Brett Pesce or Matt Dumba

[Porter Stoutheart]

Huh. Alright then.

You can't get around that, eh? Gucci Kane Luvs Murica!!! Dumba is just part of the Woke Mob. SO....

(Where "you" != BoJ... but rather the previous poster!)

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Could be, but we don't know the truth either. All I know is Josi was the Captain, and he did next to nothing to put a stop to the attitudes that were running wild on this team for years. Poile didn't either for that matter.

Josi seems like a really nice guy and has got all the goods for being a "face of the franchise." He's also our best player. It makes a lot of sense why you want a guy like as your captain. But with the undercurrents of commitment, work ethic, buy-in issues that seem to have plagued us for years though would suggest he's either really ineffective at it at a locker room level or has not received sufficient coach/front office support, as you mention.

You CAN have a weak captain, I think, if you have strong enough players in the locker room to keep the laggards in line or you have a coaching/GM team that is willing to be heavy-handed. We didn't seem to have either and our other core players were probably exacerbating the problem.

You can't get around that, eh? Gucci Kane Luvs Murica!!! Dumba is just part of the Woke Mob. SO....

I'll go as far to say as I'm generally ambivalent over all the national anthem furor, but...

I just...

...yeah.

I got nothin.

 

[Edgework]

Fabbro obviously worked well with him. But given how far out of the way the team went to avoid reuniting them last season, I suspect it would be a little naive to hope for any change on that front.

Keep in mind that the quandary last year was “which LHD is gonna play on the right?” They first tried Ekholm, and during that experiment Josi played with Fabbro. That pairing was fine but McD-Ek was not.

Then they moved Josi to the right, on the thinking that he’s an offensive defender anyway so it’s not a big deal. Fabbro is also a RHD, so that eliminates them from skating together. Josi-McD was fine, so they left it for a long time.

Then Josi got concussed.

This year Josi should be back on the left since we have approximately four hundred RHD, so I would assume he will go back to skating with Fabbro (who, in fact, is now our most solid defensive defender, IMO).

Anyway point is, I don’t think they worked hard to keep Josi and Fabs apart so much as they worked hard to find a way to skate 4 left-handed defenders.

 

[triggrman]

Keep in mind that the quandary last year was “which LHD is gonna play on the right?” They first tried Ekholm, and during that experiment Josi played with Fabbro. That pairing was fine but McD-Ek was not.

Then they moved Josi to the right, on the thinking that he’s an offensive defender anyway so it’s not a big deal. Fabbro is also a RHD, so that eliminates them from skating together. Josi-McD was fine, so they left it for a long time.

Then Josi got concussed.

This year Josi should be back on the left since we have approximately four hundred RHD, so I would assume he will go back to skating with Fabbro (who, in fact, is now our most solid defensive defender, IMO).

Anyway point is, I don’t think they worked hard to keep Josi and Fabs apart so much as they worked hard to find a way to skate 4 left-handed defenders.

Agreed. A couple of things factored in as well.
Carrier only really clicked with Ekholm and the only player that could find any consistency with Lauzon was by far Fabbro.

I will add though, Fabbro and McD looked good to end the season.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Agreed. A couple of things factored in as well.
Carrier only really clicked with Ekholm and the only player that could find any consistency with Lauzon was by far Fabbro.

I will add though, Fabbro and McD looked good to end the season.

Huh, interesting that any pair Fabbro is on looks good. Maybe he's actually really good and very versatile. Maybe, that's someone you shouldn't consider trading at his age during a "remodeling".

I do appreciate Gus giving us a new term for the teams transition.

 

[Armourboy]

Agreed. A couple of things factored in as well.
Carrier only really clicked with Ekholm and the only player that could find any consistency with Lauzon was by far Fabbro.

I will add though, Fabbro and McD looked good to end the season.

Well the whole team looked better once the decision making process was more or less taken out of Hynes control due to injuries.

I'm hoping this season gives Trotz just enough time to make some good decisions on guys like Fabbro, otherwise that last couple of years of the Hynes/Poile tenure in hindsight could end up being worse than it already was.

 

[Kat Predator]

Could be, but we don't know the truth either. All I know is Josi was the Captain, and he did next to nothing to put a stop to the attitudes that were running wild on this team for years. Poile didn't either for that matter.

To be fair though, have you ever tried to get people to change themselves before? It's extremely difficult. I'd say basically impossible. Now if a person wants to change who they are, we can support them and help them in that process ... but just willing it on someone else seems futile to me.

 

[Armourboy]

To be fair though, have you ever tried to get people to change themselves before? It's extremely difficult. I'd say basically impossible. Now if a person wants to change who they are, we can support them and help them in that process ... but just willing it on someone else seems futile to me.

Considering it was never an issue with Fisher or Weber, I'm going to say it probably has something to do with Josi not having enough of that presence to get guys to not behave that way to start with, let alone change it.

 

[Kat Predator]

You can't get around that, eh? Gucci Kane Luvs Murica!!! Dumba is just part of the Woke Mob. SO....

(Where "you" != BoJ... but rather the previous poster!)

Everybody knows money buys happiness.

 

[Kat Predator]

Considering it was never an issue with Fisher or Weber, I'm going to say it probably has something to do with Josi not having enough of that presence to get guys to not behave that way to start with, let alone change it.

I think I follow what you're getting at here.

Yes, leadership is a tricky thing. Most people are not leaders TBH. A few people are natural leaders and just have a 6th sense about what to do in those crucial moments. Some people can become effective leaders.

