Pre-Game Talk: Buffalo Sabres @ Toronto Maple Leafs | TUESDAY @ 730pm | SNO | Jack vs Auston

[Pi]

Frankly you need to get really lucky in the draft and be really good at developing players. Lots of fist round picks never reach potential.

Only luck we have had is winning Matthews lottery. If we don't have Matthews we don't look nearly as good for sure but we also made smart decisions to draft Nylander and Marner. If Marner was gone we were looking at drafting Werenski IIRC. If Nylander was gone we were looking at Larkin/Ehlers.

Our drafting has been great at the top 10. No boneheaded mistakes like Virtanen or Zacha.

Check your attitude at the door fella.

We haven't even made the stanley cup finals since 67. So technically we've been rebuilding since 67.

Just remember that before ya go judging other teams...

I didn't realize we have had the same management since 67. If we have the same management, you are correct. If not, you are wrong. Did the Cubs rebuild for a 100 years or did it begin when Epstein was hired?

 

[Super Mega]

Check your attitude at the door fella.

We haven't even made the stanley cup finals since 67. So technically we've been rebuilding since 67.

Just remember that before ya go judging other teams...

we have not technically been rebuilding since 67, technically the only rebuild that has happened since 67 is the one that just started with shanny and co

also people unanimously call most of this organizations previous years trash too, so not sure what you are getting at

 

[Walshy7]

Check your attitude at the door fella.

We haven't even made the stanley cup finals since 67. So technically we've been rebuilding since 67.

Just remember that before ya go judging other teams...

You can do whatever you like with your attitude. I don't like how Sabres management (tim murray in particular) went about their rebuild, specifically complaining about how the fans deserved McDavid almost crying. And trading anything that moved to ensure their last place including a good goalie.

If a Stanley cup final appearance is a sign of being in a rebuild that's a lot of rebuilding teams who are pretty good St Louis (since 1970) I would say is a very good team that is rebuilding by your definition. I do get the point of what you where saying that the ultimate goal is Stanley cups but appearances don't mean much wins are what would count in your scenario which puts a lot of teams in the "rebuilding boat" the leafs are in

 

[Johny Drama]

I'm surprised at how bad Buffalo is. Their roster on paper looks pretty good but they just can't seem to put it together. They've had a ton of injuries though so that's certainly a factor, but their underlying numbers are still really bad. I guess Bylsma is not working out too well... It's weird though because in the last meeting with them they dominated the Leafs and I was super impressed with how heavy they seemed to play. Totally thought they were on the upswing.

They seemed to be going in the right direction but that Evander Kane trade was pretty horrendous. They looked good on paper in the off-season but thing haven't progressed like I thought for that team.

 

[Johny Drama]

Reinhart and Eichel were both the second best player in their draft by many analysts. They were just unlucky that they lost the lottery twice, and the best coach available at that time. Can you imagine Risto, Eichel and Reinhart with Babcock? We should thank the stars we end up winning the lottery, getting Matthews and Babcock.

Or how about McDavid and Ekblad with Babcock?

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Yea, I don't understand the point of tanking for 2+ years and then trying to accelerate your rebuild with trades. It's like they only half-committed to the process which will just end up prolonging things in the end.

Ok you do realize you can't draft last every year, nor can you rely soley on drafts to be successful either. A proper rebuild involves relying on drafting, making trades, free agent signings. Eventually even the Leafs will have to make trades (I know people don't want to hear this), and yes sign UFA's to more then a 1-2 year deal, rebuilds are complex and involve multiple methods to be effective.

 

[67Cup]

The scary thing about Buffalo is not this particular game. It's that they improved significantly last season, as we have this year, and have fallen back this year. I sure don't want to be in their shoes next year! (I actually don't think we will but it's far from impossible.)

That's the reason, I won't crow, not something to do with 1967.

