C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2020 Draft) II

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Just look up how MacKinnon is doing. Imagine passing on his because he sucks at faceoffs

Nobody is talking about passing him up because his faceoffs. The comment chain started when someone mentioned that he was dominant on faceoffs. It was pointed out that he's not dominant on faceoffs by the numbers. That should have been the end of it but you know...summer on HFBoards.

 

[Islay1989]

Nobody is talking about passing him up because his faceoffs. The comment chain started when someone mentioned that he was dominant on faceoffs. It was pointed out that he's not dominant on faceoffs by the numbers. That should have been the end of it but you know...summer on HFBoards.

One particular poster keeps bringing up this narrative as if faceoffs are something important.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

One particular poster keeps bringing up this narrative as if faceoffs are something important.

They are important. You are coming up with straw men arguments. No one suggested passing on a player due to face-offs.

 

[Islay1989]

They are important. You are coming up with straw men arguments. No one suggested passing on a player due to face-offs.

Do you even know what a straw man is?

And no, they are not important outside of special teams. Do some research and read up on the studies about the importance of faceoffs and then come back.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Do you even know what a straw man is?

And no, they are not important outside of special teams. Do some research and read up on the studies about the importance of faceoffs and then come back.

Oh hey. Here's some research on the importance of faceoffs.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Do you even know what a straw man is?

And no, they are not important outside of special teams. Do some research and read up on the studies about the importance of faceoffs and then come back.

You used one.

Straw man - Wikipedia

 

[Islay1989]

You used one.

Straw man - Wikipedia

I know what os a strawman, you apparently haven't got a clue as per usual.

 

[KingsofLA]

Nobody is talking about passing him up because his faceoffs. The comment chain started when someone mentioned that he was dominant on faceoffs. It was pointed out that he's not dominant on faceoffs by the numbers. That should have been the end of it but you know...summer on HFBoards.

Seems that YOU are the one who started this silly debate on Byfield faceoffs ability. Here is most of my quote, "I see some Jeff Carter, due to his shot and speed. Seems that Byfield already a better faceoff center ability."

Where do i say that Byfield is dominant faceoff player. I compared him to Carter and seems already better at faceoffs than him. Go get some Sun brother

 

[bsu]

Hockey IQ is much bigger problem than faceoffs

 

[Just Linda]

Hockey IQ is much bigger problem than faceoffs

I agree. Thankfully neither are problems for Byfield.

 

[McDNicks17]

Hockey IQ is much bigger problem than faceoffs

I'm curious. Where did this silly narrative start with Byfield?

Was it an article or podcast or something?

 

[Sweetpotato]

Hockey IQ is much bigger problem than faceoffs

Luckily Byfield has phenomenal hockey IQ.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Luckily Byfield has phenomenal hockey IQ.

No he doesn't. Guys like Lafreniere, Raymond, Rossi and Perfetti have phenomenal hockey IQ. Byfield is a tier below in that department.

I wouldn't say it's a problem, it's just not one of his best assets. If he had phenomenal hockey IQ to go along with a 6'5, 215lb frame, elite skating and high-end talent, he'd be the next Malkin and it would be Lafreniere going 2nd OVR.

 

[bsu]

Luckily Byfield has phenomenal hockey IQ.

Nope he doesn't think the game fast enough but he can improve on it if he does he'll be scary.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

No he doesn't. Guys like Lafreniere, Raymond, Rossi and Perfetti have phenomenal hockey IQ. Byfield is a tier below in that department.

I wouldn't say it's a problem, it's just not one of his best assets. If he had phenomenal hockey IQ to go along with a 6'5, 215lb frame, elite skating and high-end talent, he'd be the next Malkin and it would be Lafreniere going 2nd OVR.

Well,..aren't you gonna get surprised then.

 

[Captain Clutch]

Lots of guys in the CHL have size, others are great skaters, few have both and a very very rare few combine both of those attributes with elite scoring ability and once every ten years or so does that happen with a 17 year old. I don't see how its possible to not have very very good hockey IQ and score the way Byfield did in the CHL, at his age. Is his hockey IQ better than Lafreniere, Rossi or Perfetti, probably not but the overall package is elite, if not every single facet of his game. Face-offs are a whole different animal and can certainly be improved upon dramatically, with NHL level instruction (and experience). Byfield is going to be a beast in the NHL, maybe a bit frustrating for guys who want him to be able to pass like Joe Thornton (which he won't) or play a dominant physical game (like Couturier) or be a great defender like Bergeron (again no) but he will be a more impactful player overall than all of those guys because of the great combination of size, skill, scoring touch, hockey IQ. I thinks he's going to have a dynamite career and change LA's fortunes pretty dramatically over the next ten plus years. If I were the Rangers GM, I'd take him 1st overall.

