World Cup: Canada 4 Nations Tournament 2025 Roster Talk

[namttebih]

The local federations are far too influential to let that happen on their turf in any form even remotely resembling national team hockey.

Meh. They're also corrupt as hell. Money has a way of swaying influence.

 

[therealdeal]

I try to be a generally positive person in regards to these things, but this will be forgotten quickly if it does happen. 4 teams? Should be 8-10, 3 week tourney.

Sucks.

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

NHL cares about optics in general. It doesn't give a shit about IIHF or IOC.

Thanks Gary

 

[Joe Zanussi]

It’s better than nothing I guess. Not what I’d hope for but I’ll definitely take it

 

[ForsbergForever]

Any chance Joel Hofer could get some consideration given the state of the country's goaltending?

 

[Nucks2001]

Glad to see McDavid has return to form. After tonight, Canada has 5 players in the top 20 for points (Makar, Point, McDavid, MacKinnon, Reinhart and Crosby) and 11 in the top 30 (Hagel, Stamkos, Schiefele, Hyman, Thomas, McTavish). Exciting stuff when you account that Bedard, Marner and Barzal don't make the list. Interesting how a few weeks can change the outlook for an entire country.

 

[Regal]

Take a look at the 2006 Olympic Team. That’s what happens when you put in old, “experienced” guys over better players. I would like an explanation as to how someone like ROR is better than Robert Thomas or Mason McTavish right now. I get what you’re trying to do with Cirelli, but we don’t need another Rob Zamuner or Kris Draper out there. Especially considering our forward depth is the worst it’s ever been. You don’t need to have 3 “two-way” guys on one line. 2 is plenty. Schiefele is simply too good of an offensive option to leave off.

The 2010 team did such a good job of this. Toews, Bergeron, Staal and Doughty were all surprise selections. Alas, Bergeron didn’t get much playing time, but he was groomed for future tournaments. Toews and Doughty were the MVPs at their respective positions and Staal ended up on the first line with Crosby-Iggy and fulfilled PK duties.

That 2010 roster was a shock and shift from the old-school Canadian mentality of older=better. Most people thought Russia was gonna take the gold. Even iggy said the team looked a lot younger than previous ones. Leaving off older and less-skilled guys like Smyth, Penner, Doan, Gagné and Brad Richards was the best decision that Canada ever made. Mark Stone already fills that Brendan Morrow role for Canada, no need to make the team more slow and old.

This is a good point. I think going for experience works when the experienced players are also still in their primes and near the top of the league. The 2014 team was like that and they were all about being sound in every zone, not making any mistakes and letting the scoring come naturally for their talent and possession time. But Canada doesn’t have a lot of top tier forwards who are near their primes right now outside of McDavid, MacKinnon, Point and Marner. A lot of the older guys are still good and obviously Crosby would be on the team, but they’re also going to be slower and a lot of them aren’t the same game breakers they were. It probably makes sense to take some of these talented kids and hope a shot of their energy can bring a different dynamic to the team. Especially since they don’t have the goaltending to want to play lockdown hockey

 

[Nucks2001]

This is a good point. I think going for experience works when the experienced players are also still in their primes and near the top of the league. The 2014 team was like that and they were all about being sound in every zone, not making any mistakes and letting the scoring come naturally for their talent and possession time. But Canada doesn’t have a lot of top tier forwards who are near their primes right now outside of McDavid, MacKinnon, Point and Marner. A lot of the older guys are still good and obviously Crosby would be on the team, but they’re also going to be slower and a lot of them aren’t the same game breakers they were. It probably makes sense to take some of these talented kids and hope a shot of their energy can bring a different dynamic to the team. Especially since they don’t have the goaltending to want to play lockdown hockey

Bang on. It’s not like Canada won’t have experienced guys on the roster. Marchand, Stamkos and Stone likely make it. You still have Crosby and Pietrangelo there. You just can’t fill out the rest of your roster with guys like ROR, Cirelli, and Marchesseault. Each roster spots matters when you have an older team. Bedard, McTavish, Thomas, Konency, Byfield, Power fill in those “energy” spots. If Canada’s core wasn’t as old, I wouldn’t have as big of a problem with filling out ancillary roles with older guys.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

Bang on. It’s not like Canada won’t have experienced guys on the roster. Marchand, Stamkos and Stone likely make it. You still have Crosby and Pietrangelo there. You just can’t fill out the rest of your roster with guys like ROR, Cirelli, and Marchesseault. Each roster spots matters when you have an older team. Bedard, McTavish, Thomas, Konency, Byfield, Power fill in those “energy” spots. If Canada’s core wasn’t as old, I wouldn’t have as big of a problem with filling out ancillary roles with older guys.

Stone, with his history of back issues, is very likely to be past his prime by fall 2025. Or at least we'll have better options in our bottom-6.

Stamkos and Marchand - let's monitor their performance, but sure.

What's wrong with Marchessault? Top line player on a Stanley Cup champion. Can complement a legitimate 1st line superstar centre (Eichel). Thrives in big moments. And most importantly, fills a need (goal scoring from the wing). Personally I think he'll be supplanted by other players by 2025, but if we needed to put together a roster this past fall (2023) I'd have him on it.

Others may disagree on Cirelli but I believe you need players like him on your team to win best-on-best tournaments. Even if he plays a few shifts a period and kills penalties, those would be difficult shifts for the opposition, especially if someone like Konecny is on the other wing. While definitely not the most talented guy, he's made himself a key piece of winning teams throughout his career. Having said that, he's not off to a great start this season and there are several players I'd want there ahead of him at this point.

O'Reilly is too old. There was a time he could have been a big piece on a best-on-best team, but that time has passed.