 

[1specter]

The scary thing about Buffalo is not this particular game. It's that they improved significantly last season, as we have this year, and have fallen back this year. I sure don't want to be in their shoes next year! (I actually don't think we will but it's far from impossible.)

That's the reason, I won't crow, not something to do with 1967.

They did improve last year but their underlying numbers were still poor, 24th in the league in 5v5 score/zone/venue adjusted CF%. They are a bad possession team once again this year and have also had a multitude of injuries.

I see people mention a lot of examples of young teams that have done poorly or had a good season and regressed, but it's not the same because the underlying numbers show that these teams got lucky and rode unsustainable shooting percentages and hot goaltending/special teams. The Leafs on the other hand have excellent underlying numbers, indicative of top tier coaching and systems, in addition to having good goaltending and special teams, a recipe for success.

 

[Rick74*]

that's not how it works. why do you keep trying to act like a police officer and telling people how to act or think? i've seen you do this on the main board as well. maybe you should check your attitude instead

Because Leaf fans should be pretty freaking humble at this point considering this team has had the worst possible ownership history since the Ballard era. And has reinvented new and dramatically depressing ways to lose since then.

As such we are in NO POSITION to laugh at other teams like "we know better"...Well I guess you COULD do it, but you look the fool in the end as you can't rewrite history.

We've sucked badly for the past 50 years. And in that time frame I think every team in this league has at least made the finals or won the cup since then. Be grateful things may finally be looking up for once...but don't be arrogant like our master plan was to burn through 50 years to get to this point...lol.

So yeah...check your attitude. Or don't and come across as one of those annoying Leaf fans who have goldfish memories. My only issue is that when you come across as the fool, you bring the rest of us Leaf fans down with ya.

 

[Rick74*]

The scary thing about Buffalo is not this particular game. It's that they improved significantly last season, as we have this year, and have fallen back this year. I sure don't want to be in their shoes next year! (I actually don't think we will but it's far from impossible.)

That's the reason, I won't crow, not something to do with 1967.

Well that's also a great reason not to crow.

Cautiously optimistic is exactly how we should all feel.

 

[1specter]

Because Leaf fans should be pretty freaking humble at this point considering this team has had the worst possible ownership history since the Ballard era. And has reinvented new and dramatically depressing ways to lose since then.

As such we are in NO POSITION to laugh at other teams like "we know better"...Well I guess you COULD do it, but you look the fool in the end as you can't rewrite history.

We've sucked badly for the past 50 years. And in that time frame I think every team in this league has at least made the finals or won the cup since then. Be grateful things may finally be looking up for once...but don't be arrogant like our master plan was to burn through 50 years to get to this point...lol.

So yeah...check your attitude. Or don't and come across as one of those annoying Leaf fans who have goldfish memories. My only issue is that when you come across as the fool, you bring the rest of us Leaf fans down with ya.

If people want to enjoy the team doing well, then I say that's fine. I don't really like it either when fans get obnoxious with their gloating, but Leaf fans on this website get treated like dirt, sometimes deserved but often unwarranted and ridiculous bias from other fans, so seeing some pushback is unsurprising to me. There is good reason to believe that this team is actually good, unlike the false hope of the Carlyle era.

 

[al secord]

We've truly done nothing that would suggest we could trash other team's rebuilds and development.

It's ok to be optimistic, but we've literally done nothing to put ourselves up on a soap box looking down at other teams.

We've made the playoffs once in 10 years and were dead last a year ago.

 

[Rick74*]

If people want to enjoy the team doing well, then I say that's fine. I don't really like it either when fans get obnoxious with their gloating, but Leaf fans on this website get treated like dirt, sometimes deserved but often unwarranted and ridiculous bias from other fans, so seeing some pushback is unsurprising to me. There is good reason to believe that this team is actually good, unlike the false hope of the Carlyle era.

From what I gather, people hate on Leaf fans on these boards because we chime in on every conversation that had nothing to do with the Leafs and talk about the Leafs.

That could get annoying to anyone not a Leaf fan.

