his two best attributes (defensive game and breakaways). He doesn't need great wingers, they are mostly wasted anyway.

Does Willie need a neon sign? Or does he just find it breaks his 1234 plan, I don't know. I hope Rodin gets back soon, he completely changes the look of the lines, gives Sutter or Bo a genuine winger

Granlund Sutter Rodin
Granlund Sutter Hansen
Robo bear
Etc

Even if you decide to keep baertschi-Granlund as an item, there are still got options.

Burrows/Gaunce Bo Hansen
Burrows/Gaunce Bo Rodin

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Here it is:



http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...ord-canucks-bo-horvat-prevails-amid-adversity

Okay, I found the quote. Feast your eyes on this idiocy. This is from Wednesday.

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...-face-of-canucks-whats-his-future-as-a-player



The idea that good ol' 2-way guys were like "I better get this team some more goals!" and now have to go back to being checkers is so, so freaking removed from the reality of NHL hockey I don't know what to say.

I'm...actually speechless. Nothing.

 

[WTG]

one of the lowest scoring team in history, start out next season by turning your 2nd best offensive center into a grinder.

I mean, wow.

I'm with people here, you try and turn Gaunce into that 3rd line checking center. That's where he'll exceed and be super effective.

 

[I am toxic]

Either management think Dorsett is a 2nd liner, or that Bo is a 4th liner. Either way, it indicates they are completely out of touch with respect to player evaluation, player utilization, line combos, bench management, and the locker room.

Very sad.