C Ivan Ryabkin - MHK Dynamo Moscow, MHL (2025 Draft)

[Hanji]

Svechnikov, Mintyukov, Suniev, Gridin, Yegorov, Kuznetsov (Yan), Chaly, Provorov, Levshunov...

I could have given you plenty of cases but you will always find an argumentative bias by saying that one played in BCHL, the other in OHL, the other is Belarusian, etc...

My basic idea is that Ryabkin did not sign a KHL contract and can leave Russia. Russian players have already left. Gridin did it at 16. The Russian federation has always been concerned about the departure of Russian players to North America.Neither you nor I know Ryabkin's thoughts. But seeing him leave Russia to play 1 year in the USHL then play in the NCAA is a possible scenario.

And whatever happens I will stick to my idea that USHL is superior to MHL. Besides, if I posted a poll on the site, people would say that there is no debate possible.

A few years ago Russia's National U18 Team competed in the MHL. They tied for 5th. The NTDP has placed anywhere from high to low in the USHL; yet they frequently use U17 players. The proper U18 NTDP is regularly defeating NCAA schools in exhibitions.

The U18 NTDP and Russia's U18 are not on different levels. Games between the two at the U18 worlds have been amazing. This should give you a solid comparison between the leagues.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

No, YOU dont know MHL players. That’s why you’re out of your league on this topic.

On the whole, MHLers arent performing any worse in the USHL.
If the USHL was significantly better you’d see a significant dip in production/usage across the board.
That isnt happening.

Have an opinion, fine. But now stop hijacking this thread..…especially considering you admit you have a very rudimentary knowledge about the MHL.

The problem is that you don't know the MHL players either, except for 10 players at most. Yesterday I was on Kucherov's file. Same production in MHL at U19 as in QMJHL at U20. If you rely on this data, you can already see that there is a difference in level between MHL and QMJHL.

The best Russians, in their year of eligibility, most of them already no longer play in MHL. While the best Americans, except for one player born in 2005, they are all in the USHL. And as already mentioned, the fact that there are much fewer teams in the USHL + 20% foreign players leads to a densification of talent.

Where are the players at the level of Cole Eiserman (I'm not going to name all the Team USA players), Trevor Connelly, Michael Hage, Tory Pitner, Julian Lutz, Sasha Boisvert? Who are these players who outperform Matvei Gridin? Who are these players who make you miserable?

Demidov, Ryabkin, Surin and after? Who are the Russian prodigies that everyone is missing out on? Name the names.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

A few years ago Russia's National U18 Team competed in the MHL. They tied for 5th. The NTDP has placed anywhere from high to low in the USHL; yet they frequently use U17 players. The proper U18 NTDP is regularly defeating NCAA schools in exhibitions.

The U18 NTDP and Russia's U18 are not on different levels. Games between the two at the U18 worlds have been amazing. This should give you a solid comparison between the leagues.

Over the last 5 seasons, NTDP has not reached the top 8 USHL. The last time was with the best U17 team in program history.

USA outperformed Russia at the U18 World Championship 9 times out of 10.

Again, USHL only has 17 teams with 20% foreign players, MHL 31 teams with the best U18s often elsewhere (KHL, VHL, North America) and no foreigners.

MHL is made up mainly of players who could not join a USHL team.

USHL is therefore necessarily higher than MHL, it's mathematical.

 

[Hanji]

Over the last 5 seasons, NTDP has not reached the top 8 USHL. The last time was with the best U17 team in program history.

USA outperformed Russia at the U19 World Championship 9 times out of 10.

Again, USHL only has 17 teams with 20% foreign players, MHL 31 teams with the best U18s often elsewhere and no foreigners.

MHL is made up mainly of players who could not join a USHL team.

USHL is therefore necessarily higher than MHL, it's mathematical.

