Sportsnet: Burke says outscoring your opponent is "Beer League" really likes Campbell/Clifford trade.

[yubbers]

The 9-11 start and uninspired play which led to his firing.

Maybe...just maybe you should examine the other variable?

Like Dubas gutting our blue line? Babcock actually has success to lean on with this team pre Dubas. It got progressively worse since he took over. So could Dubas be the problem?:p

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Lou has given out some of the most terrible contracts......not sure why he is deemed a contract god. Marleau should be a lesson for all. He paid $6.25 per for 3 seasons on a guy coming off a 45 point season at the age of 37. In what world is that a better contract than Nylander or Matthews?

I don't think Lou was not behind Marleau at all. Eventually da story will come out. I personally think Babs convinced Shanny to do it. and Lou went along as da group of 3.

 

[kb]

isles have 3.1M open this year and 12.5M open next year

Barzal, Pulock, and Toews to sign, plus a backup goalie.

As it stands, 5 of the top 6 contracts are for players 29 and older, and most have at least 3 years remaining after this.

Plus Komarov for 2 more seasons in the press box.

It's an ugly situation. It's 100% on Lou, and 100% avoidable with even a room temp IQ, which Lou apparently doesn't possess.

And people pine for him, and think he would have done better on contracts than Dubas? Look at the Marleau contract.

Lou is only better if you don't look at reality.

 

[4thline]

isles have 3.1M open this year and 12.5M open next year

With that 12.5 they need:
A+ level backup - Varly is 31 and hasn't played more than 51 games in 5 years. Might go with Sorokin but even that will be ELC max + some schedule A's.

Barzal re-signed ~7ish (minimum on a bridge, more likely 9)
Pulock re-signed ~5 low end
Toews re-signed ~3 low end

16 mill on the low end against 12.5 space, with Pelech, Beauvillier and Cizikas up the next year.

 

[kb]

I don't think Lou was not behind Marleau at all. Eventually da story will come out. I personally think Babs convinced Shanny to do it. and Lou went along as da group of 3.

Then that's even worse that the coach has that kind of input to get the GM to overpay for a 40 point, declining, over the hill player....and no one had the balls to say no to him.

Dysfunctional times if so.

 

[ottomaddox]

Agreed but he painted himself into a corner that he can't get out of in the short term. He is responsible for where the team is today and he will tell you so. IMO he needs something to go his way to turn this around. Matty, Mitch and Willie becoming 100 point players would do it

100 point players? How about M, M, and Nye help push this team into a playoff series win. I could care less about individual trophies or fantasy hockey stats.

 

[yubbers]

Then that's even worse that the coach has that kind of input to get the GM to overpay for a 40 point, declining, over the hill player....and no one had the balls to say no to him.

Dysfunctional times if so.

Shanny is doing a great job at staying teflony. Thinking Dubas and Babs had ANY chance of working well together should be enough to get canned. Stupidity. But he gets an extension for mixing oil and water. Only the Leafs...you almost have to be impressed with how consistently they f*** things up.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Then that's even worse that the coach has that kind of input to get the GM to overpay for a 40 point, declining, over the hill player....and no one had the balls to say no to him.

Dysfunctional times if so.

Even worse why da hell did the MLSE BOD sign up Babs. That was worst mistake of all time. It put Shanny in a real bad spot. MLSE is to blame too. As soon as Babs said he would have only come to Toronto late in his career that says it all. Babs had far too much control of da team from every aspect.

 

[ACC1224]

Funny how these things always come down to Lou vs Dubas.

 

[Al14]

Shanny is doing a great job at staying teflony. Thinking Dubas and Babs had ANY chance of working well together should be enough to get canned. Stupidity. But he gets an extension for mixing oil and water. Only the Leafs...you almost have to be impressed with how consistently they f*** things up.

:puts on tin foil hat:

I sometimes wonder if Shanahan is an NHL plant to keep the Leafs from really becoming a serious contender. Just maybe Burke was an NHL plant too!

:takes off tin foil hat:

 

[ToneDog]

100 point players? How about M, M, and Nye help push this team into a playoff series win. I could care less about individual trophies or fantasy hockey stats.

They will need to be 100 point players to get us a playoff series win. The 3rd and 4th lines have proven they cannot be leaned on to get it done when the top 2 lines are shut down.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Barzal, Pulock, and Toews to sign, plus a backup goalie.

As it stands, 5 of the top 6 contracts are for players 29 and older, and most have at least 3 years remaining after this.

Plus Komarov for 2 more seasons in the press box.

It's an ugly situation.

No, no! Lou is a genius and a master negotiator

 

[yubbers]

Funny how these things always come down to Lou vs Dubas.

Well it is who he replaced. Realistically it should be what would the team look like if Hunter got the job. But they should've held onto Lou for 1 more year. They decided to let the greenest GM ever handle the most important contracts this city has seen in a decade. It didn't work out well surprisingly.

 

[ToneDog]

Well it is who he replaced. Realistically it should be what would the team look like if Hunter got the job. But they should've held onto Lou for 1 more year. They decided to let the greenest GM ever handle the most important contracts this city has seen in a decade. It didn't work out well surprisingly.

It is OK to overpay your stars who have won, exactly nothing to date. Like it or not, getting bent over the table 3 out of 3 times by the greedy 3 is a failure. What kills me is all the while Shanny sits on the sidelines and does nothing.

