Confirmed Trade: [BOS/DET] Tyler Bertuzzi (50% retained) for 2024 1st round pick (top 10 protected) and 2025 4th round pick

[izlez]

Kasper has 23 points in 51 games.

Leo Carlsson -1 draft season player has 25 points in 43 games.

E. Pettersson had 56 points in 44 games in his +1 season.

Sorry not buying your great offensive season argument.


So again if the top of Detroits offense is build around Larkin/Raymond/Kasper is it scary enough?

So you're comparing Kasper's 18 YO season to the highest scoring 19 YO season in history to determine he's doing terrible?

 

[Hobnobs]

Kasper has 23 points in 51 games.

Leo Carlsson -1 draft season player has 25 points in 43 games.

E. Pettersson had 56 points in 44 games in his +1 season.

Sorry not buying your great offensive season argument.


So again if the top of Detroits offense is build around Larkin/Raymond/Kasper is it scary enough?

You think 18 year old Kasper should dominate against men in the SHL playing for a mediocre team with established players? He plays very well on Rögles third line with Hjalmarsson and Ludvig Larsson. So Im not sure what you are referring to with him?

Although Marcos play and injuries has promoted him up to the second line for tonights game. You could watch it?

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

So you're comparing Kasper's 18 YO season to the highest scoring 19 YO season in history to determine he's doing terrible?

At the age of 18, Pettersson was in the Allsvenkan.

Carlsson plays for one of the best teams in the SHL, Kasper plays for one of the worst. He's also ranked #1 Euro draft prospect by a few bureaus so it's not a very good comparison. Another one of those picks Detroit will never get to sniff as he'll be shipped off to some other city that isn't dead.

We'll see what Kasper does next year.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Looks like I've already been beaten to the punch, but to pile on:

		D+1
	P	G	P/G
Raymond	18	34	0.53
Eklund	14	29	0.48
Holtz	18	40	0.45
Kasper	23	51	0.45

Might need to re-evaluate expectations for young offensive player in Sweden

18-Year Old SHL Players - Regular Season Stats

I don't think that dude realizes that 18 year olds in the SHL very often get 3rd or 4th line minutes.

 

[SlapJack]

Detroit's rebuild has had about six years added to it by the fact that they have consistently gotten screwed by the draft lottery.

I've posted this before, but since 2013 50% of all top-4 draft picks have gone to the Atlantic, and 8/10 1OA picks, almost all of those picks to teams that already had better rosters than Detroit. The NJD alone have had 4 top-4 picks since 2013.

Detroit got f***ed. Not only were they not allowed any decent draft picks but the vast majority went to teams they are in direct competition with for the playoffs.

New Jersey has been very lucky in the lottery but to say Detroit was totally screwed is absolute bullshit.

2018: finished 5th last, ended up with 6th pick. Buffalo was last and won the lottery. Detroit picked Zadina who would've been their guy at 5 anyway

2019: finished 4th last, picked 6th again. Made a great pick in Seider whom I'd assume you wouldn't trade for anyone else in that draft not named Hughes and even then maybe not.

2020: finished dead last and ended up 4th overall. Would've picked Lafreniere at #1 if they won and how's that pick looking now? Alternatively, would you take Byfield over Raymond now?

2021: finished 5th last, picked 6th. Jury is still out but there's a lot of people who would prefer Edvinsson over Johnson.

Would you say Ottawa has been "lucky"? They've been worse than Detroit over that time span, had traded their pick that ended up in a year where they finished dead last where the luckiest thing to happen is that they dropped to 4th in that draft and can say they didn't trade #1 overall, dropped from 2nd to 4th in 2018, and dropped from 2nd to 5th in 2020. Only thing lucky was the pick they got from San Jose where SJ sucked and then won the 3rd overall selection.

Colorado was pissed as hell in 2017 having the worst record in years and falling to 4th, watching Philadelphia jump up from 12th to 2nd in the draft. Colorado got Makar, Philly got Nolan Patrick.