The NTDP U18 squad is regularly defeating NCAA schools. Russia's U18 Team could do the same. So could Finland, Canada, or Sweden. We are not on a different level than these other nations.
Yet Russia's U18 could only place 5th in the MHL. This is fact. That's a testiment to the strengh of that league.
I attend Madison Capitol games regularly. You're overrating the USHL to drastic levels.

 

[Hanji]

The problem is that you don't know the MHL players either, except for 10 players at most. Yesterday I was on Kucherov's file. Same production in MHL at U19 as in QMJHL at U20. If you rely on this data, you can already see that there is a difference in level between MHL and QMJHL.

The best Russians, in their year of eligibility, most of them already no longer play in MHL. While the best Americans, except for one player born in 2005, they are all in the USHL. And as already mentioned, the fact that there are much fewer teams in the USHL + 20% foreign players leads to a densification of talent.

Where are the players at the level of Cole Eiserman (I'm not going to name all the Team USA players), Trevor Connelly, Michael Hage, Tory Pitner, Julian Lutz, Sasha Boisvert? Who are these players who outperform Matvei Gridin? Who are these players who make you miserable?

Demidov, Ryabkin, Surin and after? Who are the Russian prodigies that everyone is missing out on? Name the names.

If Ryabkin and Surin are the best players in the MHL, why are they not running away with the scoring title?
Why, as already illustrated to you, are they not good enough for a U20 squad filled with other MHL skaters? Your reasoning would then suggest Surin and Ryabkin are not USHL level players; yet garbage skaters like Nizameyev, Voronin, Rybakov and Katin are?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

If Ryabkin and Surin are the best players in the MHL, why are they not running away with the scoring title?
Why, as already illustrated to you, are they not good enough for a U20 squad filled with other MHL skaters? Your reasoning would then suggest Surin and Ryabkin are not USHL level players; yet garbage skaters like Nizameyev, Voronin, Rybakov and Katin are?

I said that more than half of MHL players do not have the level to play in the USHL. Not Ryabkin and Surin.

Several players have more points but they are players born in 2004-2005. Some play in teams located in the east where the level is really low.


Points are distorted in MHL. Ryabkin is probably already the best player on his team and better than players with more points. Anyway, I didn't highlight 19-year-old no names to talk about the best USHL players. The equivalent in level to Ryabkin in the USHL would be a player like Charles Trethewey. I didn't talk about him.

Among the 900 MHL players, very few have a professional career. USHL is only 500 players with many more players ending up in the NHL and a pro league.

We can also count in drafted players and even if the Russian factor removes a few players, we are very far from the number of USHL players.

To refocus on Ryabkin or more generally on a 17-year-old player, the plan to play 1 year in the USHL then in the NCAA can be attractive.If it were not, the Russian federation would not have to worry about players leaving to play on North American circuits.There is obvious attractiveness. Levshunov took this path rather than MHL. Gridin too.

Because going to play in the USHL for a year necessarily implies having a plan to play in the NCAA from 18 to 20 years old before playing in the AHL. Do I have to debate to affirm my idea that NCAA is indefinitely higher than MHL ?

That several high-caliber Russian prospects preferred to continue their development in North America?

 

[WarriorofTime]

There is obvious attractiveness. Levshunov took this path rather than MHL. Gridin too.

Levshunov had the late birthday which allowed him to play in the USHL for a year and then a year of college hockey before his draft. I can't imagine Ryabkin has the American schooling requirements (he is only 16 right now) to play in the NCAA next year.

Gridin is likely gonna go in the 2nd round...USHL proper players (non-USNDTP) are generally not drafted until the 2nd round, a few went round 1 (but nobody top 10) when COVID shutdown the Canadian Junior leagues (not sure if some of those kids would have been CHL otherwise). A kid can push towards late-1st but that's usually the ceiling for a USHL proper player. A very very raw (needed massive amount of time in the weight room) in Casey Mittelstadt who split time in Minnesota HS/USHL was the absolute apex at 8th overall but he did have good national experience as a callup to the U18 team the prior season.

