Bud Holloway (Sent Down)

[Whitesnake]

Well, if we'd all be doing the same evaluation as you're suggesting, we'd all be rubber-stamping what Therrien and co. are deciding, so I suppose there isn't any room for discussion, is there? And Therrien and co., I assume, are always right?

Well of course not. I am the greatest advocate of "It's not because pros do it that they are always right". So it's not about that. My only point is that you can't blame or bash posters for being so irrationnal unless your point is that those pros ALSO took an irrationnal decision to begin with. I just wanted to point out that my analysis, in that case, is the same as theirs. If you don't agree with mine...you then don't agree with theirs and it's perfect like that.

Just thought that you were bashing posters who were wrong in their analysis as if the management didn't had the same thought process. Seem that they did, seem that you think that posters AND management were wrong. And again, totally fine with me. Yes, I will agree that at one point, you need more than "1 game in a row" to look good. Most definately. But I guess that they were more eager to see what others than him could do. Doesn't mean he's not coming back too at one point.

 

[Treb]

When it comes to player personal decisions Theriens and co are always right. It's their job. I love how posters think they can make better choices than professionals. Maybe you should Apple if Therien gets canned and then you can coax the GM to sign Holloway

So coaches are always right? So why do coaches lose their job if they always take the right decision?

Guys like Tortorella (a coach, so he's always right) wouldn't play Weise and Weise was becoming a fringe NHLer. Then he get traded to us and another coach, MT, gives him opportunities and he becomes a 3rd liner. Did Weise magically developp talent between the two?

No, one coach was wrong and one was right.

As a matter of fact, how is anyone ''always right''? MDs are not always right when making diagnostic, judges don't always render the right verdict, policemen sometimes makes wrong arrestations...

Every single person on the planet can be wrong. Therrien is not some kind of omniscient being.

 

[Runner77]

Well of course not. I am the greatest advocate of "It's not because pros do it that they are always right". So it's not about that. My only point is that you can't blame or bash posters for being so irrationnal unless your point is that those pros ALSO took an irrationnal decision to begin with. I just wanted to point out that my analysis, in that case, is the same as theirs. If you don't agree with mine...you then don't agree with theirs and it's perfect like that.

I don't believe in blaming or bashing posters. Just because we disagree on a point, doesn't entitle anyone to engage in personal attacks, nor is anything personal being inferred by the fact of not being on the same page about any given issues. It's just par for the course on a fan board. That said, you may be right in the end, and Bud may be headed to other skies when all is done, however, I don't know that Therrien has been convinced one way or the other. Bud has limitations but he also has a knack for scoring and that is a valuable asset that can find its way back to the NHL.

Just thought that you were bashing posters who were wrong in their analysis as if the management didn't had the same thought process. [/B]Seem that they did, seem that you think that posters AND management were wrong. And again, totally fine with me. Yes, I will agree that at one point, you need more than "1 game in a row" to look good. Most definately. But I guess that they were more eager to see what others than him could do. Doesn't mean he's not coming back too at one point.

Again, I never "bash" anyone. If I happen to disagree, it will be with their comments, not on a personal level. I couldn't care less about getting personal with anyone, I'm responding to a stranger hiding behind a moniker, doesn't give me any particular benefit. I'll gladly leave winning at the internet to others.

 

[Zorba]

So coaches are always right? So why do coaches lose their job if they always take the right decision?

Guys like Tortorella (a coach, so he's always right) wouldn't play Weise and Weise was becoming a fringe NHLer. Then he get traded to us and another coach, MT, gives him opportunities and he becomes a 3rd liner. Did Weise magically developp talent between the two?

No, one coach was wrong and one was right.

As a matter of fact, how is anyone ''always right''? MDs are not always right when making diagnostic, judges don't always render the right verdict, policemen sometimes makes wrong arrestations...

Every single person on the planet can be wrong. Therrien is not some kind of omniscient being.

Sorry let me rephrase. NHL coaches are always right over fans. How bout that. They Determined buds not worth an NHL spot. I'm not arguing with a NHL coach and GM.

 

[Treb]

Sorry let me rephrase. NHL coaches are always right over fans. How bout that. They Determined buds not worth an NHL spot. I'm not arguing with a NHL coach and GM.

Knowledgeable fans were pissed the moment the Gomez-McDonagh trade happened. They were right. The GM was wrong.

Of course, Bud's situation isn't as clear and the coach is probably right, but it's too soon to say Bud is 100% an AHLer. I do agree with the assesment he hasn't shown much in his 7 minutes of play, but to seal his fate after this is pretty harsh. He may also be a guy that would work better with another coach (see Weise Tortorella vs MT).

