Confirmed with Link: Borowiecki signs three-year extension

[Cosmix]

With a young team like we have it is important to have guys like boro around. guys who will do whatever it takes, and who stand up for team mates. it can affect the whole team in a positive way. not just about skill with the puck.

I strongly agree with you!

However, whether the team is young or old, you need players who can play a physical playoff style at all times. That does not mean taking penalties and putting your team on the PK. It does mean standing up for your team mates if the opponent starts to target them or play a physical game. Borowiecki brings that to the team. We only have one other player who does that, Neil. Phillips has NEVER done that and it is one of his failings, in my opinion. Carkner did and still does; i miss him greatly. Kassian was simply not good enough to play the game. Gryba and Cowen might take a lesson from Borowiecki's style of play. It would make opposing forwards very wary of them and make them better in my opinion. I hope the team defensemen start to play more physically in their own zone and step up for hits when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[HSF]

good signing at worst he is a bottom pairing D at a real good price

 

[Xspyrit]

Did you watch Cowen last year? He belonged in the AHL. So yes, I'll say his $1.5 million was overpaying him. Same for Greening. Belonged in the AHL the way he played.

And yes, using the body to separate opponents from the puck is great, but Boro goes for the big hits at the expense of defensive positioning and puck retrieval. He goes for the big hits for show. Then there's his penchant for fighting and taking minor penalties. That's not good, especially for a defenceman in this day and age. Even worse when you consider this team had a problem taking too many penalties last year.

As for the "what have you done for me lately" attitude, let's remember Borowiecki hasn't even played a full season in the NHL. And yet they give him an extension and decent pay raise based on having good feelings about him and liking him as a person? In a results based business, that's bad management.

Yes I watched Cowen and his bad play was heavily amplified by cognitive bias and scapegoating as usual. People are always looking for someone to blame and they sure weren't going to pick on Karlsson who was easily worse defensively. Cowen made some bad decisions and struggled with his mobility (missed 1 year because of injury, then missed camp in his sophomore season), but overall he wasn't even close to be the worst defensively on the team. A few bad plays glorified his shortcomings, I remember that 2 on 1 against Chicago, Cowen made a bad decision and people were heavy on Cowen after that

Saying Cowen belongs to the AHL is absurd and ignorant. You are basically putting YOUR opinion above those of tons of people in the real world who live off hockey (executives, staff, medias, players). Cowen would have a spot on 29 other NHL teams

Your assessment of Greening is closer to reality but still... You need to pay a few years of NHL center to have a better grasp of reality. Greening didn't produce points and was a bit overwhelming but he still looked like a NHL player. It's not Alfie/Karlsson or bust and someday, Sens fans will have to get over that misconception.

So I'm sorry but I'm not buying your opinion because an opinion is just an opinion and frankly our opinions are not much worth in the universe. I prefer to go by facts and evidence. Just read Micklebot's posts. I have not much more to add to what he has already said. Managing is also projecting, and in that case they project Boro as a safe player who will easily be worth his contract. And with the cap rising over 70 millions soon, they might save a bit of coin in the end. It's called wise management with a calculated risk. Of course, it could blow up in their faces, but the difference between 1.1 and the future going salary for depth players will be ridiculous either way. The risk is small, very small.

 

[Cosmix]

I look forward to watching everyone change direction after the watch Boro play for a full season.

Let's break this down. You have three puck movers (Karlsson, Wiercioch, Ceci) and five stay at home guys (Methot, Cowen, Gryba, Phillips, Boro).

Down in the minors you have puck movers (Claesson, Wideman) you may be able to include Wikstrand in that mix. For stay at home guys you have Sdao right now. Rutkowski is a project but is more of a two-way guy.

As it stands right now, losing a player like Methot to trade who is UFA and has value would be a smart move. You have another big bruiser in Sdao coming up behind Boro, Ben Harpur is around the corner.

The point here, is that the team is well balanced and has the ability to back fill with prospects if needed.

I have a strong feeling that you will find Cowen, Gryba, Boro, and Sdao as the defensive d-men core in a few years when Phillips retires. Trading Methot to get a solid winger or even picks at this point would make sense.

All the young Ds won't work out to be NHL calibre, so i do not want to lose Methot. We need big mobile defensemen to counter the fast skilled forwards on other teams. I have not seen any evidence so far that Cowen, Wiercioch, Gryba, Borowiecki or Sdao can match his mobility.

Only Cowen, Wiercioch and Ceci have shown enough to me at this time to indicate that they can some day potentially play on the Second pairing. We only have one top pairing D man right now.

I am hoping to see progress next year from Cowen, Wiercioch, Ceci, and hopefully Gryba and Borowiecki to give the Senators a better set of defensemen and reduce the goals against. However, that will require better goal tending, better back-checking by the forwards, fewer penalties, etc.

 

[Cosmix]

I hope we sign Methot. Half of our D would be local boys.

I agree with signing Methot, but having a better team requires better players. However, it would be nice to have Claud Giroux on the team (former Gatineau Olympiques player).

 

[FlyingJ]

I kinda like this move. All we've heard about Boro is that he's a gem in the locker room. That's exactly what we need, more guys like that.

Yeah, I also hear Clarkson is a gem in the locker room too. True, salaries aren't comparable in that case, but my point is who cares if he's good in the locker room is he can't pull his own weight on the ice? Borowiecki's NHL experience last year was heavily sheltered minutes, and a low average ice time even for a 3rd pairing d-man. So basically, he's a face-puncher. And we now have 4 years of him taking a roster sport to look forward to. Have we all forgotten the performance of the Leafs with career face-punchers like Orr and McLaren hogging 2 roster spots? Neil falls into this category too, though in the past he could at least take a regular shift and play decently.

