C Connor McDavid - Erie Otters, OHL (2015 Draft) II

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Considering I played in the league, went to school for it and am now hired by a very successful franchise to evaluate and develop talent, I'm going to say that yes I am actually much more qualified than most people at evaluating talent. Sorry.

Sounds like Mike Milbury.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Mario did dominate his league is his second year. Only two players had more points, and one was Pat Lafontaine, who was one of the best NHL players of his generation, the other being a prototypical small 20 year old forward in the Q during the 80's. There was a big drop after those 3.

But nothing like Crosby did!!! And to further my point, its actually very possible that McDavid finish in the top 3 in his 2nd season, and may even lead the OHL in scoring if his scoring pace picks up a bit.

 

[spfan]

So Crosby was the better junior player. You're making it seem that it's not possible McDavid becomes just as good in the NHL.

That's ridiculous. Him and Tavares are about on par as junior players, but anyone that watched both will tell you that McDavid is a better prospect than Tavares was and projects to be better in the future.

It for sure is possible that a player can outplay another player that was better in junior.

Tavares is a better junior player than McDavid so far though.
Tavares was almost 4 months younger and putting up quite a bit more points.
Oshawa was also nowhere near Erie's level. Tavares had less to work with.
McDavid's speed might make him the better NHLer though.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Sounds like Mike Milbury.

Sounds a lot like Scotty Bowman, Holland, Mike B, and many successful hockey people as well.

Now you're saying that I am bad with my job, which I take as greatly offensive. I've had my position for years scouting and developing players, and as I said, have been VERY successful doing so. I've had many players come and go to the NHL since I've been in my position. If you want to attack my job qualifications, then PM me, I have quite a few words I'd like to say to you that I can't say on here.

I see now that you're one of those people who think that they're better than the trained and successful hockey personnel.

Let me put it this way, if you were as good as you think you are at scouting hockey talent, you'd be doing it.

 

[Halfy]

I am angered by the things that are contradictory being said on this post by certain posters.

 

[nbwingsfan]

But nothing like Crosby did!!! And to further my point, its actually very possible that McDavid finish in the top 3 in his 2nd season, and may even lead the OHL in scoring if his scoring pace picks up a bit.

I've had quite enough to say to you, I'll be sure to eat my words if McDavid is putting up 100 pts in a couple years in the NHL, but it's not going to happen.

 

[Future]

They have many of the same qualities, and am very willing to bet that McDavid and Mackinnon end up on the same level in the NHL.

Both have been compared to Crosby, neither will ever be as good as Crosby (or Malkin, or a peak Ovi)

You seem like a really intelligent poster but you have to be kidding that you think Mackinnon will = McDavid in the NHL. McDavid thinks the game so far ahead of Mackinnon. That alone will make him a better NHL player.

I'm starting to think this is becoming like a hipster thing.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Sounds a lot like Scotty Bowman, Holland, Mike B, and many successful hockey people as well.

Now you're saying that I am bad with my job, which I take as greatly offensive. I've had my position for years scouting and developing players, and as I said, have been VERY successful doing so. I've had many players come and go to the NHL since I've been in my position. If you want to attack my job qualifications, then PM me, I have quite a few words I'd like to say to you that I can't say on here.

I see now that you're one of those people who think that they're better than the trained and successful hockey personnel.

Let me put it this way, if you were as good as you think you are at scouting hockey talent, you'd be doing it.

Wow, sensitive much? Take it easy no one is attacking you. I'm genuinely happy for you, its great to work in hockey. But it in no way implies that you can arbitrarily claim that your opinion is "right" simply because of your occupation. I see now that you're one of those people who thinks that because they have done some scouting their opinions are automatically superior.

Btw, while working in hockey is great, it takes years of hard work and simply knowing the right people to make it into a lucrative career. And many people who may be extremely talented in identifying talent understand this reality and are opt to earn significantly more money doing something else they enjoy. I'm happy to do what I do now and retire by 40.

 

[Future]

I've had quite enough to say to you, I'll be sure to eat my words if McDavid is putting up 100 pts in a couple years in the NHL, but it's not going to happen.

I'm gonna call you out on this in a few years. Idk what makes you so sure he won't pot 100

 

[nbwingsfan]

You seem like a really intelligent poster but you have to be kidding that you think Mackinnon will = McDavid in the NHL. McDavid thinks the game so far ahead of Mackinnon. That alone will make him a better NHL player.

I'm starting to think this is becoming like a hipster thing.

I never meant they will be the same player, just on the same "Level". The same way that many people consider players like Stamkos, Tavares, Getz, etc are in that same category. Great players, but not quite on the level of a peak Ovi, Crosby and Malkin.

McDavid will likely put up more points, but he wont have that physical edge that people are going to love from MacKinnon.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I'm gonna call you out on this in a few years if that's cool with you.

Hopefully I'll be doing the same to you . I'd love to see McDavid make me look ridiculous and end up the new "best player" in the NHL, its great for the game. I just don't see it happening.