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't believe in blaming or bashing posters. Just because we disagree on a point, doesn't entitle anyone to engage in personal attacks, nor is anything personal being inferred by the fact of not being on the same page about any given issues. It's just par for the course on a fan board. That said, you may be right in the end, and Bud may be headed to other skies when all is done, however, I don't know that Therrien has been convinced one way or the other. Bud has limitations but he also has a knack for scoring and that is a valuable asset that can find its way back to the NHL.



Again, I never "bash" anyone. If I happen to disagree, it will be with their comments, not on a personal level. I couldn't care less about getting personal with anyone, I'm responding to a stranger hiding behind a moniker, doesn't give me any particular benefit. I'll gladly leave winning at the internet to others.

Might have chosen the wrong word, but I totally understood and still understand that you are not the type of poster who will personnally attack somebody. That bashing was moreso about disagreeing than anything else.

 

[Kriss E]

Well of course not. I am the greatest advocate of "It's not because pros do it that they are always right". So it's not about that. My only point is that you can't blame or bash posters for being so irrationnal unless your point is that those pros ALSO took an irrationnal decision to begin with. I just wanted to point out that my analysis, in that case, is the same as theirs. If you don't agree with mine...you then don't agree with theirs and it's perfect like that.

Just thought that you were bashing posters who were wrong in their analysis as if the management didn't had the same thought process. Seem that they did, seem that you think that posters AND management were wrong. And again, totally fine with me. Yes, I will agree that at one point, you need more than "1 game in a row" to look good. Most definately. But I guess that they were more eager to see what others than him could do. Doesn't mean he's not coming back too at one point.

I really don't understand the idea of calling up a prospect to play him for 7 min.
I mean, we're talking of a prospect here, not an AHL talent. He very well might end up just being an AHL talent, but I doubt that's why we signed him.

 

[FireBurningBin]

I really don't understand the idea of calling up a prospect to play him for 7 min.
I mean, we're talking of a prospect here, not an AHL talent. He very well might end up just being an AHL talent, but I doubt that's why we signed him.

This and playing him with 4th line talent doesn't make much sense to me, if the goal of the call up was to be anything more than either having a warm body in the lineup or letting them "learn the speed of the NHL game" (which arguably isn't more valuable than playing top minutes in the AHL).

 

[Whitesnake]

I really don't understand the idea of calling up a prospect to play him for 7 min.
I mean, we're talking of a prospect here, not an AHL talent. He very well might end up just being an AHL talent, but I doubt that's why we signed him.

Just a first glance of a few prospects that we have. Mitchell is about to come back. They just probably want to see as many guys they can, to give them an idea of where they are (as small an idea it can be...) AND to give them the feel (as small a feel...) of the NHL. Doesn't mean he's not coming back.

Somehow though, you end up playing 7 minutes maybe because that's all you can give. I would think that a guy with some serious jump would have been able to get more minutes. Holloway seemed totally out of his league, nervous and tentative on every shift. Thomas didn't.

 

[Paddyjack]

With only 7 minutes, a lot of players might not look visible. So unfair to extrapolate anything from so little.

Actually, he also practiced with the team. They may have had a good look on him right there, and decided to give him a game to motivate him before sending him down.

 

[Runner77]

Actually, he also practiced with the team. They may have had a good look on him right there, and decided to give him a game to motivate him before sending him down.

Well, on that basis alone, Carr practised with the team as well and unlike Bud, won't be getting into a game tonight. I wonder how good a look Carr got so far.

Or did Carr lose out to Thomas tonight, cause Thomas was both better at practice and better at being related to someone who is one of Bergevin's good friends from his playing days.

 

[Paddyjack]

Well, on that basis alone, Carr practised with the team as well and unlike Bud, won't be getting into a game tonight. I wonder how good a look Carr got so far.

Or did Carr lose out to Thomas tonight, cause Thomas was both better at practice and better at being related to someone who is one of Bergevin's good friends from his playing days.

Actually, unless I'm wrong, I don't think Holloway got the opportunity the first game after his recall, I think it was the game after.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Sorry let me rephrase. NHL coaches are always right over fans. How bout that. They Determined buds not worth an NHL spot. I'm not arguing with a NHL coach and GM.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

I know enough people in the NHL to know that they are very often wrong. Putting them on such a grand pedestal only shows a lack of knowledge on the individual doing so. Was Mike Milbury smarter than the average fan when he made bonehead trades that were publicly ridiculed from the second that they were made?

Managing/coaching /scouting of Professional sports teams is unique in that there isn't a formal educational process that can verify a level of understanding and expertise. The hiring process is purely subjective and initially is often a case of personal relationships and networking within a closed community that does not require any level of education to gain entry into. The end result inevitably is that there are many people hired who are not skilled enough to perform in their respective roles competently. They are eventually exposed through trial and error.

