Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playoffs Approaching

[82Ninety42011]

Depends what they do with the $8M in cap space.

Put it towards getting Brett Pesce, Tanev and re-sign Zadorav and Myers. I mean I wish we keep Hronek but if he wants to break the bank I say move on from him. Pivot to someone like Pesce who will cost less and bring back Tanev as well.

Hughes Pesce
Soucy Tanev
Zadorov Myers

 

[alternate]

What does the Pesce contract look like though?

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

What does the Pesce contract look like though?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

But the Canucks would have regretted re-signing Ehrhoff. Thats the problem. Great player, much needed player, but not worth what was needed to re-sign him. What would you do?

To be fair, Ehrhoff got injured after signing that contract and never really injured. Couple that with a significantly worse support cast and it's not surprising his numbers tanked. Both he and us would have been better figuring something out.

The only real issue with Ehrhoff's contract was the sheer length of it. 4M was fantastic value for him. 9 years was simply lubricous. I'd have tried to see if we could go up closer to 5M but for less term. Maybe Gillis did and he still said no.

Either way, bringing this back around to Hronek. I'd try to keep him for anything that isn't outright silly. 8M is that hard cut off for me. I'd still explore trading him at that price but it's only if he wants above it that we move on.

Something to keep an eye on is whether Hanifin signs with Vegas. If he doesn't, I'd go hard after him and basically flex the contract at Hronek.

 

[Bleach Clean]

the hronek situation is tricky

i don't think they do well in a trade simply because anyone acquiring him is gonna know they're facing a tough negotiation and he's got that arb to free agency out if he wants it. maybe if they can find a team that has a really good winger to deal?

i also think signing him long term is questionable because hughes and hronek are both undersized and along with the canucks top prospect being another dman lacking size in willander that puts them in a potential bind down the road. other than pettersson no dmen in their system really project as physical. mynio, kudryavtsev and even johansson and mcward are all 6'1 or less

given that you probably want to sign him to a mid range deal but i doubt he wants that unless it's for big dollars and i dunno the canucks have the cap situation to really entertain that

it's going to be interesting to see what direction they go

Willander is an average sized dman. Competence should trump size or physicality anyway.

The best leverage the Canucks and Hronek have is that 8th year. He gets that nowhere else. Given his age, it makes the most sense to use that leverage and sign him to max term.

I think it hasn't been done yet because neither side has had to budge on their respective positions. I'm looking at closer to the draft as a potential pressure point. Hronek will sign, imo.

 

[theguardianII]

i don't think they do well in a trade simply because anyone acquiring him is gonna know they're facing a tough negotiation and he's got that arb to free agency out if he wants it. maybe if they can find a team that has a really good winger to deal?

i also think signing him long term is questionable because hughes and hronek are both undersized and along with the canucks top prospect being another dman lacking size in willander that puts them in a potential bind down the road. other than pettersson no dmen in their system really project as physical. mynio, kudryavtsev and even johansson and mcward are all 6'1 or less

I hope that Allvin/Rutherford aren't married to him because they traded for him. There's only one puck and Hronek isn't doing fantastic without playing with Hughes.

Put it towards getting Brett Pesce, Tanev and re-sign Zadorav and Myers. I mean I wish we keep Hronek but if he wants to break the bank I say move on from him. Pivot to someone like Pesce who will cost less and bring back Tanev as well.

Safety in numbers. Signing those guys increases skill and experience depth. Myers has proven himself now that he doesn't have to play outside his comfort zone. A comfort zone that is right up there with other 3/4 dmen.

If adding Myers and Zadorov's contracts together and reallocating those funds between them probably keeps both here. Hronek's value can be used for younger large forwards too

Either way, bringing this back around to Hronek. I'd try to keep him for anything that isn't outright silly. 8M is that hard cut off for me. I'd still explore trading him at that price but it's only if he wants above it that we move on.

Something to keep an eye on is whether Hanifin signs with Vegas. If he doesn't, I'd go hard after him and basically flex the contract at Hronek.