 

[Nucks2001]

Stone, with his history of back issues, is very likely to be past his prime by fall 2025. Or at least we'll have better options in our bottom-6.

Stamkos and Marchand - let's monitor their performance, but sure.

What's wrong with Marchessault? Top line player on a Stanley Cup champion. Can complement a legitimate 1st line superstar centre (Eichel). Thrives in big moments. And most importantly, fills a need (goal scoring from the wing). Personally I think he'll be supplanted by other players by 2025, but if we needed to put together a roster this past fall (2023) I'd have him on it.

Others may disagree on Cirelli but I believe you need players like him on your team to win best-on-best tournaments. Even if he plays a few shifts a period and kills penalties, those would be difficult shifts for the opposition, especially if someone like Konecny is on the other wing. While definitely not the most talented guy, he's made himself a key piece of winning teams throughout his career. Having said that, he's not off to a great start this season and there are several players I'd want there ahead of him at this point.

O'Reilly is too old. There was a time he could have been a big piece on a best-on-best team, but that time has passed.

If you look at my original reply, I actually stated that Marchessault was one of the better options. I just feel that there’s better and younger options than him. For example, I think Verhaege provides a lot of what Marchesseault offers, but is a younger option. He wouldn’t be a horrendous selection by any means.

A player like Cirelli would not be a bad option on the 2010, 2014 or 2016 teams. However, our scoring depth is not near the same to afford a luxury defensive option like him. Now you do bring up great points. It’s very possible for Marchand and Stone to decline by 2025 and if that’s the case, I think you can start LOOKING at Cirelli for a roster spot and pk duties. I think Point, Marner, Thomas, Konency, Reinhart could all be viable options for Canada’s PK, but Cirelli really does provide that over-the-hump for the PK. He does have chemistry with Stamkos and Point so that’s a big plus for him.. I’m not saying he’s a terrible selection, but based on Canada’s projection, we need skill and youth over structure and roles right now.

Glad we agree about ROR.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Barzal and Robert Thomas are having good years so far, curious if they get a look in if their form continues

 

[Nucks2001]

Barzal and Robert Thomas are having good years so far, curious if they get a look in if their form continues

Both make it for me. Would love to see how Barzal would flourish outside of the Islanders system. His speed, playmaking and creativity is just too good to leave off.

I’m a huge Robert Thomas guy. He may be one of the most underrated passers or player for that matter in the league. He brings that combo of speed+size and poise to the team, which is so rare for his age. Can win face-offs, play the PK and be on PP2 for Canada. Reminds me of a Jonathan Toews.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

Both make it for me. Would love to see how Barzal would flourish outside of the Islanders system. His speed, playmaking and creativity is just too good to leave off.

I’m a huge Robert Thomas guy. He may be one of the most underrated passers or player for that matter in the league. He brings that combo of speed+size and poise to the team, which is so rare for his age. Can win face-offs, play the PK and be on PP2 for Canada. Reminds me of a Jonathan Toews.

Players like Barzal and Thomas (and Johnston and Suzuki) are, at least in my view, better off playing centre as they're puck-dominant, playmaking centres whose skillsets aren't optimized on the wing. The problem is, I'm not sure how many spots, if any, in the forward group will be open for players with those skillsets. Most likely #4C, spare forward, maybe #3C are open for the taking if they shuffle some players like Point (or Crosby or MacKinnon) to the wing.

I'd like to see Canada put a premium on speed, goal scoring ability, and forechecking ability and board work from the wing position. Players like Byfield and Konecny cover most of these aspects, McTavish would too if converted to the wing. At this point I would almost consider Byfield a lock for the next best-on-best, and McTavish isn't far behind. I thought the 2010 and 2014 Olympic teams had the ideal forward construction with players like Carter, Benn, Perry and Marleau on the wing that were the prototype for what a good winger should be at the best-on-best level.

 

[Nucks2001]

Players like Barzal and Thomas (and Johnston and Suzuki) are, at least in my view, better off playing centre as they're puck-dominant, playmaking centres whose skillsets aren't optimized on the wing. The problem is, I'm not sure how many spots, if any, in the forward group will be open for players with those skillsets. Most likely #4C, spare forward, maybe #3C are open for the taking if they shuffle some players like Point (or Crosby or MacKinnon) to the wing.

I'd like to see Canada put a premium on speed, goal scoring ability, and forechecking ability and board work from the wing position. Players like Byfield and Konecny cover most of these aspects, McTavish would too if converted to the wing. At this point I would almost consider Byfield a lock for the next best-on-best, and McTavish isn't far behind. I thought the 2010 and 2014 Olympic teams had the ideal forward construction with players like Carter, Benn, Perry and Marleau on the wing that were the prototype for what a good winger should be at the best-on-best level.

Barzal has been playing RW for almost a year now. He’s horrible at face-offs and his speed would be much better used in bursts at the wing. This is how the roster would look for me if Barzal, Thomas and Byfield are on it:

Bedard-McDavid-Marner
Barzal-Point-MacKinnon
Byfield-Crosby-Konency
Marchand-Thomas-McTavish
Scheifele as 13th

 

[hockey20000]

who cares lol this tournament is a sham. 4 nations lol

 

[Nucks2001]

who cares lol this tournament is a sham. 4 nations lol

Very true. I think the only reason why I lot of people are excited is that the NHL has basically forbidden any international hockey since 2016. I just want to see the best of the USA vs. Canada as these two countries are neck-and-neck in terms of NHL talent right now. I agree though, not a true best-on-best and the Olympics needs to be brought back. To think that guys like Leon, Pasta, Josi, Seider, Stutzle, Josi, Fiala and Hischier won’t even be on the ice is ridiculous.