Buffalo Bills Talk 2017 part 2 (9-7): Next - The Offseason with First Round Picks at 21 & 22

[OkimLom]

This is laughable take. How does anyone proclaim to know what Peterman is at this point of his career

the same way people are clamoring that Peterman should start...

 

[missingmika]

'Peterman is trash' is a very solid take. Respect to you.

No one should want Peterman before Kaepernick.

 

[stokes84]

I think Taylor has finally given us the answer to what he is - the quintessential game manager. It used to be Alex Smith, now it is Tyrod. If you ask him to do the bare minimum an NFL QB is required to do to win, he can do it. But if he has to do anything more, you are pushing your luck. If everything is going well, all you need him to do is make a handful of throws, scramble for a couple of first downs, and don't turn the ball over. As long as the team around him is good, he can get you where you want to go. You don't have an advantage from having him, but you don't get beat because of him. He's a completely neutral QB.

For those that want to see Peterman, it's because you want more than that. But the risk is that you give up the game manager aspect and end up with a guy who could get your beat. There is more of a chance that he's a net negative than a net positive. The Bills need to role with Taylor and try to get him some help at the skills positions before they go to Peterman.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

With the unbelievably poor skill position talent on the offensive side of the ball now, Tyrod's a good QB to have.

The bye week comes at the perfect time because some major patchwork has to be done. They are seriously down to 4th quarter preseason talent.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

The reason people want to see Peterman is it's been 17 years since they've made the playoffs and we have absolutely nothing to lose by putting him in. If anybody can put forth an argument proving we have something to lose as Bills fans starting Peterman well move over Aristotle.

If Peterman is horrible you go back to Taylor, no damage done, because Tyrod isn't taking you anywhere anyway.

Those who are blaming the poor group of receivers he has to work with, he was a mediocre QB when he had Watkins and Woods and Clay. He makes a handful of nice plays a game, yay.

Anyway the worst thing for this franchise is a 7-9 or 8-8 season.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

I think Tyrod is a good enough 'game manager' to lead a strong defensive team to a playoff run.

I haven't thought that since Bledsoe.

Besides, putting Peterman in now to see what you have will provide no answers. The offense will likely be terrible, and he'll have every excuse in the book, and rightfully so.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

can't wait to pass on QBs next year because we need a new oline to play with the new coaching staff that refused to keep the same system that produced the #1 power play, I mean rushing game.

 

[sabresfan129103]

So what's the opinion on Tre' White today? Got burned on a few plays, but made some decent plays after the green TD. He seems to be able to bounce back after giving up a big play. He's like a hockey goalie, he seems to be able to forget about it and move on.

 

[sincerity0]

I think Taylor has finally given us the answer to what he is - the quintessential game manager. It used to be Alex Smith, now it is Tyrod. If you ask him to do the bare minimum an NFL QB is required to do to win, he can do it. But if he has to do anything more, you are pushing your luck. If everything is going well, all you need him to do is make a handful of throws, scramble for a couple of first downs, and don't turn the ball over. As long as the team around him is good, he can get you where you want to go. You don't have an advantage from having him, but you don't get beat because of him. He's a completely neutral QB.

For those that want to see Peterman, it's because you want more than that. But the risk is that you give up the game manager aspect and end up with a guy who could get your beat. There is more of a chance that he's a net negative than a net positive. The Bills need to role with Taylor and try to get him some help at the skills positions before they go to Peterman.

Finally? Realistically Tyrod showed that after his first season as a starter. Tyrod is definitely good enough to lead a really good defensive team to a 10-6, maybe 11-5, win season if everything breaks right. Regardless, the best, most competitive teams are doing more than the bare minimum at QB. IMO Tyrod is the bare minimum of what a "successful" team needs to have a shot at the playoffs.

Your point on Alex Smith was spot on.

So what's the opinion on Tre' White today? Got burned on a few plays, but made some decent plays after the green TD. He seems to be able to bounce back after giving up a big play. He's like a hockey goalie, he seems to be able to forget about it and move on.

Tre has shown great flashes this year. He's been study otherwise. The TD play he bit too hard on AJ Green. A rookie CB on a top 5 receiver in the league... not ideal. I still thought he made some nice plays as the game went on.

As a side note on Tre - it seems like hes going to be a solid all around corner. The theme I get from McD and Beane is that they want super consistent players on both sides of the ball. If that means giving up some big play ability so be it.

 

[Fezzy126]

The reason people want to see Peterman is it's been 17 years since they've made the playoffs and we have absolutely nothing to lose by putting him in. If anybody can put forth an argument proving we have something to lose as Bills fans starting Peterman well move over Aristotle.

If Peterman is horrible you go back to Taylor, no damage done, because Tyrod isn't taking you anywhere anyway.

