Brooks Orpik - trade him sooner than later?

[ObsessedCreative*]

Even most of the biggest Orpik homers wouldn't go that far.

Well let me rephrased that... it wasn't meant to sound like you are making it out to be.

I don't think that Orpik is equal to the player Weber is... I'm just saying there are really that make guys in the league who we could trade for that would bring all Orpik brings to this team.

We move him and the already soft D becomes butter. Thats all I am saying...

We would need to get back a guy with decent size, hitting, and tough/meanness or brooks and there arent too many in the league who can do all that.

 

[MonsterSurge]

I'd want Matt Greene or some other physical guy coming back. That being said, Orpik will finish his career where he started it.

 

[KIRK]

I'd want Matt Greene or some other physical guy coming back. That being said, Orpik will finish his career where he started it.

I think so too. I'd just prefer that it be on a Chris Phillips style 'thanks for the memories' 3M a year deal.

Anything more is an overpayment for an organization dealing with far more pressing issues in a cap world.

 

[Tender Rip]

It's amazing what happens when you ask a guy to play his game that has made him successful in the past, rather than forcing him to be someone he is not.

It isn't just you choosing this (IMO) indefensible line of reasoning, but pray tell what you think it is he is being asked to do now that he wasn't before... alternatively what you thought was being forced upon him?

He is simply playing well as opposed to most of last season when he didn't. That is all.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

It isn't just you choosing this (IMO) indefensible line of reasoning, but pray tell what you think it is he is being asked to do now that he wasn't before... alternatively what you thought was being forced upon him?

He is simply playing well as opposed to most of last season when he didn't. That is all.

To me he seems to be playing a much more of a simple shut down type of game, with out being a huge transition puck moving guy.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Even before this season started, you couldn't trade Orpik. Out of the top 4, he's the only guy other than Letang that will touch someone.

Now that the season's started, it's evident he's playing/skating a lot better than he did the past few years due to the groin injuries. We don't need to get rid of Orpik. If anything, we could use another defender like him in the 5-6 role "just incase" we have an injury or two.

 

[jmelm]

Firstly, let me say, as we all know, Brooks was much better tongiht. I'm in NYC and attended the game in person, and he had a strong game, and played the kind of safe, consistent way we need him to. He pinched in only once in the offensive zone, on a play that was very obviously the correct one. The two great hits on which he stepped up were at the blue-line when he had good support and number of teammates on his side. I think Jaded got it right:

I think that Orpik read this thread.

Moving along, however...

Beau Bennett.

Like Ugene Malkin said, Beau Bennett.

Guys, can we please be reality here?


I'm as high on Bennett as the next guy, but we're not going to pass on trying to sign Jarome Iginla or Corey Perry if they hit the market just because we've got Bennett in the system.


I believe Bennett will be ready to make the jump next season, but I believe it will be as a great 3rd wheel to one of the top-2 lines and as a replacement for a guy like Tangradi in the top-6, not as a replacement for what we were trying to do with signing Zach Parise, or if the same should happen with Iginla or Perry. We're talking about PRIMARY wingers that could flank Crosby and score somewhere between 30-50 goals and 80-90 points. If Bennett does that, he'll win the Calder and become one of the best forwards in the league. He may do that someday, but it's not going to happen for a few years at the least. Ideally, we get Crosby his winger NOW.


Brooks Orpik showed why, as I expected, that he (and Martin) belong here, at least until next summer. But one or both will be moved, as necessary, to facilitate paying for an Iginla or Perry if those guys were to sign here. By next summer and to start the 2013-2014 season, like without one or both of Martin/Orpik will possible

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Until that Ruopp kid makes the AHL and shows he can be a physical beast that has solid positioning to make Orpik expendable, we need the guy. He's the tough as nails veteran on that blueline that brings that big hit that can change the tempo of the game. Yeah once in a while he gets out of his position to crush someone, it happens, even to Sid & Geno.

Let's not get hasty here.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Firstly, let me say, as we all know, Brooks was much better tongiht. I'm in NYC and attended the game in person, and he had a strong game, and played the kind of safe, consistent way we need him to. He pinched in only once in the offensive zone, on a play that was very obviously the correct one. The two great hits on which he stepped up were at the blue-line when he had good support and number of teammates on his side. I think Jaded got it right:




Moving along, however...








Guys, can we please be reality here?


I'm as high on Bennett as the next guy, but we're not going to pass on trying to sign Jarome Iginla or Corey Perry if they hit the market just because we've got Bennett in the system.