 

[Its not your fault]

That's fair. But man....he just doesn't learn. Waving Big Mac hurt us for 2 years. Imagine having your backup booted from the room a week out the playoffs......Bled points this year. Doesn't insulate Kadri AGAIN (Babs also at fault for this sitting Martin) and Boston takes advantage again. Which makes Dubas pulls the trigger on a trade we never needed. Lets Hainsey walk to accommodate the Kadri trade salaries and decides he'll replace a successful top pairing veteran with Cody f***ing Ceci.

I'm sorry....but all that tells me he doesn't have a clue. Every move he makes is a disaster from the minute it happens. Just so predictably bad.

1 year this last year we could afford him to that 2 year 1.5 average he got.

 

[ottomaddox]

Funny how these things always come down to Lou vs Dubas.

Lou has nothing to prove as well. His career as a GM is as good as any.

And Dubas...

 

[Menzinger]

It is OK to overpay your stars who have won, exactly nothing to date. Like it or not, getting bent over the table 3 out of 3 times by the greedy 3 is a failure. What kills me is all the while Shanny sits on the sidelines and does nothing.

I think its fair to have issue with the contracts, but what's done is done, so im not sure whats to be done at this point in terms of Shanahan. Better to focus on making things work with what you have.

Trading away Marner or Tavares so you can sign a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier depth guys to 3-4 million contracts isnt going to make things better either

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Well it is who he replaced. Realistically it should be what would the team look like if Hunter got the job. But they should've held onto Lou for 1 more year. They decided to let the greenest GM ever handle the most important contracts this city has seen in a decade. It didn't work out well surprisingly.

Lou would have done amazing on the Matthews/Marner/Nylander contracts and saved us at least 5 mill.

He then would've turned around and overpaid the shit out of Komarov, Gardiner, Hainsey, Martin by at least 7 mill.

 

[yubbers]

Lou would have done amazing on the Matthews/Marner/Nylander contracts and saved us at least 5 mill.

He then would've turned around and overpaid the shit out of Komarov, Gardiner, Hainsey, Martin by at least 7 mill.

Just one is reality and the other imagination Could've used Hainsey this year. Very affordable 1 year deal. Barrie was more important to Kyle. lirl.

 

[The CyNick]

Barzal, Pulock, and Toews to sign, plus a backup goalie.

As it stands, 5 of the top 6 contracts are for players 29 and older, and most have at least 3 years remaining after this.

Plus Komarov for 2 more seasons in the press box.

It's an ugly situation.

And yet, better than us this year and a deeper playoff run last year.

 

[Kiwi]

I think its fair to have issue with the co tracts, what's done is done, so im not sure whats to be done at this point in temrs of Shanahan. Better to focus on making things work with ehat you have.

Trading away Marner or Tavares so you can sign a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier depth guys to 3-4 million contracts isnt going to make things better either

Yep, I wasn't a fan of those RFA contracts but its done and we have a very good core to build around

Keep the core and add talent to it, if you need to divisify our play style a bit (add some physicality, defensive awarness) do it but keep the difference makers we already have and look for cheap unappreciated talent in other areas, then keep the talent coming from the usual places

Give this team and Managment a chance, if it doesn't work you can fire them later but we're to far down this road to bail out now

 

[The CyNick]

I agree he is a rookie on contracts no doubt. And he made lots of rookie mistakes. But team point totals mean very little with respect to playoff performance. It is more important to build a team that can compete for a Cup. Now we can all discuss/disagree about what it takes to win a Cup that is the great debate in hockey everywhere. I happen to think you need balance on a team. and I see Dubie changing his team balance this year. I could be very wrong but I think Dubie by getting Muzzy, Clifford and Campbell he is starting to get it. I really think we are 2 more Muzzy vet types away on defense and a 3rd line centre who can PK and forecheck and another sizeable fast winger who can open up da ice. and I think those needs can be picked up with assets we have currently. Guys like Sissons and Hamonic could really help out. But there are others. Folks we can still get this done and with skill we have we are closer than we ever have been since 93.

But then why move off a GM who already had a healthy balance of grit and skill and replace him with a guy who had a vision of smurfs in every position? You're basically saying Shanny made a huge mistake going with Dubas' vision and is now trying to fix the mistakes he's made over the past two seasons.

Clifford is just a guy. Not really a difference maker. Not sure what Campbell has to go with anything. Dubas burned tons of assets trying to do what Lou managed to do properly in one offseason with the Isles in net. Dubas seems to have finally found the nut to his blind squirrel.

As for Muzzin, he'd be a good number 4. Unfortunately with our cap structure he's locked in as our number two for a long time. That's not good. And we can't afford another two Muzzins. At best we have to hope the smurfs coming up turn into solid D men. The problem is none of them look like good shutdown D, which is what this team needs. They honestly need a few younger Roman Polaks. But this GM won't see value in guys like that.

We're doomed until Shanny is fired.

 

[4thline]

And yet, better than us this year and a deeper playoff run last year.

They won one more game in the 1st round then got swept last year, and were both propped up by the shootout and in a tailspin this year, while being in a worse cap spot long term.

 

[kb]

Maybe...just maybe you should examine the other variable?

Like Dubas gutting our blue line? Babcock actually has success to lean on with this team pre Dubas. It got progressively worse since he took over. So could Dubas be the problem?:p

No likes on this.

weird.

 

[Menzinger]

They won one more game in the 1st round then got swept last year, and were both propped up by the shootout and in a tailspin this year, while being in a worse cap spot long term.

The Isles are a funny comparison for the Leafs. A team with questionable underlying numbers that got propped up by unsustainably hot goaltending, and then began to go south when goaltending couldnt keep up.

Leafs have great underlying numbers and got constrained by awful goaltending.

So I dont know why the Isles should be viewed as this modle to envy....