 

[bsu]

he definitely has a high floor as well as high potential even if he completely busts he will be a good 3rd liner imo

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Lots of guys in the CHL have size, others are great skaters, few have both and a very very rare few combine both of those attributes with elite scoring ability and once every ten years or so does that happen with a 17 year old. I don't see how its possible to not have very very good hockey IQ and score the way Byfield did in the CHL, at his age. Is his hockey IQ better than Lafreniere, Rossi or Perfetti, probably not but the overall package is elite, if not every single facet of his game. Face-offs are a whole different animal and can certainly be improved upon dramatically, with NHL level instruction (and experience). Byfield is going to be a beast in the NHL, maybe a bit frustrating for guys who want him to be able to pass like Joe Thornton (which he won't) or play a dominant physical game (like Couturier) or be a great defender like Bergeron (again no) but he will be a more impactful player overall than all of those guys because of the great combination of size, skill, scoring touch, hockey IQ. I thinks he's going to have a dynamite career and change LA's fortunes pretty dramatically over the next ten plus years. If I were the Rangers GM, I'd take him 1st overall.

It's absolutely possible to put up big numbers in the CHL without having a particularly strong hockey IQ (see Drouin or Bennett).

That doesn't mean he'll be a bad player. I think Byfield will be an excellent NHL player. But while he has great vision, his hockey IQ overall doesn't seem particularly great, and it may very well limit what he can do at the NHL level.

Also I don't see why he couldn't have Couturier's physical game in the NHL. Couturier uses his size well, but he's not a particularly aggressive player. I could easily see Byfield have the same kind of physical impact.

 

[Captain Clutch]

Drouin, however did play with Nathan Mackinnon, which obviously changed his fortunes dramatically(and his great hands sure helped). When I watched Byfield this season, I saw perhaps a dozen games, I saw a guy with elite vision, high end passing skills, and great if not elite stick handling skills and he absolutely drove the offense on an otherwise very average Sudbury team. I can't remember a guy with that package who didn't go on to have a very good (or great) NHL career. I mean, its always possible for someone to bust, there are so many other factors (non-hockey related) that enter into it but wow, I see some posters on this thread who act as if he is some sort of polarizing prospect, and for my money he is the safest bet in the entire draft to have a very good, if not great NHL career.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Drouin, however did play with Nathan Mackinnon, which obviously changed his fortunes dramatically(and his great hands sure helped).

It's worth noting that Drouin put up even better numbers a year later, without Mackinnon. He was an elite junior player in his own right; you don't need great hockey IQ when you have such great hands and skating that you can avoid pressure and do whatever you want in the O zone. Admittedly, it's more of a cautionary tale for Stutzle than it is for Byfield: Byfield's size alone will prevent him from having the same struggles as Drouin in the pros. But just because a player disappoints in the NHL doesn't retroactively discredit his junior career.

When I watched Byfield this season, I saw perhaps a dozen games, I saw a guy with elite vision, high end passing skills, and great if not elite stick handling skills and he absolutely drove the offense on an otherwise very average Sudbury team. I can't remember a guy with that package who didn't go on to have a very good (or great) NHL career.

I agree with all that. Though I can remember a lot of prospects with great vision and stick-handling that disappointed; that said, none of them had Byfield's size and speed.

My only problem with Byfield is that I think people oversell his upside, especially offensively. He doesn't seem like a particularly creative or deceptive player and he doesn't strike me as a player who thinks ahead of everyone else on the ice. More of a Eric Staal than a Malkin. Which is still pretty great.

I mean, its always possible for someone to bust, there are so many other factors (non-hockey related) that enter into it but wow, I see some posters on this thread who act as if he is some sort of polarizing prospect, and for my money he is the safest bet in the entire draft to have a very good, if not great NHL career.

Agreed. I think he's the safest prospect in the draft, and IMO should be comfortably ahead of Stutzle at #2

 

[ijuka]

Agreed. I think he's the safest prospect in the draft, and IMO should be comfortably ahead of Stutzle at #2

How on earth is he the safest prospect? Even sources who have Byfield #1OA think he's more of a high risk high reward kind of a guy than Lafreniere.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

How on earth is he the safest prospect? Even sources who have Byfield #1OA think he's more of a high risk high reward kind of a guy than Lafreniere.