If you want to get lucky, try sucking harder and more often to get more lottery balls in more draft years. Buffalo picked in the top 10 for 10 consecutive years and finished last 3 times during that span. Yeah they won #1 twice and they got a franchise guy in Dahlin, but I bet they would choose to lose those 2 lotteries to win the other one they didn't.

Detroit's misfortune has zero attachment to the draft.

 

[Kibe]

I was talking forwards.

Larkin
Raymond
Kasper
What else is there?

Even from that list Larkin is good to great but I can’t call him a top tier franchise C.
Raymond looks more like a star than a superstar.
Kasper is having a terrible offensive season in the SHL.

So I just don’t see how Detroit is close to becoming a force in the East

Yes it's true that top tier franchise C is missing. Having Bert and Hronek in the roster will not help to get that. Having multiple first round picks or possibly trying to trade up in the 1st in the next couple of drafts might. On the wing there's actually some nice young pieces.

And as others said Kasper's season is far from terrible.

Also i think this was a good trade for both teams.

 

[BB88]

So you're comparing Kasper's 18 YO season to the highest scoring 19 YO season in history to determine he's doing terrible?

Well if they are the next Devils you’d probably want to see something better.

Under .5ppg is anything but impressive for high end prospect and every Detroit fan should probably chill and understand they aren’t as close to being a powerhouse as they think.

That forward group looks very light.
I apologize if that offends.

Larkin/Raymond/Kasper doesn’t scream elite like the Devils group or many other teams

 

[Bfan14]

They'd have to sign one, because their prospects pipeline is thin. You have to give something to get something.

Pastrnak hasn't really played much with Bergeron lately. They aren't going to go from one of the best regular season teams of all time to bottom feeders just because Bergeron and Krejci leave

I was talking forwards.

Larkin
Raymond
Kasper
What else is there?

Even from that list Larkin is good to great but I can’t call him a top tier franchise C.
Raymond looks more like a star than a superstar.
Kasper is having a terrible offensive season in the SHL.

So I just don’t see how Detroit is close to becoming a force in the East

From what I've seen Kasper has been having a pretty decent SHL aeason?

 

[BB88]

Pastrnak hasn't really played much with Bergeron lately. They aren't going to go from one of the best regular season teams of all time to bottom feeders just because Bergeron and Krejci leave


From what I've seen Kasper has been having a pretty decent SHL aeason?

He’s long away from being a core player in the NHL, if he even ever gets to that level.

& even if he does it still leaves that forward group light.
Detroit has zerp franchise forwards yet they are soon a wagon

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

New Jersey has been very lucky in the lottery but to say Detroit was totally screwed is absolute bul.

Detroit's misfortune has zero attachment to the draft.

Ottawa had 23 more points than Detroit the year they leapfrogged Detroit to get Stutzle, who is now better than any player on Detroit's roster. Detroit was going to draft Stutzle if they ended up in any of the first three slots, but instead they got leapfrogged by 3 teams with a combined total of 88 more points.

Ottawa also held on to their spot in 2018 to get Brady Tkachuk, who is also better than any player on Detroit's roster.

You can play this game with pretty much every team in the Atlantic since 2013. Detroit was arguably a bottom-5 team in the NHL for 8 straight years and ended up with one top-4 pick and dropped more spots than any other NHL team.

Seider is pretty much the only case where Detroit was better off for drafting in their spot.

 

[Hobnobs]

He’s long away from being a core player in the NHL, if he even ever gets to that level.

& even if he does it still leaves that forward group light.
Detroit has zerp franchise forwards yet they are soon a wagon

Like I said. Maybe you should actually watch the kid play?

 

[McRpro]

Ottawa had 23 more points than Detroit the year they leapfrogged Detroit to get Stutzle, who is now better than any player on Detroit's roster.

Just wanna point out that Ottawa didn't leapfrog Detroit with their pick. It was the San Jose pick that was one of the lottery winners.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

New Jersey has been very lucky in the lottery but to say Detroit was totally screwed is absolute bullshit.

*whole post detailing how Detroit lost draft position, which is them getting screwed in the lotto.*

Detroit's misfortune has zero attachment to the draft.

This chart is just through 2020. It doesn't show that NJD jumped up more places as of 2022.