Ryabkin's best bet for his draft status is to get some KHL callup games next season. The lack of international stuff hurts these Russian guys because it's a more apples to apples comparison with the top North American kids and a chance to be seen in person, but just means NHL scouts need to scout better.

 

[Caser]

I said that more than half of MHL players do not have the level to play in the USHL. Not Ryabkin and Surin.

Several players have more points but they are players born in 2004-2005. Some play in teams located in the east where the level is really low.

When I was talking about better players, I was talking about potential players. Surin is very near the top. Ryabkin is still only an U17 player and that was the initial topic. I didn't highlight 19-year-old no names to talk about the best USHL players.

The equivalent in level to Ryabkin in the USHL would be a player like Charles Trethewey. I didn't talk about it.

Among the 900 MHL players, very few have a professional career. USHL is only 500 players with many more players ending up in the NHL and a pro league.

We can also count in drafted players and even if the Russian factor removes a few players, we are very far from the number of USHL players.

To refocus on Ryabkin or more generally on a 17-year-old player, the plan to play 1 year in the USHL then in the NCAA can be attractive.If it were not, the Russian federation would not have to worry about players leaving to play on North American circuits.There is obvious attractiveness. Levshunov took this path rather than MHL. Gridin too.

That's quite a mix of stuff here... I hope you realize that player's potential and current strength are different things and actually very different at that age. Also hope that you are realizing that for the junior leagues strength and development value are also rather different (yet connected) things.

Also since you are telling that you don't know much of MHL players, it might be worth to spend some time to do some research about players, about the top talent producing orgs, about the MHL divisions etc. Otherwise what you are saying sounds like "I don't know much about the MHL, but it sucks" and it doesn't look too good from a critical point of view.

As for the Russian factor, 21 players were drafted from the MHL last year, won't be unreasonable to assume that without the factor it would be around 40, for the USHL it was 51, so not that far, especially considering that as a NA league it is much heavily scouted.

 

[Hanji]

I said that more than half of MHL players do not have the level to play in the USHL. Not Ryabkin and Surin.

Several players have more points but they are players born in 2004-2005. Some play in teams located in the east where the level is really low.


Points are distorted in MHL. Ryabkin is probably already the best player on his team and better than players with more points. Anyway, I didn't highlight 19-year-old no names to talk about the best USHL players. The equivalent in level to Ryabkin in the USHL would be a player like Charles Trethewey. I didn't talk about him.

Among the 900 MHL players, very few have a professional career. USHL is only 500 players with many more players ending up in the NHL and a pro league.

We can also count in drafted players and even if the Russian factor removes a few players, we are very far from the number of USHL players.

To refocus on Ryabkin or more generally on a 17-year-old player, the plan to play 1 year in the USHL then in the NCAA can be attractive.If it were not, the Russian federation would not have to worry about players leaving to play on North American circuits.There is obvious attractiveness. Levshunov took this path rather than MHL. Gridin too.

Because going to play in the USHL for a year necessarily implies having a plan to play in the NCAA from 18 to 20 years old before playing in the AHL. Do I have to debate to affirm my idea that NCAA is indefinitely higher than MHL ?

That several high-caliber Russian prospects preferred to continue their development in North America?

Now you're just making things up. A skater like Rybakov had no problems stepping into the USHL a year after not being good enough for the MHL. Rybakov was behind same age teammate Karpov in Yaroslavl's depth chart; Karpov still has difficulty sticking with Yaroslavl's top MHL team to this day.

You're all over the place, conflicting yourself regularly. MHL scrubs are good enough to play in the USHL. I'd recommend you attend some USHL games.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

That's quite a mix of stuff here... I hope you realize that player's potential and current strength are different things and actually very different at that age. Also hope that you are realizing that for the junior leagues strength and development value are also rather different (yet connected) things.