I think the entire new structure of the defence makes Hronek redundant. Size matters. Hanafin would be nice but there are other dmen out there as well, maybe less expensive this team could absorb a younger LARGE human back there for less money

Willander is an average sized dman. Competence should trump size or physicality anyway.

Average sized defense man? 6'1" is not the average sized dman in the NHL, it isn't even the average sized player.
The average sized player is over 6'1"
The average sized defenceman over 6'2"
But the biggest teams are on average all the playoff teams the smaller teams if they make the real season don't go far or win cups.

This is seen by how many teams are signing and playing giants on defence, DEFENCE does not always mean scoring but stopping a goal is just as important.
A point, many can complain about a low scoring dman coughing up the puck all the time but miss that he is getting the puck all the time, winning board battles, checking players off the puck. A dump out can be taught and if Carolina the primary exit is a puck off the boards or glass.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I think Hronek unfortunately wants the bag and will hold out to get it. Just a gut feeling.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

But the Canucks would have regretted re-signing Ehrhoff. Thats the problem. Great player, much needed player, but not worth what was needed to re-sign him. What would you do?

If I recall correctly, there was some friction between both camps. Ehrhoff's side thought he was the straw that stirred the drink whereas Gillis saw him as a beneficiary of the system. The difference in getting a deal done was small (400-500k/year) but Gillis declined to sign him out of principal.

In hindsight, it was a good move as Ehrhoff showed his limitations in Buffalo (which was the start of his decline) and Edler hit career numbers in 2011-12 assuming his role. The biggest error with the whole thing was keeping Ballard and not making any legitimate attempts to improve the offense.

Unfortunately we don't have that luxury in 2024-2025. There is no young defenseman readying to make a jump into a top pairing role here. Overall, what you see league wide is a scarcity of top 4 defensemen, especially via UFA. It's why you may see guys like Zadorov and Myers command huge dollars via UFA.

If you want to ensure cap flexibility, don't mind taking a step back and think Pettersson (D) and Willander can step into a top 4 role in 2-3 years....then you forego any stupid deal. If you want to make the playoffs again next year, then you sign him at whatever cost.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I feel like the discourse around Hronek feels similar to Miller. I don’t think people realize how hard it is to find players like them. Top defensemen (especially right shot) and centers are not easy to find. I think he ends up signing for around 7 years * 7.35 million.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I hope that Allvin/Rutherford aren't married to him because they traded for him. There's only one puck and Hronek isn't doing fantastic without playing with Hughes.

Safety in numbers. Signing those guys increases skill and experience depth. Myers has proven himself now that he doesn't have to play outside his comfort zone. A comfort zone that is right up there with other 3/4 dmen.

If adding Myers and Zadorov's contracts together and reallocating those funds between them probably keeps both here. Hronek's value can be used for younger large forwards too

I think the entire new structure of the defence makes Hronek redundant. Size matters. Hanafin would be nice but there are other dmen out there as well, maybe less expensive this team could absorb a younger LARGE human back there for less money

Average sized defense man? 6'1" is not the average sized dman in the NHL, it isn't even the average sized player.
The average sized player is over 6'1"
The average sized defenceman over 6'2"
But the biggest teams are on average all the playoff teams the smaller teams if they make the real season don't go far or win cups.

This is seen by how many teams are signing and playing giants on defence, DEFENCE does not always mean scoring but stopping a goal is just as important.
A point, many can complain about a low scoring dman coughing up the puck all the time but miss that he is getting the puck all the time, winning board battles, checking players off the puck. A dump out can be taught and if Carolina the primary exit is a puck off the boards or glass.

6'1" is the average height of NHL players this year. The average dman is 6'2".

 

[Bleach Clean]

I hope that Allvin/Rutherford aren't married to him because they traded for him. There's only one puck and Hronek isn't doing fantastic without playing with Hughes.

Safety in numbers. Signing those guys increases skill and experience depth. Myers has proven himself now that he doesn't have to play outside his comfort zone. A comfort zone that is right up there with other 3/4 dmen.