 

[YNWA14]

I do not. perhaps you missed how I said that truly elite players often dominate from the get go, it doesn't take them 3 years to dominate their league.

McDavid is now in his second season, and he's not even the top point getter on his team, let alone dominating the league. Which AGAIN does not mean he's a bad player, just that he has not shown me that he will be one of the top 3 players in the NHL.

Stamkos? St. Louis? Subban? Iginla? Sedin? Getzlaf? Staal? Perry? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Etc. Etc.

There are more examples of players that didn't dominate the way Tavares and Crosby did that end up going on to become elite players than the reverse.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I'm gonna call you out on this in a few years. Idk what makes you so sure he won't pot 100

I never said he won't put up 100, I actually think he will (or at least come close a few times). I just meant that I expect him to take more of a "Tavares/Stamkos" path in the NHL, where he starts off around 50-60 points and gradually gets better. Instead of instantly putting up over 100 points his first 2 years.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Stamkos? St. Louis? Subban? Iginla? Sedin? Getzlaf? Staal? Perry? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Etc. Etc.

There are more examples of players that didn't dominate the way Tavares and Crosby did that end up going on to become elite players than the reverse.

How many times do I have to keep saying this... I fully expect McDavid to be elite, 100% he will be a first line player that every team will want. What I'm saying is he will not be as good as Crosby, and will not be the best player in the NHL by his second season the same way players like Crosby, Malkin and Ovi.

 

[YNWA14]

I never said he won't put up 100, I actually think he will (or at least come close a few times). I just meant that I expect him to take more of a "Tavares/Stamkos" path in the NHL, where he starts off around 50-60 points and gradually gets better. Instead of instantly putting up over 100 points his first 2 years.

I can see this he isn't physically mature and imposing size wise the way those three were at a young age. I can see him being more like a Patty Kane, but more talented and growing more as he plays more in the NHL.

 

[BackhandToeyJoey]

How many times do I have to keep saying this... I fully expect McDavid to be elite, 100% he will be a first line player that every team will want. What I'm saying is he will not be as good as Crosby, and will not be the best player in the NHL by his second season the same way players like Crosby, Malkin and Ovi.

I agree with you, McDavid will probably go through the same path as JT (If were lucky), or to a lesser extent, Galchenyuk or RNH in the first few years of his career. I can't see him scoring 50 goals or getting 90 points in his second year either.

 

[Loffer]

In terms of puck skills and speed, mcdavid is superior at the same age. Crosby's ability to find open ice was better and he was more balanced and much stronger, allowing him to win more battles down low and extend his time with the puck.

This should be factored in when comparing these two. McDavid is simply a superior skater and puck mover. He only falls short in the strength department and it will be fixed in due time. So, stop talking about the "who cares" stats and instead focus on those actually relevant facets of the game that really show McDavid's superior talent compared to Crosby. When this kid hits the NHL ice he will blow Crosby out of the water and straight to the hockey hall of fame in a friggin' wheelchair pushed by Malkin!

 

[scoutman1]

Adam Oates? Really? IMO McDavid is slightly above Tavares/Stamkos level but below Crosby level.

I was not comparing him to adam oates...really? you took it that way? read the sentence.....I was comparing a magastar to a superstar.......there is no way McDavid IMO is better than either Stamkos or Tavares.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

I was not comparing him to adam oates...really? you took it that way? read the sentence.....I was comparing a magastar to a superstar.......there is no way McDavid IMO is better than either Stamkos or Tavares.

What do you think his realistic offensive upside is at the NHL level? Point per game? More of a playmaker/shooter? Bunch of people seem to be saying McDavid is the best prospect since Crosby, you're like the first person I've seen here say otherwise.

 

[scoutman1]

What do you think his realistic offensive upside is at the NHL level? Point per game? More of a playmaker/shooter? Bunch of people seem to be saying McDavid is the best prospect since Crosby, you're like the first person I've seen here say otherwise.

I personally see him in the NHL being a 25 to 30 goal scorer and a 60 to 70 assist man in his prime...his hockey sense is great but still not up to Crosby's IQ....his goal scoring and shot at the moment is no where near crosby's shot (there is a lot of time to improve but to me McDavids shot is a bit of a draw back on him), playmaking wise i would have to say Crosby was still a better playmaker at the same age but McDavid is just a notch bellow him, speed wise I think McDavid is faster at the same age...McDavid has a great work ethic but he does not have that feisty play and never die attitude Crosby had and still has.

How many times have i heard the better than Crosby label now...most people from Ontario vowed Tavares was better than Crosby in all aspects of the game basically when he was coming up, Jason Spezza was suppose to be the best since Gretzky and Lemieux...McDavid looks to be as skilled as Tavares and Spezza in different ways but I think his impact in the future will be along the same lines, Crosby is special, McDavid still has to prove to me he is close to Crosby, he does not take over a game like Crosby and as good as his hockey sense is and people who say different have not seen Crosby play but McDavids hockey sense is NOT Crosby esq.

