C Mathew Barzal - Seattle Thunderbirds, WHL (2015, 16th, NYI)

[seafoam]

Grabner and Barzal? Crikey. Frans and Barzal is more like it. I'm far less confident in the translation of Barzal's offensive game than I am of his 2-way game.

I don't think he's that close to Frans either, unless you are just talking NYI here.

 

[Random Forest]

Not touching anything else, but he's a scout for the Blades. Hockey people obviously like how he views the game. I love R S' stuff. I know I'm going to miss his daily lineup updates. It was super handy.

Self-horn-tooting: I predicted Provorov to goto the Sharks in the HF mock, but I did say Meier was another option in that article.

That's fair, but I still don't like someone who fancies himself a professional engaging a poster in that manner. Not exclusive to RS either, but these days it doesn't take much for someone to read 100 different scouting reports and package them in his own words and produce blog posts that look informed with several "hits". Not that RS isn't informed, but what separates actual scouts from homemade, amateur bloggers is having a degree of professionalism along with your product. The product isn't very special when everyone has access to numerous scouting reports and junior streams. Few lists have any meaningful deviation from the consensus. And the ones that do end up getting criticized to hell and back. Go figure.

tl;dr: Tooting your own horn with players in the top 15 is laughable. Most people can rearrange a consensus list and end up with a handful of hits.

And for the record, I actually had Timo Meier to SJ in my own (amateur) mock draft. Given the Sharks history, something about him seems very much up their alley.

EDIT: And for the record, it's not the first time RS has lashed out at someone for being a bit critical. I wouldn't have posted otherwise.

 

[Felix Unger]

I don't think he's that close to Frans either, unless you are just talking NYI here.

For sure, Isles. But although I think that Barzal is a much fancier player, I'm not sure how much of that will end up translating to the bigs. I see Barzal ending up somewhere between the Nuge and Frans.

 

[seafoam]

For sure, Isles. But although I think that Barzal is a much fancier player, I'm not sure how much of that will end up translating to the bigs. I see Barzal ending up somewhere between the Nuge and Frans.

From what we've heard, Barzal's already able to use his skating to get seperation from NHL players, and has elusive instincts. Nielsen's never the type of lower body strength that I expect Barzal to have.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Darth, you're way off on this one. Barzal is already a very good backchecker. His two-way ability is one of his strengths.

As far as your comparison to Grabner, aside from speed they are nothing alike. Again, you should probably step away from any Barzal discussion because it's clear you don't have a handle on his game and don't realize the level of player that fell to the Isles. He is already their best prospect.

Yeah, sure. Somebody doesn't agree with you then they clearly don't have a "handle" on the issue and need to step away from the conversation.

The comparison to Grabner had to do with the way I see them both being effective defensively NOW - which is relying on speed and anticipation. I don't see Barzal as a natural defensive player at this point in time. At the NHL level, I don't think he'll be much more than adequate in his own end.


Its fine if you disagree with me, but then again I'm not arrogant enough to believe that anybody who sees a prospect differently than me should not participate in the conversation. I mean, you'd have to be really full of yourself to adopt that kind of position, no?

 

[Darth Milbury]

Grabner and Barzal? Crikey. Frans and Barzal is more like it. I'm far less confident in the translation of Barzal's offensive game than I am of his 2-way game.

Well, you are right. If anybody said that Barzal's full game would be a lot like Grabner, that would be silly. But, since nobody wrote that, I'm not sure what you are rebutting.


The only comparison between the players is that the both use speed and anticipation to forcheck effectively and neither is a natural backchecker, IMO.

 

[Darth Milbury]

That's fair, but I still don't like someone who fancies himself a professional engaging a poster in that manner. Not exclusive to RS either, but these days it doesn't take much for someone to read 100 different scouting reports and package them in his own words and produce blog posts that look informed with several "hits". Not that RS isn't informed, but what separates actual scouts from homemade, amateur bloggers is having a degree of professionalism along with your product. The product isn't very special when everyone has access to numerous scouting reports and junior streams. Few lists have any meaningful deviation from the consensus. And the ones that do end up getting criticized to hell and back. Go figure.

tl;dr: Tooting your own horn with players in the top 15 is laughable. Most people can rearrange a consensus list and end up with a handful of hits.

And for the record, I actually had Timo Meier to SJ in my own (amateur) mock draft. Given the Sharks history, something about him seems very much up their alley.

EDIT: And for the record, it's not the first time RS has lashed out at someone for being a bit critical. I wouldn't have posted otherwise.

I'm ok with RS's response to me, and I personally think his blog is very thoughtful and analytic. Its OK for us to have heated discussions. Part of what makes the board fun.

 

[Konk]

Yeah, sure. Somebody doesn't agree with you then they clearly don't have a "handle" on the issue and need to step away from the conversation.