And there are people that just aren't good at it. I've long wondered if Josi isn't really all that great at it. He's a great person, a great player, and all that. But as great as he is at many things, it's entire possible he isn't great at everything.

Honestly, the fact that Trotz just blew a ton of cap to reset the culture on the team is our answer. You don't replace the leaders (Hynes, Joey, etc.) take a significant financial hit and embrace the uncertainty if you think they are really good at the job.

 

[triggrman]

Huh, interesting that any pair Fabbro is on looks good. Maybe he's actually really good and very versatile. Maybe, that's someone you shouldn't consider trading at his age during a "remodeling".

I do appreciate Gus giving us a new term for the teams transition.

What the helm do we know, we’ve never even had a podcast

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think I follow what you're getting at here.

Yes, leadership is a tricky thing. Most people are not leaders TBH. A few people are natural leaders and just have a 6th sense about what to do in those crucial moments. Some people can become effective leaders.

And there are people that just aren't good at it. I've long wondered if Josi isn't really all that great at it. He's a great person, a great player, and all that. But as great as he is at many things, it's entire possible he isn't great at everything.

Honestly, the fact that Trotz just blew a ton of cap to reset the culture on the team is our answer. You don't replace the leaders (Hynes, Joey, etc.) take a significant financial hit and embrace the uncertainty if you think they are really good at the job.

TBH, I respect a guy who is sort of "anointed" a leader due to his awesomeness in other areas, but maybe isn't necessarily great at it, more than a certain other type of "leader". Some just THINK they are leaders. Want to be seen as leaders. Try to project that they are, try to "fake it until they make it" by adopting what they think are "standard leadership techniques"... but it just comes off as phony in the end. And it can take some time to filter out who is who, because you can't just take them at first impressions, you have to see them in action in crunch time.

I can think of a certain fighter pilot I knew back in Houston days who really seemed to me at first like one of these try-hard-overthetop-leadership-projection types and I had a terrible first impression of him. But it turned out over time he actually was the "natural born" type. Captain Kirk was probably like this to his crew! When you first meet them you think, oh man, that guy... but then when the pressure is on, you realize that they really do have The Right Stuff. And after that, they're your Captain. It's rarer than the fakes, though. And both are rarer than the ones who are just promoted into leadership roles by virtue of being "Good People" with technical area performance proficiencies.

 

[Kat Predator]

TBH, I respect a guy who is sort of "anointed" a leader due to his awesomeness in other areas, but maybe isn't necessarily great at it, more than a certain other type of "leader". Some just THINK they are leaders. Want to be seen as leaders. Try to project that they are, try to "fake it until they make it" by adopting what they think are "standard leadership techniques"... but it just comes off as phony in the end. And it can take some time to filter out who is who, because you can't just take them at first impressions, you have to see them in action in crunch time.

I can think of a certain fighter pilot I knew back in Houston days who really seemed to me at first like one of these try-hard-overthetop-leadership-projection types and I had a terrible first impression of him. But it turned out over time he actually was the "natural born" type. Captain Kirk was probably like this to his crew! When you first meet them you think, oh man, that guy... but then when the pressure is on, you realize that they really do have The Right Stuff. And after that, they're your Captain. It's rarer than the fakes, though. And both are rarer than the ones who are just promoted into leadership roles by virtue of being "Good People" with technical area performance proficiencies.

Having The Right Stuff is a rare enough trait that it doesn't exist in every organization. There's no fault in that. Just is. No shame in someone really trying to lead and trying to figure it out. Credit for the attempt, for sure. It's can be a draining, thankless chore with a cluster mob of cats.

And you can't change the stripes on the cats or force them to follow the leader. Ultimately it is entirely up to them. But it does help if the leader was born smelling like a can of tuna fish or at least can smell that way when things shake loose.

 

[wmupreds]

im not trying to get into politics but if you must know, go research his disrespectful and tasteless anthem kneeling antics


would love DeAngelo on the squad

This is a simply incredible post

 

[glenngineer]

Not me. Let the kids play. If guys like Tomasino, evangelista, glass, novak, Parssinen, can all build one last season it could be a good result with some solid defense. I’m still not happy about nyquist addition, just a waste of a roster spot. Getting rid of pylon Johansen freed up roll then we bring him in!?

But yeah we could use a top pair RD for sure.

You misunderstood my original comment. It's not about signing free agent forwards, it's about spending big money on high end forwards who can score, whether it's home grown talent, via trade or free agency. Spending big money on defensive defensemen does not help us achieve a Cup. You spend the money on guys that are either two way threats or are elite offensively and supplement with role players/specialists.

We're paying almost $16 million to Josi and McD and while McD brings the experience, he is a defensive minded player and while that's all fine and good, we don't need another guy like that making $7 million.

 

[maplepred]

You misunderstood my original comment. It's not about signing free agent forwards, it's about spending big money on high end forwards who can score, whether it's home grown talent, via trade or free agency. Spending big money on defensive defensemen does not help us achieve a Cup. You spend the money on guys that are either two way threats or are elite offensively and supplement with role players/specialists.

We're paying almost $16 million to Josi and McD and while McD brings the experience, he is a defensive minded player and while that's all fine and good, we don't need another guy like that making $7 million.

I mean I feel like big defensive defensemen do help you achieve a cup though, maybe even more so then those big snipers you speak of…
For example the leafs do not have that style of defenseman but have matthews, marner, nylander and Tavares. But no cups…

Vegas just won the cup and had that big defensive defenseman in Pietrangelo and not really major game breakers in guys like eichel and marchessault.