Pre-Game Talk: Buffalo Sabres @ Toronto Maple Leafs | TUESDAY @ 730pm | SNO | Jack vs Auston

[Pi]

Every team that took a step forward and fell two back had horrible possession numbers and did it mostly on the back of a goaltender playing well or some very good luck (Colorado, Calgary etc).

IIRC, before the outdoor game, Leafs were at 53% possession when Hunlak aren't on the ice. They as a pair are 47% and as a team we were just about 51%. That's not great but it's above average for a young team.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Credit should be given to our vets too, who have started to look better as of late. The Hunlak pairing hasn't been as bad as it was earlier in the year. Kadri it's still having a good season and he and Nylander are starting to develop chemistry. Komarov hasn't looked as terrible as he has been as of late. Bozak and JVR are doing their jobs, still a bit weak defensively but they're scoring and helping the team win. Martin on the fourth line has been playing great in his role, but that line really started clicking when Gauthier joined it (another rookie of course). Andersen needs no explanation.

Leafs are firing on all cylinders right now. Hopefully they can keep it going.

 

[Jeypic]

I agree with rick. New management took over a team full of players like nylander, Reilly, kadri, gauthier... a bunch of 1st round draft picks that our management had nothing to do with. But were acquired because we sucked. They are doing the rebuild the right way now, but we give them a little too much credit in that respect.

I guess if you don't announce the tank.. you can let it warm up for 50 years before you start it ey?

And then we got someone telling him he cant be "policing" leaf fans... kinda coming across like a hypocrite.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I agree with rick. New management took over a team full of players like nylander, Reilly, kadri, gauthier... a bunch of 1st round draft picks that our management had nothing to do with. But were acquired because we sucked. They are doing the rebuild the right way now, but we give them a little too much credit in that respect.

I guess if you don't announce the tank.. you can let it warm up for 50 years before you start it ey?

And then we got someone telling him he cant be "policing" leaf fans... kinda coming across like a hypocrite.

Nylander was a Shanahan pick, but people should give credit to the few good things Burke and Nonis did. Rielly was a good pick, and the JVR trade was allegedly all Nonis. Credit for Kadri's development into the player he is today should be mostly going to Babs and the work he's done with him. I like Gauthier but there were better players to pick in that spot. Though Goat will be a key contributor in our centre core in the future, hell he's a key component now.

Also with regards to the rebuild debate, it depends on how one defines a rebuild. Personally, that crap the Leafs pulled in the waning Sundin years was not a rebuild, and neither was Burkes quick fix retool with the Kessel trade. But it'll all be relative.

 

[Pi]

You can think that but You could probably have enough fingers to count how many times the Leafs were legit contenders over the course of those 50 years.

And if you are not contending, then you are building to contend.

So I don't think it's stupid to say at all. We've just gone through vast phases of rebuilds. Be it Stelleck, Fletchers, Ferguson Dryden's Quinns, or Burke. Now we have Shanahan and Lou which has reset us from Burke, who reset us from Ferguson who reset us from...well you get the picture.

So again., how is it "pretty stupid"?

Probably because the people in the past have nothing to do with this team? All they have in common is that they work for the Leafs. That's it. Was Shanahan even born in 1967?

 

[1specter]

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing any threads regarding any other young talent at all on the main boards. Just us and Winnipeg. Not seeing CBJ promoting their defense man (and they have a right too) or Pittsburgh and their rookie goalie...or anyone else for that matter. Just us and Winnipeg and it screams "please look at me" TBH.

Ok, no offense but you might need to get your eyes checked. I've lurked this board for quite some time (since the late 2000s) and have seen tons of threads in yesteryear about guys like Tyler Myers, Jacob Trouba, Hampus Lindholm, Provorov this year (and Philly's young D prospect pool), Slavin and the other young Carolina d-men, etc etc.

I'm all for humility but let's not pretend there aren't double standards.

 

[ACC1224]

Is it ok to post about the upcoming game in here?

We should expect the same lineup as Saturday?

 

[Rick74*]

Probably because the people in the past have nothing to do with this team? All they have in common is that they work for the Leafs. That's it. Was Shanahan even born in 1967?

No but the Leafs were the same organization then as they are now. They are the ones in rebuild and they just hire different people to take over the job.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Is it ok to post about the upcoming game in here?

We should expect the same lineup as Saturday?

I would think it'd be the same lineup as Saturday. I think Andersen is back, and possibly Corrodo subbing in for Carrick maybe?

 

[1specter]

Is it ok to post about the upcoming game in here?

We should expect the same lineup as Saturday?

andersen will be starting but otherwise yes.

I would think it'd be the same lineup as Saturday. I think Andersen is back, and possibly Corrodo subbing in for Carrick maybe?

doubtful, Babcock doesn't really mess with winning line-ups.