The comparison to Grabner had to do with the way I see them both being effective defensively NOW - which is relying on speed and anticipation. I don't see Barzal as a natural defensive player at this point in time. At the NHL level, I don't think he'll be much more than adequate in his own end.


Its fine if you disagree with me, but then again I'm not arrogant enough to believe that anybody who sees a prospect differently than me should not participate in the conversation. I mean, you'd have to be really full of yourself to adopt that kind of position, no?

Funny, I would've thought forming an opinion on a player who you've only watched in preseason scrimmages and attempting to argue people who've been watching him live for a few years would be considered arrogant, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Hey, how about I read 10 pages out of a Psychology book and then act like my opinion is just as good as yours on the matter? How's that sound?

 

[R S]

That's fair, but I still don't like someone who fancies himself a professional engaging a poster in that manner. Not exclusive to RS either, but these days it doesn't take much for someone to read 100 different scouting reports and package them in his own words and produce blog posts that look informed with several "hits". Not that RS isn't informed, but what separates actual scouts from homemade, amateur bloggers is having a degree of professionalism along with your product. The product isn't very special when everyone has access to numerous scouting reports and junior streams. Few lists have any meaningful deviation from the consensus. And the ones that do end up getting criticized to hell and back. Go figure.

tl;dr: Tooting your own horn with players in the top 15 is laughable. Most people can rearrange a consensus list and end up with a handful of hits.

And for the record, I actually had Timo Meier to SJ in my own (amateur) mock draft. Given the Sharks history, something about him seems very much up their alley.

EDIT: And for the record, it's not the first time RS has lashed out at someone for being a bit critical. I wouldn't have posted otherwise.

Lashed out? I think all I was doing was giving my side of the story a bit more perspective as it was being criticized. But, hey, if that came across as unprofessional to some, I'm not sure what to say. I haven't posted on here since July and stuff like this is the reason why. I think I am extremely professional but it's always been clear to me that some people think of me as arrogant both here and on Twitter. That's definitely not my intention but that's what happens in a digital medium. Oh well, not much I can do about that stuff now.

I never meant to start anything here so I'll gladly step out and go back into hiding.

 

[Konk]

Lashed out? I think all I was doing was giving my side of the story a bit more perspective as it was being criticized. But, hey, if that came across as unprofessional to some, I'm not sure what to say. I haven't posted on here since July and stuff like this is the reason why. I think I am extremely professional but it's always been clear to me that some people think of me as arrogant both here and on Twitter. That's definitely not my intention but that's what happens in a digital medium. Oh well, not much I can do about that stuff now.

I never meant to start anything here so I'll gladly step out and go back into hiding.

I don't think you're arrogant at all and I value your insight. Then again, apparently I'm also considered arrogant by some.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Lashed out? I think all I was doing was giving my side of the story a bit more perspective as it was being criticized. But, hey, if that came across as unprofessional to some, I'm not sure what to say. I haven't posted on here since July and stuff like this is the reason why. I think I am extremely professional but it's always been clear to me that some people think of me as arrogant both here and on Twitter. That's definitely not my intention but that's what happens in a digital medium. Oh well, not much I can do about that stuff now.

I never meant to start anything here so I'll gladly step out and go back into hiding.

You weren't especially rude. And we all respect your opinion. I hope you'll contribute more.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Funny, I would've thought forming an opinion on a player who you've only watched in preseason scrimmages and attempting to argue people who've been watching him live for a few years would be considered arrogant, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Hey, how about I read 10 pages out of a Psychology book and then act like my opinion is just as good as yours on the matter? How's that sound?

This is a chatboard. We're all entitled to our opinions. Don't like them, don't think somebody knows what they are talking about, fine. Nobody's forcing you to read. What you don't get to do is decide who need to "back out" of a thread because you personally don't like their opinion.

That indeed was quite an inappropriate and pompous statement.

 

[Konk]

This is a chatboard. We're all entitled to our opinions. Don't like them, don't think somebody knows what they are talking about, fine. Nobody's forcing you to read. What you don't get to do is decide who need to "back out" of a thread because you personally don't like their opinion.

That indeed was quite an inappropriate and pompous statement.

Oh right, you're completely innocent of pomposity right?

You can act like you respect RS' opinion now all you want since he made an appearance, but you clearly had a different tone originally and were quite pompous yourself in your original comments referencing his blog and opinion on Barzal.

You don't realize it, but you're about as pompous as it gets on these boards.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Lashed out? I think all I was doing was giving my side of the story a bit more perspective as it was being criticized. But, hey, if that came across as unprofessional to some, I'm not sure what to say. I haven't posted on here since July and stuff like this is the reason why. I think I am extremely professional but it's always been clear to me that some people think of me as arrogant both here and on Twitter. That's definitely not my intention but that's what happens in a digital medium. Oh well, not much I can do about that stuff now.