What sources? AFAIK, the only public scouting list with Byfield at #1 is Cam Robinson's, and I don't think he sees Byfield as high risk.

It depends on how you see risk, I guess. If you view anything short of being a star center as a failure, then yeah, Byfield is high risk. But barring injuries, I just see no way that Byfield is not a pretty good, contributing NHLer in the future.

Prospects that are "high risk" for me are guys with noticeable size/skating deficiencies or suspected work ethic/attitude issues, things that can completely sink NHL careers. I have reservations about Byfield's hockey IQ, but there are plenty of players that had nice NHL careers despite being average in that regard.

 

[The Lukeman]

What sources? AFAIK, the only public scouting list with Byfield at #1 is Cam Robinson's, and I don't think he sees Byfield as high risk.

It depends on how you see risk, I guess. If you view anything short of being a star center as a failure, then yeah, Byfield is high risk. But barring injuries, I just see no way that Byfield is not a pretty good, contributing NHLer in the future.

Prospects that are "high risk" for me are guys with noticeable size/skating deficiencies or suspected work ethic/attitude issues, things that can completely sink NHL careers. I have reservations about Byfield's hockey IQ, but there are plenty of players that had nice NHL careers despite being average in that regard.

Exactly. You cant be high risk and be #2 or #3 overall. It doesnt mean you have high potential. High risk implies that a player has several major deficiencies (or off ice issues) that may withhold him from making it to the NHL. Typically these players are really good at certain skills, but also have red flags. Think Kaliyev. One of the best shooters outside the NHL, but has major defensive holes that he must overcome if he ever wants to make it in the NHL. Byfield has high potential, and has small holes in his game.

When I think "safe prospects" I think players who have a high likelihood of being productive in the NHL. This doesnt mean best player in his draft class. Typically, I look at players closer to their full potential. In this draft, I would say those players are Lafreniere and Rossi. Both players who have a well rounded game and won't be bottom liners. Both are reasonably expected to be with their NHL clubs next season. I could also argue Sanderson, who plays a very steady game even though he is 1-2 years away.

Byfield, Stutzle, Raymond, Perfetti, Drysdale, Holtz, Lundell, etc. would not be considered safe prospects or high risk prospects. It's not one or the other.

 

[Zaddy]

I'm curious. Where did this silly narrative start with Byfield?

Was it an article or podcast or something?

I don't know if there is anyone who seriously believes that his hockey IQ is bad, I think most people just note that if there's one part of his game that's not top-notch (and could somewhat limit his potential) it's that. That's not controversial.

Quote from HockeyProspect:

Although his hockey-sense is mixed in some areas and he’s still physically raw in terms of developing his power-game. He theoretically should be able to develop it when he reaches the NHL. Byfield still offers one of the most exciting blends of tools we’ve seen and he has age on his side. If there’s anything that can help compensate for hockey-sense, it’s having a remarkable tool-kit at a player’s disposal, and Quinton has that in spades. The question remains, just how much can his tools compensate for good but not great hockey-sense? Our answer is that we don’t think he reaches star status number-one center projection, but that doesn’t mean he can’t become an invaluable two-way center who can dominate a game when he’s playing up to his potential

I agree with every part of that quote. His hockey sense is not a limiting factor for him becoming an NHLer or even a good one, but likely it's not high-end enough for him to be one of the top players in the league.

 

[ijuka]

Exactly. You cant be high risk and be #2 or #3 overall. It doesnt mean you have high potential. High risk implies that a player has several major deficiencies (or off ice issues) that may withhold him from making it to the NHL. Typically these players are really good at certain skills, but also have red flags. Think Kaliyev. One of the best shooters outside the NHL, but has major defensive holes that he must overcome if he ever wants to make it in the NHL. Byfield has high potential, and has small holes in his game.

When I think "safe prospects" I think players who have a high likelihood of being productive in the NHL. This doesnt mean best player in his draft class. Typically, I look at players closer to their full potential. In this draft, I would say those players are Lafreniere and Rossi. Both players who have a well rounded game and won't be bottom liners. Both are reasonably expected to be with their NHL clubs next season. I could also argue Sanderson, who plays a very steady game even though he is 1-2 years away.

Byfield, Stutzle, Raymond, Perfetti, Drysdale, Holtz, Lundell, etc. would not be considered safe prospects or high risk prospects. It's not one or the other.

Hm? Even Cam Robinson's own quote on Byfield is full of hopes and dreams.