 

[ACC1224]

I would think it'd be the same lineup as Saturday. I think Andersen is back, and possibly Corrodo subbing in for Carrick maybe?

That would be a shock, IMO.

Be great if they could take at least 2 of 3 this week.

 

[Mattavarner]

Hoping for another 2 points tomorrow, Buffalo is beatable and coming off of a back to back

 

[Pi]

No but the Leafs were the same organization then as they are now. They are the ones in rebuild and they just hire different people to take over the job.

Not really. Nobody before Shanahan was allowed to rebuild. Burke had that opportunity and he blew it by trading for Kessel and being impatient and wanting a retool. Before that, no one had the power to rebuild or we never had the need to rebuild.

This is our very first tear down rebuild.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

If we want a shot at the playoffs, winning divisional games is HUGE, buffalo is a must win IMO.

 

[Cor]

Is it ok to post about the upcoming game in here?

We should expect the same lineup as Saturday?

No, this is a misc thread for everything but the upcoming game.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Not really. Nobody before Shanahan was allowed to rebuild. Burke had that opportunity and he blew it. Before that, no one had the power to rebuild or we never had the need to rebuild.

This is our very first tear down rebuild.

Not sure where your getting this but Burke was NEVER allowed to rebuild, he was still under the regime of the teachers pension who were always against rebuids.

Agreed on the 2nd point.

 

[ACC1224]

Hoping for another 2 points tomorrow, Buffalo is beatable and coming off of a back to back

If we want a shot at the playoffs, winning divisional games is HUGE, buffalo is a must win IMO.

Yep, I expect a win here and Saturday with the Rangers taking Thursdays game.

 

[Walshy7]

all this started because I said the sabres are a joke of an organization and what I meant by that was Tim Murray and co, I really hated the way they have gone about their rebuild nothing about sabres of yester year because quite frankly I don't care about any other team's history. It turned into someone telling me to check my attitude? I didn't say anything about the leafs being better or anything like that, so it smacks of faux internet outrage but anyway.

Tim Murray is a whiny tool who pretty much said Eichel was nothing compared to Mcdavid I wouldn't be surprised if Eichel held resentment towards them for it and I wouldn't blame him either. A lot of NHL vets disliked what they were doing also

 

[slozo]

That's what is most exciting. These guys aren't putting up garbage points in garbage time. Our rookies are the reason we win on most nights.

Right?!?

That's the part that is unprecedented for me . . . because the logical extension (and this has played out countless times in the NHL and most other team sports) of having a lot of rookies in the lineup is that they are on a rebuilding team at best; a garbage bottom feeder at worst. And even with the optimism of rebuilding with Matthews and Marner and also having Nylander and getting Zaitsev . . . we all predicted lots of hiccups, poor defence, with the occasional burst of something to look forward to.

And it's gone way above those expectations.

These kids are actually learning how to win before our eyes . . . and a huge part of it is the B rookie cast of Hyman, Brown and Zaitsev. And both Hyman and Brown sepcifically are on a big upward learning curve, both getting better and better as the season progresses.

Very exciting stuff. And finally nice to see a true Toronto boy who really seizes his opportunity and is pushing hard for bigger and better things. I almost want to say that Brown has been the biggest surprise this year, slightly ahead of Hyman. Way better than many thought he would be, especially in his first season (ok, half season so far).

 

[Jeypic]

Nylander was a Shanahan pick, but people should give credit to the few good things Burke and Nonis did. Rielly was a good pick, and the JVR trade was allegedly all Nonis. Credit for Kadri's development into the player he is today should be mostly going to Babs and the work he's done with him. I like Gauthier but there were better players to pick in that spot. Though Goat will be a key contributor in our centre core in the future, hell he's a key component now.

Also with regards to the rebuild debate, it depends on how one defines a rebuild. Personally, that crap the Leafs pulled in the waning Sundin years was not a rebuild, and neither was Burkes quick fix retool with the Kessel trade. But it'll all be relative.

So you don't think Burke was trying to rebuild this team when he acquired Kessel. That was only a "retooling" my mistake.

Shanahan may have been here for the nylander pick, but so was the gm he fired along with all the scouts he fired. I'm not sure you can give him all the credit as he had just been given the job.

 

[Rick74*]

Not really. Nobody before Shanahan was allowed to rebuild. Burke had that opportunity and he blew it by trading for Kessel and being impatient and wanting a retool. Before that, no one had the power to rebuild or we never had the need to rebuild.

This is our very first tear down rebuild.

Ok either you are suggesting that the Leafs were legit contenders not requiring a rebuild...or you are giving the Toronto Maple Leaf organization a pass at not allowing a rebuild?

???

Either way, we sucked and should have rebuild and whatever reason or excuse you wanna give they didn't. You can't excuse the Maple Leaf organization, regardless of who was in charge.