Also since you are telling that you don't know much of MHL players, it might be worth to spend some time to do some research about players, about the top talent producing orgs, about the MHL divisions etc. Otherwise what you are saying sounds like "I don't know much about the MHL, but it sucks" and it doesn't look too good from a critical point of view.

As for the Russian factor, 21 players were drafted from the MHL last year, won't be unreasonable to assume that without the factor it would be around 40, for the USHL it was 51, so not that far, especially considering that as a NA league it is much heavily scouted.

My post is a response to points made by another user.

Furthermore, I think you greatly overestimate the number of MHL prospects who would have been drafted. There weren't that many before 2022.

There are only 58 Russians in the NHL. This is less than Sweden and not much more than Finland.

Furthermore, I think you greatly overestimate the number of MHL prospects who would have been drafted. There weren't that many before 2022.

There are only 58 Russians in the NHL. This is less than Sweden and not much more than Finland.

Beyond quantity, there is the question of talent density.

The size of the MHL circuit is the equivalent of two junior leagues. The presence of 31 teams greatly weakens the league but I have the impression that many here seem to have difficulty understanding this notion. In a 16 team league, the weaker half of the league would be in a lower division.

Russia only produces on average 5 NHL players/year. This gives an idea of the level of a mass of 900 players among a generation.

 

[Zine]

There is obvious attractiveness. Levshunov took this path rather than MHL.

Levshunov had the late birthday which allowed him to play in the USHL for a year and then a year of college hockey before his draft. I can't imagine Ryabkin has the American schooling requirements (he is only 16 right now) to play in the NCAA next year.

Gridin is likely gonna go in the 2nd round...USHL proper players (non-USNDTP) are generally not drafted until the 2nd round, a few went round 1 (but nobody top 10) when COVID shutdown the Canadian Junior leagues (not sure if some of those kids would have been CHL otherwise). A kid can push towards late-1st but that's usually the ceiling for a USHL proper player. A very very raw (needed massive amount of time in the weight room) in Casey Mittelstadt who split time in Minnesota HS/USHL was the absolute apex at 8th overall but he did have good national experience as a callup to the U18 team the prior season.

Ryabkin's best bet for his draft status is to get some KHL callup games next season. The lack of international stuff hurts these Russian guys because it's a more apples to apples comparison with the top North American kids and a chance to be seen in person, but just means NHL scouts need to scout better.

The situation is different for Belarusians. Until last year they didnt have a MHL team, nor do they have a VHL affiliate. All those Belarusians in North America wouldve been stuck in the Belarus/Belarus Jr leagues if not KHL ready.

So I can at least understand the attractiveness of the USHL -> College, or CHL path for those guys.

 

[ag3r]

Lol, almost all good 18+ years old prospects from USHL are playing in NCAA, so argument about top Russian prospects leaving for NHL does not stand at all

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Lol, almost all good 18+ years old prospects from USHL are playing in NCAA, so argument about top Russian prospects leaving for NHL does not stand at all

The best MHL players also leave for the VHL and KHL, even before being eligible for the best. In the USHL, there are also 19-20 year old players... Julian Lutz, Lukas Swedin, Joe Connor... Very few U17 players in the USHL too...

 

[Zine]

My post is a response to points made by another user.

Furthermore, I think you greatly overestimate the number of MHL prospects who would have been drafted. There weren't that many before 2022.

There are only 58 Russians in the NHL. This is less than Sweden and not much more than Finland.

Furthermore, I think you greatly overestimate the number of MHL prospects who would have been drafted. There weren't that many before 2022.

There are only 58 Russians in the NHL. This is less than Sweden and not much more than Finland.

Beyond quantity, there is the question of talent density.

The size of the MHL circuit is the equivalent of two junior leagues. The presence of 31 teams greatly weakens the league but I have the impression that many here seem to have difficulty understanding this notion. In a 16 team league, the weaker half of the league would be in a lower division.