If adding Myers and Zadorov's contracts together and reallocating those funds between them probably keeps both here. Hronek's value can be used for younger large forwards too

I think the entire new structure of the defence makes Hronek redundant. Size matters. Hanafin would be nice but there are other dmen out there as well, maybe less expensive this team could absorb a younger LARGE human back there for less money

Average sized defense man? 6'1" is not the average sized dman in the NHL, it isn't even the average sized player.
The average sized player is over 6'1"
The average sized defenceman over 6'2"
But the biggest teams are on average all the playoff teams the smaller teams if they make the real season don't go far or win cups.

This is seen by how many teams are signing and playing giants on defence, DEFENCE does not always mean scoring but stopping a goal is just as important.
A point, many can complain about a low scoring dman coughing up the puck all the time but miss that he is getting the puck all the time, winning board battles, checking players off the puck. A dump out can be taught and if Carolina the primary exit is a puck off the boards or glass.

The average height of a forward is 6.109 ft and the average height of a defenseman is 6.154 ft.

Average weight of forwards is 197.86 lbs and the average weight of defenseman is 202.84 lbs.

 

[Vector]

I feel like the discourse around Hronek feels similar to Miller. I don’t think people realize how hard it is to find players like them. Top defensemen (especially right shot) and centers are not easy to find. I think he ends up signing for around 7 years * 7.35 million.

This is where I'm at. It's damn hard to find good right-shot high-performing defencemen. Canucks paid a hefty price but got exactly what they wanted. Ultimately, I don't think this gets sorted out before free agency starts and it comes in around 8x8.

 

[credulous]

signing guys to inflated contracts because they are "hard to replace" is how you mess up your cap table

 

[Vector]

signing guys to inflated contracts because they are "hard to replace" is how you mess up your cap table

Hemming and hawing on the cap hit over high producing players is how you end up paying more for worse replacements.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

signing guys to inflated contracts because they are "hard to replace" is how you mess up your cap table

Most competitive teams salary structures are on a knife edge..Letting key players walk for inferior players is one way of guaranteeing you'll never win a cup.

 

[bandwagonesque]

This is where I'm at. It's damn hard to find good right-shot high-performing defencemen. Canucks paid a hefty price but got exactly what they wanted. Ultimately, I don't think this gets sorted out before free agency starts and it comes in around 8x8.

I agree that's probably what he'll get.

You can pontificate all day about what's reasonable, but it doesn't mean much as long as there is a team that really needs a RHD and has the cap space to add him without immediately restructuring their team.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

But the Canucks would have regretted re-signing Ehrhoff. Thats the problem. Great player, much needed player, but not worth what was needed to re-sign him. What would you do?

Looking at the squad back then , it was a veteran team with a very limited window...I would have tried to grind Ehrhoff down a bit, but I would have overpaid him..sounds irresponsible but he was a key ingredient (that attacking dimension of the Canucks was never regained when he left).

A rebuild was right around the corner for the Canucks ..should have gone all in and dealt with the consequences later.. Ehrhoff would likely have been an anchor contract through the lean years, but at that point ..who cares?

 

[ziploc]

What does the Pesce contract look like though?

Probably something like this

 

[credulous]

Hemming on hawing on the cap hit over high producing players is how you end up paying more for worse replacements.

i mean i agree in general i just don't think hronek is good enough to be in this category

 

[Bleach Clean]

I feel like the discourse around Hronek feels similar to Miller. I don’t think people realize how hard it is to find players like them. Top defensemen (especially right shot) and centers are not easy to find. I think he ends up signing for around 7 years * 7.35 million.

That deal would be quite palatable, judging from the discourse. It's when it gets to 8x8 that the threshold of hard to find/too expensive too keep gets explored.

Aside, why do you think both sides would settle on 7 years instead of 8 years?

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

That deal would be quite palatable, judging from the discourse. It's when it gets to 8x8 that the threshold of hard to find/too expensive too keep gets explored.

Aside, why do you think both sides would settle on 7 years instead of 8 years?