It's black or white. Either you are a contender or you are building to contend. The Leafs have been perpetually building to contend since 67. They had some brief periods in the early to late 90's where they were legit contenders for the cup...but aside from that they were in perpetual rebuild.

It doesn't matter who was in charge of the rebuild or what permission they had to get the job done. Both of those things are the responsibility of Leaf organization and as such I can fault them for the failure.

Detroit had multiple GM's and coaches in their 25 year play off run. And were legit contenders for at least a dozen of those runs. That's because Detroit was better run from the top down.

 

[1specter]

So you don't think Burke was trying to rebuild this team when he acquired Kessel. That was only a "retooling" my mistake.

Shanahan may have been here for the nylander pick, but so was the gm he fired along with all the scouts he fired. I'm not sure you can give him all the credit as he had just been given the job.

Shanahan exclusively met with Michael Nylander and William Nylander as well as probed lots of colleagues of theirs and hockey professionals in Sweden to look into William's background and personality/work ethic.

Shanahan definitely had his hands all over that pick.

 

[Budsfan]

 

[slozo]

Ok either you are suggesting that the Leafs were legit contenders not requiring a rebuild...or you are giving the Toronto Maple Leaf organization a pass at not allowing a rebuild?

???

Either way, we sucked and should have rebuild and whatever reason or excuse you wanna give they didn't. You can't excuse the Maple Leaf organization, regardless of who was in charge.

It's black or white. Either you are a contender or you are building to contend. The Leafs have been perpetually building to contend since 67. They had some brief periods in the early to late 90's where they were legit contenders for the cup...but aside from that they were in perpetual rebuild.

It doesn't matter who was in charge of the rebuild or what permission they had to get the job done. Both of those things are the responsibility of Leaf organization and as such I can fault them for the failure.

Detroit had multiple GM's and coaches in their 25 year play off run. And were legit contenders for at least a dozen of those runs. That's because Detroit was better run from the top down.

He's not suggesting anything, and he's not giving the MLS a pass . . . what an idiotic thing to say.
He's simply stating an opinion which I think is a generally accepted fact myself as well:

Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Not really. Nobody before Shanahan was allowed to rebuild. Burke had that opportunity and he blew it by trading for Kessel and being impatient and wanting a retool. Before that, no one had the power to rebuild or we never had the need to rebuild.

This is our very first tear down rebuild.

I agree that in the MODERN era (Ballard onward), this was our first actual, real tear-down and rebuild. Not one mitigated with needing a star face, a competitive team, or a playoff berth possibility.

What's so hard to understand about that?
And hey, try this on for size . . . if you disagree, give us a reason with an example!

 

[The Examiner]

From what I gather, people hate on Leaf fans on these boards because we chime in on every conversation that had nothing to do with the Leafs and talk about the Leafs.

That could get annoying to anyone not a Leaf fan.

And now that we FINALLY have Matthews who seems to be on route to being a top 5 center...the likes of which we haven't seen since Sundin/Gilmore...we are jamming it down the board's throats.

Hey did you see the pass Matthews made? Let's make 7 threads about it!

Hey let's do a poll that compares either Marner or Matthews to every other elite player in the league! That doesn't sound like that could get annoying fast, huh?

Look over at Pittsburgh. They have the best hockey player this generation. I don't see them making half a dozen threads over every great play he makes game in game out Maybe they are used to having a generational player? Or maybe they just don't feel the need to over expose Crosby to the rest of us to the point we end up despising him? Why doesn't Chicago make a dozen threads about Kane? Or any other team promoting their stellar players for that matter?

The only teams that do it are those with an inferiority complex as that's what doing it screams. (Winnipeg and Toronto to be more specific)

I feel that after 50 years of absolute misery should have taught us a bit of restraint and sympathy for those teams going through what we have had to endure.

So what Buffalo is going through right now? Yeah, we did it multiple times in the 80's and to make it worse, we always traded away our first round pick so we got nothing for failed season.

Remember that next time ya wanna gloat.

Fans being excited because they have 2 of the best young, exciting players in the league, is not gloating. There is nothing wrong with it especially since this team has had nothing to be excited about since the lockout.

There is exactly 1 Matthews thread and 1 Marner thread on the main boards so I don't what you are having a hissy fit over. Those threads are warranted.

In regards to your moan about Leaf fans "chiming" in on every thread, that's going to happen when you have one if the biggest fan bases in the league. In fact, I notice it's other fans bringing up the Leafs and Leaf fans "chiming" in to somewhat defend themselves.

This is a hockey board and people are free to talk about what and who they want. There are always going to be those that are a bit over the top and ridiculous but the majority of people are level headed and just want to discuss their team's best players. This team has exceeded expectations so far and people are excited.

I think the main issue is that you don't want to look "stupid" on the main board when this team inevitably goes into a slump. Don't worry, it's just a message board and your identity should not be bonded to it. Get over yourself.