 

[Paxon]

This should be factored in when comparing these two. McDavid is simply a superior skater and puck mover. He only falls short in the strength department and it will be fixed in due time. So, stop talking about the "who cares" stats and instead focus on those actually relevant facets of the game that really show McDavid's superior talent compared to Crosby. When this kid hits the NHL ice he will blow Crosby out of the water and straight to the hockey hall of fame in a friggin' wheelchair pushed by Malkin!

He doesn't only fall short in strength. Crosby easily has better hockey IQ until shown otherwise (we won't be shown otherw ise). I'm far from a Crosby fan but you can't deny he has some of the best offensive IQ/vision that most of us have seen in our time.

[The rest of this is for the thread and not directed at you]
Comparing the two is silly really, because they're not remotely similar players. I'd say Tavares is more like Crosby (fantastic hockey sense) and McDavid is more like a MacKinnon or Stamkos (due to skating), though he doesn't have Stamkos' shot. McDavid will be a franchise center, beyond that what does anything matter? The whole "next one" thing is always tiresome in all sports.

I'm excited to see how his game develops when he becomes stronger and plays with NHL-caliber linemates at the next level. Hopefully it will be in a Sabres uniform. As to how his juniors career compares to Crosby's, don't even bother. Crosby's juniors career is a whole other level above his thus far. Doesn't necessarily mean much as to how they will compare as NHLers, but then why bother in the first place?

 

[CanaFan]

This should be factored in when comparing these two. McDavid is simply a superior skater and puck mover. He only falls short in the strength department and it will be fixed in due time. So, stop talking about the "who cares" stats and instead focus on those actually relevant facets of the game that really show McDavid's superior talent compared to Crosby. When this kid hits the NHL ice he will blow Crosby out of the water and straight to the hockey hall of fame in a friggin' wheelchair pushed by Malkin!

But IF McDavid is has such clearly superior skills to Crosby at the junior level, then why don't those skills translate into superior offensive totals than Crosby? Shouldn't higher production follow a massive skills gap as you are suggesting? But it's not there. Why? And if McDavids superior skills don't translate to Crosby-like production at the CHL level, why do you assume they will at the NHL level? It's fine to poo-poo stats but production is production and we are talking offense-first players here. I could talk all day about how Mason Raymond is a faster, more natural skater than Crosby yet who cares if it doesn't translate into production. You're making massive qualitative judgements about two player who played 10 years apart and stating definitively that one is far better than another. Demonstrate it! Tell us "how" McDavids skills are better and how you've made this determination given they don't play in the same league and are 10 years apart. If you can do that - and not just expect people to "take your word for it" - then maybe I'll join you in dismissing their junior stats.

 

[scoutman1]

But IF McDavid is has such clearly superior skills to Crosby at the junior level, then why don't those skills translate into superior offensive totals than Crosby? Shouldn't higher production follow a massive skills gap as you are suggesting? But it's not there. Why? And if McDavids superior skills don't translate to Crosby-like production at the CHL level, why do you assume they will at the NHL level? It's fine to poo-poo stats but production is production and we are talking offense-first players here. I could talk all day about how Mason Raymond is a faster, more natural skater than Crosby yet who cares if it doesn't translate into production. You're making massive qualitative judgements about two player who played 10 years apart and stating definitively that one is far better than another. Demonstrate it! Tell us "how" McDavids skills are better and how you've made this determination given they don't play in the same league and are 10 years apart. If you can do that - and not just expect people to "take your word for it" - then maybe I'll join you in dismissing their junior stats.

i do not think the guy you are replying to speaks serious, I think he is just trying to get a rise out of people, he is talking about HHOF career already and no serious person would say his skills blow by Crosby lol.

 

[Loffer]

i do not think the guy you are replying to speaks serious, I think he is just trying to get a rise out of people, he is talking about HHOF career already and no serious person would say his skills blow by Crosby lol.

I use humor to remind everyone that it's not a matter of life and death. Yet I think my point is valid. What McDavid needs to surpass Corsby is fixable: strength and shot.

As pointed out, McDavid is more like Stamkos (with Giruox esque skill) - so, this should ring some bells:

1) He surely will be better than Stamkos and Stamkos is already on Crosby's level; don't say he isn't if all you care are those friggin' stats. --> Thus, McDavid will be better than Crosby.

2) If McDavid isn't even remotely similar player as Crosby what's the point of comparing them, in the first place? Because the kid is so good. And will be better than Crosby: play wise and stats wise.

 

[daver]

I use humor to remind everyone that it's not a matter of life and death. Yet I think my point is valid. What McDavid needs to surpass Corsby is fixable: strength and shot.
As pointed out, McDavid is more like Stamkos (with Giruox esque skill) - so, this should ring some bells:

1) He surely will be better than Stamkos and Stamkos is already on Crosby's level; don't say he isn't if all you care are those friggin' stats. --> Thus, McDavid will be better than Crosby.

2) If McDavid isn't even remotely similar player as Crosby what's the point of comparing them, in the first place? Because the kid is so good. And will be better than Crosby: play wise and stats wise.

They may be close skill-wise but to be close to Crosby, let alone surpass him, he'll need to match his IQ and compete level.