I believe Bennett will be ready to make the jump next season, but I believe it will be as a great 3rd wheel to one of the top-2 lines and as a replacement for a guy like Tangradi in the top-6, not as a replacement for what we were trying to do with signing Zach Parise, or if the same should happen with Iginla or Perry. We're talking about PRIMARY wingers that could flank Crosby and score somewhere between 30-50 goals and 80-90 points. If Bennett does that, he'll win the Calder and become one of the best forwards in the league. He may do that someday, but it's not going to happen for a few years at the least. Ideally, we get Crosby his winger NOW.


Brooks Orpik showed why, as I expected, that he (and Martin) belong here, at least until next summer. But one or both will be moved, as necessary, to facilitate paying for an Iginla or Perry if those guys were to sign here. By next summer and to start the 2013-2014 season, like without one or both of Martin/Orpik will possible

Reality is losing one of Cooke or Dupuis plus Martin to fit one of those guys in.

 

[jmelm]

Until that Ruopp kid makes the AHL and shows he can be a physical beast that has solid positioning to make Orpik expendable, we need the guy. He's the tough as nails veteran on that blueline that brings that big hit that can change the tempo of the game. Yeah once in a while he gets out of his position to crush someone, it happens, even to Sid & Geno.

Let's not get hasty here.

Yeah, well there are 29 teams in the NHL that don't have Brooks Orpik, and 3 of them have won the cup since we did in 2009, so I don't think that's the only way to win. Hey, Brooks may still be great now, but there's no question he is inconsistent at times, and it's all but certain that he will begin to decline in terms of his play or his health sometime during the next couple of years.


But the good news is, we've got some top-notch prospects that we won't be able to keep "hidden" either as the #7/8 guys in the NHL or in the AHL for very long either. That list includes, in terms of guys who project to be ready by next season: Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Harrington.


Gone will be one of Orpik or Martin. In will be 1 or 2 of that group besides Despres, who is already in. I share people's sentiments that like what Orpik brings, but let's be honest: if you have this line-up, do you really see a problem?

Niskanen-Letang
Martin/Orpik-Bortuzzo
Despres-Egelland

And sub Dumoulin or Harrington into any one of those left-side spots if it means we have Iginla or Perry incoming. Basically, in the latter scenario (with Dumoulin in the line-up instead of Martin or Orpik), we have Despres (6'4), Dumoulin (6'4), Bortuzzo (6'4), Engelland (6'2), and then Letang & Niskanen. Maybe even Nisky gets moved out along with one of Orpik/Martin, and the other or Orpik/Martin is retained.


In any of the above scenarios, I don't feel concerned about our lack of size or physicality on the back-end. Sure, we may not have one guy who is notorious for making big hits, but we get bigger in the process, will generate more offense on the back-end, and create a ton of cap room up front. It's a win-win scenario anyway you look at it beyond this season, provided the young guys mentioned above keep progressing as they have been -- and there's no reason to suspect otherwise at this point.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah, well there are 29 teams in the NHL that don't have Brooks Orpik, and 3 of them have won the cup since we did in 2009, so I don't think that's the only way to win. Hey, Brooks may still be great now, but there's no question he is inconsistent at times, and it's all but certain that he will begin to decline in terms of his play or his health sometime during the next couple of years.


But the good news is, we've got some top-notch prospects that we won't be able to keep "hidden" either as the #7/8 guys in the NHL or in the AHL for very long either. That list includes, in terms of guys who project to be ready by next season: Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Harrington.


Gone will be one of Orpik or Martin. In will be 1 or 2 of that group besides Despres, who is already in. I share people's sentiments that like what Orpik brings, but let's be honest: if you have this line-up, do you really see a problem?

Niskanen-Letang
Martin/Orpik-Bortuzzo
Despres-Egelland

And sub Dumoulin or Harrington into any one of those left-side spots if it means we have Iginla or Perry incoming. Basically, in the latter scenario (with Dumoulin in the line-up instead of Martin or Orpik), we have Despres (6'4), Dumoulin (6'4), Bortuzzo (6'4), Engelland (6'2), and then Letang & Niskanen. Maybe even Nisky gets moved out along with one of Orpik/Martin, and the other or Orpik/Martin is retained.


In any of the above scenarios, I don't feel concerned about our lack of size or physicality on the back-end. Sure, we may not have one guy who is notorious for making big hits, but we get bigger in the process, will generate more offense on the back-end, and create a ton of cap room up front. It's a win-win scenario anyway you look at it beyond this season, provided the young guys mentioned above keep progressing as they have been -- and there's no reason to suspect otherwise at this point.

Pens had many...many issues in the past 2yrs.

Orpik was definitely not one of them.


Edit: Really, Harrington? I think you have some very lofty expectations. If Despres gets better sure, but Shero isn't going to dump Orpik and Martin for the idea of those guys making it, they would need to play out of their minds in camp next season and in the preseason and on top of that, Orpik has to decline drastically for Shero to be like "ok, let's trade one of the leaders of this team and the biggest physical presence...to play some rookies!" I have high hopes too, but this team rarely makes rookies regulars right away, Letang has been the one exception the last few years, Despres seems to be sort of the next.