If your statement is that the average coach/scout/gm knows substantially more than the average fan then you would be correct. To claim that any human being paid in any of these vocations is always right relative to a person who has not been paid to do so is utter lunacy.

 

[Zorba]

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

I know enough people in the NHL to know that they are very often wrong. Putting them on such a grand pedestal only shows a lack of knowledge on the individual doing so. Was Mike Milbury smarter than the average fan when he made bonehead trades that were publicly ridiculed from the second that they were made?

Managing/coaching /scouting of Professional sports teams is unique in that there isn't a formal educational process that can verify a level of understanding and expertise. The hiring process is purely subjective and initially is often a case of personal relationships and networking within a closed community that does not require any level of education to gain entry into. The end result inevitably is that there are many people hired who are not skilled enough to perform in their respective roles competently. They are eventually exposed through trial and error.

If your statement is that the average coach/scout/gm knows substantially more than the average fan then you would be correct. To claim that any human being paid in any of these vocations is always right relative to a person who has not been paid to do so is utter lunacy.

Every NHL coach knows more than us armchair coaches. To think anything else is pure Lunacy. If not, start getting into the coaching ranks. So much love for Holloway when at the end of the day he's too slow to play In the NHL. It's that simple. Teams aren't knocking down Bergevins door to acquire Bud. If he was so highly thought of around the league he wouldn't have signed a 2 way deal. So many pages on Bud it's unreal. Seems hab fans get excited with any player Bergevin signs

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Every NHL coach knows more than us armchair coaches. To think anything else is pure Lunacy. If not, start getting into the coaching ranks. So much love for Holloway when at the end of the day he's too slow to play In the NHL. It's that simple. Teams aren't knocking down Bergevins door to acquire Bud. If he was so highly thought of around the league he wouldn't have signed a 2 way deal. So many pages on Bud it's unreal. Seems hab fans get excited with any player Bergevin signs

I never mentioned Holloway. Only responded to your claim that NHL coaches are never wrong and fans are never right.

You are simply wrong. I have had this discussion with NHL coaches and they are the first to admit that there are some world class idiots that are being paid good money to do a job that they are utterly incompetent in.

I know stories from agents about their dealings with some of these buffoons as well. If you want to believe that these people are all beyond reproach then go ahead but the truth is that there are many people employed by NHL teams that literally know nothing more than the average fan as they are completely devoid of any critical thinking skills. Just dinosaurs regurgitating truisms and mindless rhetoric. Don't get me wrong there are some very bright people in the game but like any profession, there is more than your fair share of blundering fools holding down jobs. Even the brightest gm's make mistakes from time to time and there are fans who would have made a better decision, this is a fact that you need to accept. It doesn't mean that the fan knows more than the gm but occasionally the fan is right.....some fans are right alot more than others btw....

 

[Seb]

9 pts in 10 games with the CSKA Moscow, he should've played on the first line here.

 

[De Montreal]

9 pts in 10 games with the CSKA Moscow, he should've played on the first line here.

Bud was never given a fair chance and it's crystal clear he's bound to become a top tier player

 

[1909]

Bud was never given a fair chance and it's crystal clear he's bound to become a top tier player

The guy is 30.... + he is playing in the KHL which is going down in talent (and $$$) every single season...

 

[1909]

I never mentioned Holloway. Only responded to your claim that NHL coaches are never wrong and fans are never right.

You are simply wrong. I have had this discussion with NHL coaches and they are the first to admit that there are some world class idiots that are being paid good money to do a job that they are utterly incompetent in.

I know stories from agents about their dealings with some of these buffoons as well. If you want to believe that these people are all beyond reproach then go ahead but the truth is that there are many people employed by NHL teams that literally know nothing more than the average fan as they are completely devoid of any critical thinking skills. Just dinosaurs regurgitating truisms and mindless rhetoric. Don't get me wrong there are some very bright people in the game but like any profession, there is more than your fair share of blundering fools holding down jobs. Even the brightest gm's make mistakes from time to time and there are fans who would have made a better decision, this is a fact that you need to accept. It doesn't mean that the fan knows more than the gm but occasionally the fan is right.....some fans are right alot more than others btw....

Really ?

 

[JusticeBeaver]

lol bud freaking holloway is not an NHL player.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Is he back playing? I saw he got smoked that one game on a dirty hit, just glad he's okay.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The guy is 30.... + he is playing in the KHL which is going down in talent (and $$$) every single season...

He's 28. He looked very, very good in St. John's last year. However, the Habs did not see him as being in their plans, and age can't be the only reason considering they signed Radulov, gave a PTO to Alexandrov, and are interested in Shipachev.

I'm thinking the Habs feel he is not quick enough for them. I do think he could help some bottom teams, and he seems to be a vet with a really good attitude.