Those who are blaming the poor group of receivers he has to work with, he was a mediocre QB when he had Watkins and Woods and Clay. He makes a handful of nice plays a game, yay.

Anyway the worst thing for this franchise is a 7-9 or 8-8 season.

Is that so?

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/...ese-key-stats-to-revive-stagnant-pass-attack/

"In the 15 games in which LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay were all on the field, Taylor has a 64-percent completion rate, throwing for 3,362 yards for 26 touchdowns and just six interceptions. In the 14 games in which one of those players weren’t available, Taylor’s numbers sunk, as he completed just 61.2-percent of his passes for 2,697 yards, throwing only 11 touchdowns and six interceptions."

yeah, that does seem mediocre...
TT's been hung out to dry with this supporting cast. And oh, btw, Matt Ryan looked like garbage last week when he lost his top two targets, and his team was still able to support him with an effective run game. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

 

[kirby11]

Cincinnati was killing us with little 5, 6 and 7 yard slants up the middle. That looks like the simplest play in the world to execute. We really don't have the personnel on offense to run those type of plays?

Not when your QB sucks at timing routes and refuses to throw the ball unless he sees his receiver running wide open.

The annoying thing is, if Taylor can make 3-5 anticipatory throws like the TD pass to Tate on a per game basis, we probably win either this game or the Carolina one.

 

[SoFFacet]

I think Taylor has finally given us the answer to what he is - the quintessential game manager. It used to be Alex Smith, now it is Tyrod. If you ask him to do the bare minimum an NFL QB is required to do to win, he can do it. But if he has to do anything more, you are pushing your luck. If everything is going well, all you need him to do is make a handful of throws, scramble for a couple of first downs, and don't turn the ball over. As long as the team around him is good, he can get you where you want to go. You don't have an advantage from having him, but you don't get beat because of him. He's a completely neutral QB.

For those that want to see Peterman, it's because you want more than that. But the risk is that you give up the game manager aspect and end up with a guy who could get your beat. There is more of a chance that he's a net negative than a net positive. The Bills need to role with Taylor and try to get him some help at the skills positions before they go to Peterman.

I'm not following. The report on Peterman is that he has the ideal skill set to be a game manager.

The reason people want to see Peterman is it's been 17 years since they've made the playoffs and we have absolutely nothing to lose by putting him in. If anybody can put forth an argument proving we have something to lose as Bills fans starting Peterman well move over Aristotle.

If Peterman is horrible you go back to Taylor, no damage done, because Tyrod isn't taking you anywhere anyway.

Those who are blaming the poor group of receivers he has to work with, he was a mediocre QB when he had Watkins and Woods and Clay. He makes a handful of nice plays a game, yay.

Anyway the worst thing for this franchise is a 7-9 or 8-8 season.

The drought has warped people's brains. The situation hasn't greatly changed since earlier today. We lost a close game on the road against a good opponent. Vegas thought we would lose anyway. We're 3-2. We're going to be in the thick of the wildcard race. But yeah, we have nothing to lose by just throwing our 6th round rookie to the wolves. Right.

 

[enthusiast]

Is there a publicly accessible source for information regarding drops?

 

[enthusiast]

I'm not following. The report on Peterman is that he has the ideal skill set to be a game manager.

His realistic peak after a couple years of development is a backup who won't automatically lose you games.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Is that so?

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/...ese-key-stats-to-revive-stagnant-pass-attack/

"In the 15 games in which LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay were all on the field, Taylor has a 64-percent completion rate, throwing for 3,362 yards for 26 touchdowns and just six interceptions. In the 14 games in which one of those players weren’t available, Taylor’s numbers sunk, as he completed just 61.2-percent of his passes for 2,697 yards, throwing only 11 touchdowns and six interceptions."

yeah, that does seem mediocre...
TT's been hung out to dry with this supporting cast. And oh, btw, Matt Ryan looked like garbage last week when he lost his top two targets, and his team was still able to support him with an effective run game. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

Those #'s arent that great it works out to 224 yards a game. You need a QB who can throw the ball for 300+ yards on occasion. Tyrod has exactly one game in his career here where he's thrown for over 300 yards. That's garbage. People can make all the excuses they want (offensive line, piss poor starting receivers, drops, play calling) bottomline is, he's not good enough. Good qb's make the players around them better. Tyrod Taylor is a below average starting qb. He can manage a game and keep his team in it by not making massive mistakes, which makes for an almost completely unwatchable offense.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Is that so?