 

[Hobnobs]

Just wanna point out that Ottawa didn't leapfrog Detroit with their pick. It was the San Jose pick that was one of the lottery winners.

Both wings and Sens fell in that draft. But several teams did leap frog the wings which I think was his point even though he was wrong about the pick not being Stutzle.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Just wanna point out that Ottawa didn't leapfrog Detroit with their pick. It was the San Jose pick that was one of the lottery winners.

San Jose had 24 more points than Detroit that year.

 

[Hobnobs]

San Jose had 24 more points than Detroit that year.

Yes but they were 3rd from last. Whats messed up is a playoff bubble team like Rags picking 1st overall. But yea...

 

[McRpro]

San Jose had 24 more points than Detroit that year.

Yes I know that. Just correcting what you said, that's all.

 

[SlapJack]

This chart is just through 2020. It doesn't show that NJD jumped up more places as of 2022.

View attachment 666037

Does this chart show anything of significance? Philadelphia is in first due to one draft where they ended up with a massive bust and the next 3 picks are all stars. Ottawa is only a -5 to Detroit's tear worthy -8, but Ottawa was also -3 in 2019 and they had traded their pick therefore getting absolutely nothing. Buffalo is also -5 but won the lottery twice

There a lot of luck around drafting. You get a high pick in a shit draft, it looks bad you didn't get a stud. You grab the eventual best player after several teams pass on him, you're a genius for being lucky. Some teams win the lottery and most don't.

The only season Detroit finished in the bottom 3 was 2020 and it was ridiculous how the Rangers won, but that's the only year where they "rightfully" should have had the #1 pick. And Lafreniere was not going to make their fortunes much better than what they ended up with.

 

[Bfan14]

He’s long away from being a core player in the NHL, if he even ever gets to that level.

& even if he does it still leaves that forward group light.
Detroit has zerp franchise forwards yet they are soon a wagon

Currently no franchise players, but a truck load of picks to go with their already top 3-5 prospect pool.

If any team can make a trade for an impact forward, its them

 

[RedHawkDown]

Does this chart show anything of significance? Philadelphia is in first due to one draft where they ended up with a massive bust and the next 3 picks are all stars. Ottawa is only a -5 to Detroit's tear worthy -8, but Ottawa was also -3 in 2019 and they had traded their pick therefore getting absolutely nothing. Buffalo is also -5 but won the lottery twice

There a lot of luck around drafting. You get a high pick in a shit draft, it looks bad you didn't get a stud. You grab the eventual best player after several teams pass on him, you're a genius for being lucky. Some teams win the lottery and most don't.

The only season Detroit finished in the bottom 3 was 2020 and it was ridiculous how the Rangers won, but that's the only year where they "rightfully" should have had the #1 pick. And Lafreniere was not going to make their fortunes much better than what they ended up with.

Once again Detroit had Stutzle ranked first and weren’t going to pick Laf. But keep ignoring everything objective

 

[SlapJack]

Ottawa had 23 more points than Detroit the year they leapfrogged Detroit to get Stutzle, who is now better than any player on Detroit's roster. Detroit was going to draft Stutzle if they ended up in any of the first three slots, but instead they got leapfrogged by 3 teams with a combined total of 88 more points.

Ottawa also held on to their spot in 2018 to get Brady Tkachuk, who is also better than any player on Detroit's roster.

You can play this game with pretty much every team in the Atlantic since 2013. Detroit was arguably a bottom-5 team in the NHL for 8 straight years and ended up with one top-4 pick and dropped more spots than any other NHL team.

Seider is pretty much the only case where Detroit was better off for drafting in their spot.

As pointed out earlier, Stützle was not Ottawa's win, it was San Jose's. The year they drafted Tkachuk, they dropped 2 spots. Sorry if he's better than anyone on Detroit's roster but the luck there had nothing to do with the lottery and more to do with Montreal leap frogging them to take...Kotkaniemi. Thank you Montreal. Half the Ottawa fans were pissed with the selection of Tkachuk, they wanted Zadina.