 

[MonsterSurge]

I have no idea why you want Orpik gone. He's not going anywhere.

 

[Marns]

Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Frankly, I'd rather supplement Orpik with another 5-6 guy who can hit.

 

[wtbipyo]

Orpik finishes with the Pens. In a year or two, he becomes a 5-6 guy and we let him walk out into the sunset. Until then ... "FREE CANDY" for all you haters!

 

[Malkin4Top6Wingerz]

Two games in and Orpik is playing better than I've seen him in ages. The lockout probably helped a ton in terms of health - he'd been battling all kinds of nagging injuries over the last few seasons. What it doesn't explain, though, is how much better his decision making has been. I don't see him chasing out of position to pointlessly rough somebody up the way he always used to and in general he's seemed more fundamentally sound. Only two games in though. We'll see if old habits die hard.

The prospect of trading him at this point is pretty laughable in any case, having already dealt Michalek and waived Strait. Even if it were just Michalek that was gone, I don't know how anybody could be confident in whoever takes Orpik's spot in the top 4. Hell, I'm already a little bit weary of Niskanen taking over Michalek's ice time. I know we're rich in defensive prospects, but they're still a ways from being NHL ready. Let's relax for a bit.

 

[Shockmaster]

This thread = FAIL

The Pens don't need to get rid of one of their top 4 d-men. In fact, even though they are off to a good start, they will probably need to acquire one more top 4 d-man by the deadline if they want to make a serious run in the playoffs.

 

[mpp9]

Niskanen is a better defender than Michalek on this team. We have a legit top 4. Still not seeing the need to add a D-man especially when we're so deep at that position. Trust the guys we have rather than bringing in a question mark.

Orpik and Martin turning their games around is huge.

 

[JTG]

Matt Niskanen has upped his game significantly, IMO. He isn't playing that squishy soft game that I saw him play in Dallas and when he got here. He's physical on the puck, and is positionally sound. He's also making pretty good decisions with the puck. Sid may be right about Niskanen.

 

[Shockmaster]

Niskanen is a better defender than Michalek on this team. We have a legit top 4. Still not seeing the need to add a D-man especially when we're so deep at that position. Trust the guys we have rather than bringing in a question mark.

Orpik and Martin turning their games around is huge.

They have a bunch of prospects, not proven NHL talent. Don't confuse the two. If one of the guys in the top 4 gets injured then the Penguins have a big problem. With the Penguins being a win now team, they need to get one more top 4 d-man, even if that means giving up a prospect or two.

 

[mpp9]

They have a bunch of prospects, not proven NHL talent. Don't confuse the two. If one of the guys in the top 4 gets injured then the Penguins have a big problem. With the Penguins being a win now team, they need to get one more top 4 d-man, even if that means giving up a prospect or two.

I'd rather go through the growing pains with Despres now. I think he can be a capable 4/5 in due time. Engelland isn't a prospect and can play quite well against skilled players. Bortuzzo is as NHL ready as you get.

Top 6 wingers are hard to get. Top 4 D-men are damn near impossible to get. Short of bringing Gonch back, I don't see alot of options. But I'm not a GM and if Shero can find one using expendable assets then great.

Niskanen has earned a spot in the top 4 though. Unless we move him for Sid's winger, he's top 4 here.

 

[KIRK]

Niskanen is a better defender than Michalek on this team. We have a legit top 4. Still not seeing the need to add a D-man especially when we're so deep at that position. Trust the guys we have rather than bringing in a question mark.

Orpik and Martin turning their games around is huge.

Absolutely. Martin just seems so much more comfortable with Orpik. I heard people with the 'he played right side in NJ with Bryce Salvador' analogy. Maybe that's all it took.

Then again, with Martin, we're not going to know until the playoffs come, when the physical intensity gets kicked up even a few more notches.

 

[KIRK]

Matt Niskanen has upped his game significantly, IMO. He isn't playing that squishy soft game that I saw him play in Dallas and when he got here. He's physical on the puck, and is positionally sound. He's also making pretty good decisions with the puck. Sid may be right about Niskanen.

What did Sid say?

BTW, living in Dallas, I remember Nisky as a rookie. His partner was Zubov. Then, Zubov retired, and they expected Nisky to carry the top pairing. Total collapse in his game. Now, his game has been built back up, and he's back in his comfort zone with the type of partner with whom he enjoyed a lot of success.

 

[mpp9]

Ill add that Murray is not an upgrade over what we have. I'd rather stick with what we have. And to be honest, I wouldn't give TK up with the way he's playing this year short of bringing back a legit top line guy.