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/...ese-key-stats-to-revive-stagnant-pass-attack/

"In the 15 games in which LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay were all on the field, Taylor has a 64-percent completion rate, throwing for 3,362 yards for 26 touchdowns and just six interceptions. In the 14 games in which one of those players weren’t available, Taylor’s numbers sunk, as he completed just 61.2-percent of his passes for 2,697 yards, throwing only 11 touchdowns and six interceptions."

yeah, that does seem mediocre...
TT's been hung out to dry with this supporting cast. And oh, btw, Matt Ryan looked like garbage last week when he lost his top two targets, and his team was still able to support him with an effective run game. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

so under the best case scenario he would have been 25th in yards, 11th in tds, 15th in completion % last season, so even under the best case scenarios he hasn't distinguished himself as anything more than the average qb

I dont have a problem with Taylor specifically, but I'm ready for a team that doesnt need everything to go their way to get into the playoffs, the nfl has shown that a star QB is the most efficient way to be a consistent winner, sorry to all average QBs out there but its tough to mask the flaws of an average player when he plays QB

dedicate the team to getting a QB, keep building up the defense, patch together the o-line, then once you have a QB go pull off another sammy watkins trade

 

[26CornerBlitz]

CAPACCIO: Bills-Bengals: Arrow Up/Arrow Down

Bills drop to 3-2 after a tough day in Cincinnati

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Husko]

Not sure why last nights game ignited anything new in the Tyrod discussion. We didn't learn anything we didn't already know. He is what he is. The one thing I would be eager to see is him in an offense built completely around him and his skill set. I hope I get to see that eventually. I also hope he's not on the bills when I get to see that.

 

[SoFFacet]

After Dennison, the OL is the #1 problem on the team. It's a shame because we've lavished so many resources on it already. Oh well. Currently projecting QB/OT/G for our first three picks next year.

Double shame because we had the #1 rushing attack in the league two years in a row with basically the same personnel. We torched the #1 most difficult slate of running defenses last year. How arrogant does this Dennison clown have to be to think he could do better than that? We're a running team that can't run the ball. If Lynn were somehow still the OC we'd be 5-0 right now.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Yesterday's game was a prime example of wanting Maclin really bad this summer because our WRS are straight trash and that was when we still had Watkins. Jones looks horrible. People think Peterman would do good with O Leary and McCoy as the top 2 receiving options? Laughable.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

After Dennison, the OL is the #1 problem on the team. It's a shame because we've lavished so many resources on it already. Oh well. Currently projecting QB/OT/G for our first three picks next year.

Double shame because we had the #1 rushing attack in the league two years in a row with basically the same personnel. We torched the #1 most difficult slate of running defenses last year. How arrogant does this Dennison clown have to be to think he could do better than that? We're a running team that can't run the ball. If Lynn were somehow still the OC we'd be 5-0 right now.

Not having your best OL hurts.

A massive decline at backup RB, how Tolbert is getting so many carries is preposterous.

I think McCoy may have lost a step. He's at the age where high-usage RBs usually start declining.

Defenses have no respect for Bills receivers. It really showed against the Bengals with so many run blitzes, even in common passing situations. The Bills faced a lot of stacked boxes before, but Sammy did at least mitigate 2 defenders. There's none of that now.

Arrogance is trying to run against defenses stacked to stop the run. That's why Dennison (or whoever decides play calls) has called a high amount of 1st down passing plays.

 

[Fezzy126]

Those #'s arent that great it works out to 224 yards a game. You need a QB who can throw the ball for 300+ yards on occasion. Tyrod has exactly one game in his career here where he's thrown for over 300 yards. That's garbage. People can make all the excuses they want (offensive line, piss poor starting receivers, drops, play calling) bottomline is, he's not good enough. Good qb's make the players around them better. Tyrod Taylor is a below average starting qb. He can manage a game and keep his team in it by not making massive mistakes, which makes for an almost completely unwatchable offense.

Look, I'm not going to get into a pissing match here, the poster said that Tyrod was mediocre when he had all of his weapons. That statement is absolutely false and the counterargument is backed up by facts. If you want to move the goalposts on the argument, then fine. I'll simply point out that with those numbers, his YPA and TD/INT is elite. We operate a low volume passing attack that relies on the run to be successful, so you cannot point to yardage totals and 300 yard games to measure his effectiveness. Look no further than a team like the steelers, who ran a similar low volume system early in Ben's career. Ben's first 9 years in the league (before they hired Haley) were very pedestrian. Enter Haley and a high volume passing attack, and everything changes.

Look, I don't think Tyrod is elite, I think he's somewhere in the 10-15 range. Until I see him surrounded with better than replacement level talent on the Oline and at receiver, and utilized in a high volume passing attack, I'm not ready to assume the offense will perform better with anyone else at the helm.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[johnjm22]

We got beat by a more talented deeper team. We were lucky to even have a chance in the game thanks to some fortunate turnovers that went in our favor.

Our lack of talent on offense was eventually going to catch up with us.