And now that we FINALLY have Matthews who seems to be on route to being a top 5 center...the likes of which we haven't seen since Sundin/Gilmore...we are jamming it down the board's throats.

Hey did you see the pass Matthews made? Let's make 7 threads about it!

Hey let's do a poll that compares either Marner or Matthews to every other elite player in the league! That doesn't sound like that could get annoying fast, huh?

Look over at Pittsburgh. They have the best hockey player this generation. I don't see them making half a dozen threads over every great play he makes game in game out Maybe they are used to having a generational player? Or maybe they just don't feel the need to over expose Crosby to the rest of us to the point we end up despising him? Why doesn't Chicago make a dozen threads about Kane? Or any other team promoting their stellar players for that matter?

The only teams that do it are those with an inferiority complex as that's what doing it screams. (Winnipeg and Toronto to be more specific)

I feel that after 50 years of absolute misery should have taught us a bit of restraint and sympathy for those teams going through what we have had to endure.

So what Buffalo is going through right now? Yeah, we did it multiple times in the 80's and to make it worse, we always traded away our first round pick so we got nothing for failed season.

Remember that next time ya wanna gloat.

 

[Budsfan]

 

[Budsfan]

 

[Rick74*]

I would wager that more than half of those polls are actually made by non-Leaf fans. Plenty of times a non-leaf fan will start a thread about the Leafs or start a poll and then people think it's Leaf fans doing it. There was a thread comparing the Leafs to the 07-08 Blackhawks made by a BLACKHAWKS FAN, yet people still got salty.

To your point about threads being made about other good players, I don't think you've paid close attention. Crosby and Kane are both veterans who have been around for a long time, them being good is nothing new. But when they were rookies/young, lots of threads were made about them. Plenty of other young players get tons of threads made about them, and nobody ever complains. It only seems to be an issue when it's a young Leafs player.

The poor treatment goes both ways. For example, in a thread on the main board a guy was complaining about Leaf fans inside the thread (Red Wings fan). Another guy (Bruins fan) made a post saying how the Leafs still needed a goalie and had no defense. I replied saying that Andersen has been second in sv% since November 1st, and the Red Wings fan then quoted me saying "Yeah let's just give him the Vezina!". Stuff like that happens all the time.

We certainly have some annoying fans, but you are placing far too much blame on Leaf fans. People just want to enjoy their team, let them. It's not up to you to police them.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing any threads regarding any other young talent at all on the main boards. Just us and Winnipeg. Not seeing CBJ promoting their defense man (and they have a right too) or Pittsburgh and their rookie goalie...or anyone else for that matter. Just us and Winnipeg and it screams "please look at me" TBH.

Now let's take a look at the guy I was responding too in this thread for example...gloating on Buffalo's current hardship.

It's very easy to remind said poster that not only did the Leafs suck the bag well behind expectations MULTIPLE times over the course of these past 50 years, but we would have already traded the first round pick making finishing dead last as a gift to whatever team we traded our pick too.

So it's really...REALLY easy to have someone slam our many failings down our throats.

We've sucked worse than what Buffalo's going through right now. And you don't have to go back very far to bring up an example.

 

[7even]

Check your attitude at the door fella.

We haven't even made the stanley cup finals since 67. So technically we've been rebuilding since 67.

Just remember that before ya go judging other teams...

I agree, humility is always better. But the bolded is pretty stupid lol.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I would wager that more than half of those polls are actually made by non-Leaf fans. Plenty of times a non-leaf fan will start a thread about the Leafs or start a poll and then people think it's Leaf fans doing it. There was a thread comparing the Leafs to the 07-08 Blackhawks made by a BLACKHAWKS FAN, yet people still got salty.

To your point about threads being made about other good players, I don't think you've paid close attention. Crosby and Kane are both veterans who have been around for a long time, them being good is nothing new. But when they were rookies/young, lots of threads were made about them. Plenty of other young players get tons of threads made about them, and nobody ever complains. It only seems to be an issue when it's a young Leafs player.