Russia only produces on average 5 NHL players/year. This gives an idea of the level of a mass of 900 players among a generation.

That there's only 58 Russians in the NHL is why there's a Russian factor.
The pull of the Russian league has always been considerably stronger for Russians than Swedes, Finns and their domestic leagues.
NHL teams understand this and draft accordingly. You're making Caser's point for him/her.

 

[Caser]

My post is a response to points made by another user.

Furthermore, I think you greatly overestimate the number of MHL prospects who would have been drafted. There weren't that many before 2022.

There are only 58 Russians in the NHL. This is less than Sweden and not much more than Finland.

Furthermore, I think you greatly overestimate the number of MHL prospects who would have been drafted. There weren't that many before 2022.

There are only 58 Russians in the NHL. This is less than Sweden and not much more than Finland.

Beyond quantity, there is the question of talent density.

The size of the MHL circuit is the equivalent of two junior leagues. The presence of 31 teams greatly weakens the league but I have the impression that many here seem to have difficulty understanding this notion. In a 16 team league, the weaker half of the league would be in a lower division.

Russia only produces on average 5 NHL players/year. This gives an idea of the level of a mass of 900 players among a generation.

In 2019 (took this year to remove the later Covid influence) with the weaker but still existing Russian factor and much lower talent production there were about 30 MHL guys drafted, why wouldn't there be 40 with the talent rich pools like it is in the recent years (not to mention the factor, as it is impossible to totally remove that)?

The talent density is why I mentioned the MHL divisions - the league is split in stronger and weaker divisions, so the stronger teams like Dynamo is would play other strong teams more frequently.

As for the number of NHLers I'm sure you are aware that Russian players in general are not too tempted by the 4th line NHL roles or by even borderline NHL roles like players from other countries are - just because they can make much more at home and money matters. If all the KHL's Shipachyovs, Gusevs, Semyonovs, Zernovs etc. would suddenly decide they want to be in the NHL they'll get at least some games there and would increase that number of NHLers , yet they are not too interested for obvious reasons.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

In 2019 (took this year to remove the later Covid influence) with the weaker but still existing Russian factor and much lower talent production there were about 30 MHL guys drafted, why wouldn't there be 40 with the talent rich pools like it is in the recent years (not to mention the factor, as it is impossible to totally remove that)?

The talent density is why I mentioned the MHL divisions - the league is split in stronger and weaker divisions, so the stronger teams like Dynamo is would play other strong teams more frequently.

As for the number of NHLers I'm sure you are aware that Russian players in general are not too tempted by the 4th line NHL roles or by even borderline NHL roles like players from other countries are - just because they can make much more at home and money matters. If all the KHL's Shipachyovs, Gusevs, Semyonovs, Zernovs etc. would suddenly decide they want to be in the NHL they'll get at least some games there and would increase that number of NHLers , yet they are not too interested for obvious reasons.

MHK Dynamo Moskva - Roster, News, Stats & more

MHK Dynamo Moskva - MHL - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

Green Bay Gamblers - Roster, News, Stats & more

Green Bay Gamblers - USHL - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

No, but just look at the difference in quality of rosters.

No debate.

 

[Zine]

The best MHL players also leave for the VHL and KHL, even before being eligible for the best. In the USHL, there are also 19-20 year old players... Julian Lutz, Lukas Swedin, Joe Connor... Very few U17 players in the USHL too...

Which again validates Caser's argument that potential and current strength are very different things..
Its how a Jake Sondreal can lead the USHL in points.

How is he different than undrafted MHLers? Actually, on average, an undrafted North American is probably worse as they are scouted much, much more than MHLers.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Which again validates Caser's argument that potential and current strength are very different things..
Its how a Jake Sondreal can lead the USHL in points.

How is he different than undrafted MHLers? Actually, on average, an undrafted North American is probably worse as they are scouted much, much more than MHLers.