Detroit could've picked Quinn Hughes. They could've picked Necas or Suzuki. They didn't and now it's bad luck.

And I don't know where you're going with the bottom 5 for 8 years thing. Good lord...

Lottery positions last 8 years
2015: made the playoffs
2016: made the playoffs
2017: 6th
2018: 5th
2019: 4th
2020: 1st
2021: 5th
2022: 8th

Overall record over that time is 6th. Being "like" a bottom 5 team doesn't automatically award you top picks in good draft years and only one time over that 8 year span have they finished in the bottom 3 where the odds are significant.

Maybe what should have been done this year is not sign a bunch of vets to hope them out of futility to that plateau of mediocrity. Now they're out of play for the top guys this year in a draft that's been known for years to be strong. Instead they went for the playoffs when it wasn't quite time to do so.

 

[SlapJack]

Once again Detroit had Stutzle ranked first and weren’t going to pick Laf. But keep ignoring everything objective

Nobody in the NHL was picking anyone other than Laf. I'm sure you heard a rumour from some guy who knows a guy that said yeah, Stützle was their pick. All the talk prior to the draft was that Detroit was leaning towards Perfetti at #4 and that didn't happen either.

If they were really that smart, they would've picked Sanderson instead of Raymond.

 

[Seanaconda]

lol

Bertuzzi: "I would say I don't tape my stick, it's more of I have a sticker that kind of feels like sandpaper, it's pretty easy to put on. I'm kind of lazy taping sticks so when I found out that I could put this on my stick, I was all in."

Q&A with Wings' Bertuzzi | Detroit Red Wings

Find out forward's favorite ice cream flavor and more

www.nhl.com

I've used the sticker things for the blade but I think it's weird leaving the hole at the top of the stick open lol

 

[RedHawkDown]

Nobody in the NHL was picking anyone other than Laf. I'm sure you heard a rumour from some guy who knows a guy that said yeah, Stützle was their pick. All the talk prior to the draft was that Detroit was leaning towards Perfetti at #4 and that didn't happen either.

If they were really that smart, they would've picked Sanderson instead of Raymond.

Like you heard a rumor from a guy who knows a guy that Perfetti was their pick at 4?

We need Raymond more than Sanderson, so no thanks.

As pointed out earlier, Stützle was not Ottawa's win, it was San Jose's. The year they drafted Tkachuk, they dropped 2 spots. Sorry if he's better than anyone on Detroit's roster but the luck there had nothing to do with the lottery and more to do with Montreal leap frogging them to take...Kotkaniemi. Thank you Montreal. Half the Ottawa fans were pissed with the selection of Tkachuk, they wanted Zadina.

Detroit could've picked Quinn Hughes. They could've picked Necas or Suzuki. They didn't and now it's bad luck.

And I don't know where you're going with the bottom 5 for 8 years thing. Good lord...

Lottery positions last 8 years
2015: made the playoffs
2016: made the playoffs
2017: 6th
2018: 5th
2019: 4th
2020: 1st
2021: 5th
2022: 8th

Overall record over that time is 6th. Being "like" a bottom 5 team doesn't automatically award you top picks in good draft years and only one time over that 8 year span have they finished in the bottom 3 where the odds are significant.

Maybe what should have been done this year is not sign a bunch of vets to hope them out of futility to that plateau of mediocrity. Now they're out of play for the top guys this year in a draft that's been known for years to be strong. Instead they went for the playoffs when it wasn't quite time to do so.

A lot of shit talk for a team 1 point ahead of the terrible Red Wings, and that’s after our 6 game losing streak.

 

[SlapJack]

Like you heard a rumor from a guy who knows a guy that Perfetti was their pick at 4?

We need Raymond more than Sanderson, so no thanks.


A lot of shit talk for a team 1 point ahead of the terrible Red Wings, and that’s after our 6 game losing streak.

Shit talk? Pointing out Detroit hasn't been handed a superstar player on a player is shit talk? Been a lot of whining about how the Wings are getting the shaft 5 mins into a rebuild after 25 years of consecutive playoff appearances and 4 cups during that span. You gotta pay your dues before you bounce back up again