I never meant to start anything here so I'll gladly step out and go back into hiding.

Please don't go back into hiding. You are one of the true value adds on this board. Ignore the keyboard warriors who are just jealous and add nothing. The vast majority value your posts, twitter and blog. Thanks for the great work. And go Barzal!

 

[SI90]

Please don't go back into hiding. You are one of the true value adds on this board. Ignore the keyboard warriors who are just jealous and add nothing. The vast majority value your posts, twitter and blog. Thanks for the great work. And go Barzal!

This!!

 

[MatthewFlames]

If Barzal does get into a few games and continues to impress and really add value to the team, I think the Isles won't be afraid to keep him up. He won't fave the kind of pressure that often comes with 18/19 year olds who make the NHL on bad teams. The Isles can protect him and develop him. I am usually a proponent of slow development and sending players back to junior. But Barzal has a confidence that most kids don't. He will be fine.

 

[Macch]

Unless a last minute trade happens, I don't really see Barzal getting game time.

It would be best for him to take what he learned in preseason and head back to juniors.

I'm guessing they'll let him play the last preseason game on Sunday and return him after.

 

[SI90]

If Barzal does get into a few games and continues to impress and really add value to the team, I think the Isles won't be afraid to keep him up. He won't fave the kind of pressure that often comes with 18/19 year olds who make the NHL on bad teams. The Isles can protect him and develop him. I am usually a proponent of slow development and sending players back to junior. But Barzal has a confidence that most kids don't. He will be fine.

I just don't think the isles will put that pressure on the 18 year old to perform at atleast a top 9 level for an 82 game season. Another reason is Barzal missed a lot of time last year and an 82 game NHL schedule can be harsh. The isles are at the point where the team is deep enough and strong enough where they don't need to play and keep a young prospect with the big club. If this was 08, I could see it but not now.

Barzal has been impressive though.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I just don't think the isles will put that pressure on the 18 year old to perform at atleast a top 9 level for an 82 game season. Another reason is Barzal missed a lot of time last year and an 82 game NHL schedule can be harsh. The isles are at the point where the team is deep enough and strong enough where they don't need to play and keep a young prospect with the big club. If this was 08, I could see it but not now.

Barzal has been impressive though.

Barzal reminds me of Sean Monahan in many regards. The Flames didn't really need to keep him as an 18 year old but he just kept proving he should be in the NHL.

If Barzal performs, I don't really care what the team philosophy is or what the roster makeup is now. If Barzal makes the Isles better they will make room for him and keep him. The question now is if he can keep up the level of performance once the real deal starts (if they havent already sent him down)

 

[Darth Milbury]

If Barzal does get into a few games and continues to impress and really add value to the team, I think the Isles won't be afraid to keep him up. He won't fave the kind of pressure that often comes with 18/19 year olds who make the NHL on bad teams. The Isles can protect him and develop him. I am usually a proponent of slow development and sending players back to junior. But Barzal has a confidence that most kids don't. He will be fine.

I don't think I agree with you. First, the Isles recent history is to bring along kids quite slowly (if when they are ready) as per Strome. The organizational mantra seems to be to keep kids in junior for their full eligibility and then go with the AHL for at least some chunk of time. IMO, that's a reasonable development strategy for where the team is now.

Second, the Isles really don't have room for another forward right now.


And, third, Barzal's speed, shiftiness, and smarts were all on display in the games he played. But, he also made some significant turnovers and was a bit lost in his own zone. Like any 18-YO, he has some work to do to round out his game.


One of the issues Newsday hinted about was Barzal's attitude. Management seems to love his drive and confidence. The kid seems to really have his head glued on, which bodes very well for his future.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Unless a last minute trade happens, I don't really see Barzal getting game time.

It would be best for him to take what he learned in preseason and head back to juniors.

I'm guessing they'll let him play the last preseason game on Sunday and return him after.

I absolutely agree with you, although I don't think that watching a few games in the bigs as a reward for his fantastic camp would be a bad thing.

 

[Felix Unger]

I absolutely agree with you, although I don't think that watching a few games in the bigs as a reward for his fantastic camp would be a bad thing.

Not to mention a little extra spending cash to the tune of, what, 50 G's+ after taxes?

 

[Riseonfire]

Not to mention a little extra spending cash to the tune of, what, 50 G's+ after taxes?

I'll take that pay to watch some hockey.....

Professional Healthy Scratch.

 

[rockhouse15]

I'll take that pay to watch some hockey.....

Professional Healthy Scratch.

I thought that was Eric Boulton's job?

 

[Darth Milbury]

I thought that was Eric Boulton's job?

Ouch. That one is going to leave a mark in the morning.

LOL.