The poor treatment goes both ways. For example, in a thread on the main board a guy was complaining about Leaf fans inside the thread (Red Wings fan). Another guy (Bruins fan) made a post saying how the Leafs still needed a goalie and had no defense. I replied saying that Andersen has been second in sv% since November 1st, and the Red Wings fan then quoted me saying "Yeah let's just give him the Vezina!". Stuff like that happens all the time.

We certainly have some annoying fans, but you are placing far too much blame on Leaf fans. People just want to enjoy their team, let them. It's not up to you to police them.

Yeah this happens a lot. Another one was that "will the Leafs make the playoffs thread" was started by a Jets fan. I suspect it was in response to Matthews passing Laine in goals and points so he made a thread for people to dump on the Leafs, which only semi-happened.


Also if that one guy didn't want the Leafs mentioned in the Hurricanes thread then he shouldn't have put Toronto in the title. Simple.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Personally.. who cares what anyone else thinks of us. It's been a long time comming and I'm going to gloat the milk right outta this cow.. and you know what. You can't stop me... you also know what.. it feels good man.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Personally.. who cares what anyone else thinks of us. It's been a long time comming and I'm going to gloat the milk right outta this cow.. and you know what. You can't stop me... you also know what.. it feels good man.

Oye... I'm a leafs fan but really while we've gotten some elite pieces in the past 3 years, we have only made the playoffs ONCE in the past 12 years, chew on that for a 2nd. Don't get me wrong great times are right around the corner, and I too will enjoy them, but I won't gloat much... well I take that back I will to any habs fan

 

[slozo]

Buffalo is always tough, but in our barn, like our chances.
Excited to see Eichel vs Matthews for sure. But Magic Mitch could easily steal the limelight . . . he's been such a beauty with his Gilmour-like sense of passing and tenacity. I really see him as our future 2nd line centre.

BTW, has there ever been a team in the history of the modern day NHL that has had 4 of the top ten rookie scorers in the league (Connor Brown is in there at #10 now), and three of the top 4?!? It's literally insane . . . and to have that on a competitive team in the playoffs/on the bubble is truly remarkable. Unprecedented, I'd say.

Hopefully our young guns smell blood early and pounce on these guys.

 

[Deebo]

I feel that after 50 years of absolute misery should have taught us a bit of restraint and sympathy for those teams going through what we have had to endure.

Very few have had sympathy for us for the last decade.

 

[Pi]

Buffalo is always tough, but in our barn, like our chances.
Excited to see Eichel vs Matthews for sure. But Magic Mitch could easily steal the limelight . . . he's been such a beauty with his Gilmour-like sense of passing and tenacity. I really see him as our future 2nd line centre.

BTW, has there ever been a team in the history of the modern day NHL that has had 4 of the top ten rookie scorers in the league (Connor Brown is in there at #10 now), and three of the top 4?!? It's literally insane . . . and to have that on a competitive team in the playoffs/on the bubble is truly remarkable. Unprecedented, I'd say.

Hopefully our young guns smell blood early and pounce on these guys.

That's what is most exciting. These guys aren't putting up garbage points in garbage time. Our rookies are the reason we win on most nights.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bragging and gloating never looks good on anyone, the fact that we have had nothing to brag about in ages is no excuse.

 

[Rick74*]

I agree, humility is always better. But the bolded is pretty stupid lol.

You can think that but You could probably have enough fingers to count how many times the Leafs were legit contenders over the course of those 50 years.

And if you are not contending, then you are building to contend.

So I don't think it's stupid to say at all. We've just gone through vast phases of rebuilds. Be it Stelleck, Fletchers, Ferguson Dryden's Quinns, or Burke. Now we have Shanahan and Lou which has reset us from Burke, who reset us from Ferguson who reset us from...well you get the picture.

So again., how is it "pretty stupid"?