I think he might want to go shorter so he can get another ufa deal while being relatively young. So I think if the Canucks go shorter they can keep the numbers down. I think the deal with be lower than people think 8 x 8 is ridiculous. It’s hard to see the Canucks going from 8 x 6.5 to 8 x 8.

 

[TruGr1t]

i mean i agree in general i just don't think hronek is good enough to be in this category

It's a tale of two seasons for him. He arguably was for the first 30-35 games, he really hasn't been at that level the last 30-ish games. Unfortunately, it won't matter as he'll probably finish as a 50+ point defenseman playing top-pair minutes and ballpark on the Trouba and Segachev deals.

 

[bandwagonesque]

It's a tale of two seasons for him. He arguably was for the first 30-35 games, he really hasn't been at that level the last 30-ish games. Unfortunately, it won't matter as he'll probably finish as a 50+ point defenseman playing top-pair minutes and ballpark on the Trouba and Segachev deals.

I've seen this too, although his playstyle seems vulnerable to being affected by how other players on the ice are setting the table for him. He needs a target or an open side whereas Hughes just needs a bit of daylight.

 

[Vector]

Was fiddling around with capfriendly and looking at who is projected to have the most capspace available this summer.

Spoiler: Projected 2024 Off-Season Cap Space List:

1)	Coyotes	41.44m
2)	Blackhawks	39.38m
3)	Sharks	39.11m
4)	Ducks	34.88m
5)	Hurricanes	31.67m
6)	Red Wings	29.07m
7)	Canucks	28.23m (LTIR)
8)	Blue Jackets	24.42m
9)	Kings	22.75m
10)	Canadiens	22.45m (LTIR)
11)	Sabres	22.29m
12)	Devils	21.51m
13)	Bruins	21.02m
14)	Maple Leafs	20.75m
15)	Kraken	20.65m
16)	Panthers	19.72m
17)	Flames	18.90m
18)	Stars	18.54m
19)	Predators	18.37m
20)	Avalanche	17.69m (LTIR)
21)	Capitals	17.26 (LTIR)
22)	Blues	15.64m
23)	Golden Knights	14.94m (LTIR)
24)	Jets	14.13
25)	Oilers	13.28m
26)	Senators	13.01m
27)	Penguins	12.94m
28)	Rangers	12.66m
29)	Lightning	12.58m
30)	Wild	10.69m
31)	Islanders	7.07m
32)	Flyers	5.17m

Started going further and see how this works out for the Canucks. Here's what I came up with.

Canucks - 28.23m (LTIR)
Poolman - 2.5m LTIR
RFAs w/ Projections:
Hronek - 8m
Podkolzin - 1.1m

Projected Line-Up:
XXX-Miller-Boeser
Hoglander-Pettersson-Garland
Mikheyev-Suter-XXX
Di Giuseppe-Aman-XXX
XXX

Hughes-XXX
Soucy-XXX
XXX-Juulsen
XXX/XXX

Demko
XXX

28.23m (LTIR) for 10 roster spots. With RFA projections that is 19.13m for 8 spots. That should be for one top-6 forward, one 2nd-pairing right-shot defenceman, one third-pairing left-shot defenceman, some bottom-6 forwards, and defensive depth.

Let's say Joshua is brought back for 2.5m and Bains makes the team out of camp. That leaves the them with 15.81m for 6 roster spots.

XXX-Miller-Boeser
Hoglander-Pettersson-Garland
Joshua-Suter-Mikheyev
Bains-Aman-Podkolzin
Di Giuseppe

Hughes-Hronek
Soucy-XXX
XXX-Juulsen
XXX/XXX

Demko
XXX

Let's assume both 7th & 8th defenceman make around league minimum. That's another 1.55 off that number; leaves us with 14.26. That gets split between a top-6 forward, 2nd pairing defenceman, 3rd pairing defenceman, and back-up goalie.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Backup goalie should be under $2M. Third pairing D under $3M. Even if Joshua goes for $3M we're not in a terrible spot. Can re-sign Blueger for $2.5M and Zadorov for $4.5M.