Even accounting for age, I just saw that Green Bay has a higher average age than Dynamo. And the other teams too. As already said, USHL has very few U17 players and when they do, they are very strong players. Zachary Morin in Quebec was a huge player. He would have gone top 3 if he had entered the Q draft.

 

[Caser]

The best MHL players also leave for the VHL and KHL, even before being eligible for the best. In the USHL, there are also 19-20 year old players... Julian Lutz, Lukas Swedin, Joe Connor... Very few U17 players in the USHL too...

Best yes, but how many of them? In general teams are rather shy to give chances to their young players and not all of them have proper VHL affiliations unfortunately. As for the USHL my observations are showing that the majority of the drafted players go right to the NCAA (I must admit it is just the impression though) already in their D+1 year.

MHK Dynamo Moskva - Roster, News, Stats & more

MHK Dynamo Moskva - MHL - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

Green Bay Gamblers - Roster, News, Stats & more

Green Bay Gamblers - USHL - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

No, but just look at the difference in quality of rosters.

No debate.

Are you serious here? Yegorov, Kudashov, Limatov, Patalakha, Taimazov, Verbitsky, Chernyshov, Maximov, Rimashevsky, Ryabkin, Zaitsev - all of the players who were regular on their year's U18 teams. No debate indeed lol.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Best yes, but how many of them? In general teams are rather shy to give chances to their young players and not all of them have proper VHL affiliations unfortunately. As for the USHL my observations are showing that the majority of the drafted players go right to the NCAA (I must admit it is just the impression though) already in their D+1 year.


Are you serious here? Yegorov, Kudashov, Limatov, Patalakha, Taimazov, Verbitsky, Chernyshov, Maximov, Rimashevsky, Ryabkin, Zaitsev - all of the players who were regular on their year's U18 teams. No debate indeed lol.

Next to Ryabkin, only no-names or guys who no longer play in MHL.

 

[Zine]

Even accounting for age, I just saw that Green Bay has a higher average age than Dynamo. And the other teams too. As already said, USHL has very few U17 players and when they do, they are very strong players. Zachary Morin in Quebec was a huge player. He would have gone top 3 if he had entered the Q draft.

That still doesnt explain how an undrafted 'nobody' can lead the USHL in scoring.

This is the exact situation you give to downplay the MHL, yet it is currently occurring in the USHL.

 

[Caser]

Next to Ryabkin, only no-names or guys who no longer play in MHL.

Oh yeah, especially that Chernyshov guy is the no-name. If they are no-names I'm not sure what to say about that Gamblers roster, it is literally Gajan & some boys lol.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

That still doesnt explain how an undrafted 'nobody' can lead the USHL in scoring.

This is the exact situation you give to downplay the MHL, yet it is currently occurring in the USHL.

I minimized MHL by the very large number of teams (31), by a negative talent migration balance (no foreigners arrive, Russians leave) and a better American national level compared to the Russian level.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Oh yeah, especially that Chernyshov guy is the no-name. If they are no-names I'm not sure what to say about that Gamblers roster, it is literally Gajan & some boys lol.

It seems to me that he recently played in the KHL. No ?

Benjamin Poitras, Julian Lutz, Adam Gajan, Libor Nemec, Michael DeAngelo, Jayson Shaugabay, Lev Katzin, Chris Romaine, Rasmus Larsson are famous guys for those who follow.

 

[Caser]

It seems to me that he recently played in the KHL. No ?

Benjamin Poitras, Julian Lutz, Adam Gajan, Libor Nemec, Michael DeAngelo, Jayson Shaugabay, Lev Katzin, Chris Romaine, Rasmus Larsson are famous guys for those who follow.

The guys I named previously are famous for those who follow too, the only difference here is that I don't pretend to be following USHL enough to make some judgments.

Chernyshov is like yesterday in the KHL, tomorrow in the MHL and so on - usual practice, no surprise for those who actually follow.