I hope I'm wrong and Murray's gamble pays off, but based on all the information available, I'm not impressed. It's even worse when you consider this is basically a cap floor team. I'd rather take the over $3 million guaranteed to Phillips and Borowiecki this year, and $3.6 million next year, and get a competent defenceman.

 

[SixthSens]

Met Boro and Turris today at Canadian Tire in Kingston, Boro looks like he could eat anyone here for breakfast. Dude is jacked.

 

[FlyingJ]

Yes I watched Cowen and his bad play was heavily amplified by cognitive bias and scapegoating as usual. People are always looking for someone to blame and they sure weren't going to pick on Karlsson who was easily worse defensively. Cowen made some bad decisions and struggled with his mobility (missed 1 year because of injury, then missed camp in his sophomore season), but overall he wasn't even close to be the worst defensively on the team. A few bad plays glorified his shortcomings, I remember that 2 on 1 against Chicago, Cowen made a bad decision and people were heavy on Cowen after that

Saying Cowen belongs to the AHL is absurd and ignorant. You are basically putting YOUR opinion above those of tons of people in the real world who live off hockey (executives, staff, medias, players). Cowen would have a spot on 29 other NHL teams.

Yeah, that cognitive bias can work both ways. Like with management, who don't want the embarrassment of using a 9th overall pick on a fringe NHLer, along with giving him a 4 year $12.4 million contract (not to mention reportedly offering a 7 year $28 (?) million deal before that). Cowen has draft pedigree and a sizable contract, that will give him more leeway than he deserves, and we saw it last year. When a good shift for Cowen constituted not having an on-ice blunder, that's just sad.

IMO, his mobility wasn't the biggest issue last year (though he did get skated around regularly), it was his decision making. My favourite Cowen play from last year was the game late in the year against Calgary where he was on the PK and chased a Flame (a forward) outside the Sens' own zone. Said forward did a drop pass off the boards back to another Flame, who now faced a 4 on 3 situation due to Cowen being in the neutral zone and pretty close to centre ice rather than his spot down low on the PK after chasing the aforementioned player.

And really, 29 other teams? You think he'd have gotten a regular shift last yea on Chicago with Keith, Seabrook, Leddy, Hjalmarsson, Oduya, and Rosival? Or LA with Doughty, Martinez, Voynov, Greene, Muzzin, and Mitchell, with Regehr as a number 7? On a non-playoff team like Vancouver with Edler, Bieksa, Garrison, Hamhuis, Tanev, he'd have been #6 at best, not getting ice time over others like he did with Wiercioch and Gryba here.

Alas, I'm in an airport, and wi-fi is crap. Otherwise, I'd search out numerous gifs from throughout the year of Cowen screwing the pooch on a regular basis.

 

[StefanW]

Met Boro and Turris today at Canadian Tire in Kingston, Boro looks like he could eat anyone here for breakfast. Dude is jacked.

Karlsson is too. We have a few guys putting on some major muscle during off seasons. Maybe that will rub off on Turris a bit.

 

[FlyingJ]

Cowen certainly had his ups and downs last year. I'd argue you're being too harsh on a guy who managed to be an even player on a dreadful defence, put up his best pts per game, had a career high in goals, lead the D in hits, and had the 2nd lowest ES GA/60 all while logging over 20 mins per night.

Ya, +/- is so flawed, so let's just not use it. As for ES GA/60, you sure that's not due to some sheltering going on from MacLean once he realized Cowen was not going to be a competent top 4 defenceman?

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Ya, +/- is so flawed, so let's just not use it. As for ES GA/60, you sure that's not due to some sheltering going on from MacLean once he realized Cowen was not going to be a competent top 4 defenceman?

Speaking of cognitive bias....

 

[Qward]

Met him today. Very nice guy, was great when talking to my son.

 

[Cosmix]

Yeah, I also hear Clarkson is a gem in the locker room too. True, salaries aren't comparable in that case, but my point is who cares if he's good in the locker room is he can't pull his own weight on the ice? Borowiecki's NHL experience last year was heavily sheltered minutes, and a low average ice time even for a 3rd pairing d-man. So basically, he's a face-puncher. And we now have 4 years of him taking a roster sport to look forward to. Have we all forgotten the performance of the Leafs with career face-punchers like Orr and McLaren hogging 2 roster spots? Neil falls into this category too, though in the past he could at least take a regular shift and play decently.

I hope I'm wrong and Murray's gamble pays off, but based on all the information available, I'm not impressed. It's even worse when you consider this is basically a cap floor team. I'd rather take the over $3 million guaranteed to Phillips and Borowiecki this year, and $3.6 million next year, and get a competent defenceman.

I get your point and i hope both Phillips and Borowiecki turn out to be decent 5, 6, 7 defensemen over the next 2 and 4 years, respectively. Yes, both contracts are gambles in a sense. I certainly don't want to see the team lose a higher quality defenseman, such as Methot, due to budget considerations when the $3.6 m you identified could have been used to sign him instead. Being a low budget team is one thing. Mis-using the budget dollars is quite another.

 

[FlyingJ]

Speaking of cognitive bias....

Seriously, what was Cowen's quality of competition? Would look, but the wi-fi in this terminal is sloooooow.

I do recall Cowen seeming to not be a disaster when paired with Karlsson, who often times has the puck on his stick and is attacking the opposing team. Go figure, Cowen struggled in his own end and with handling the puck. Hmmm...

 

[Cosmix]

Karlsson is too. We have a few guys putting on some major muscle during off seasons. Maybe that will rub off on Turris a bit.

I hope the added muscle does not slow him down.

 

[FlyingJ]

I get your point and i hope both Phillips and Borowiecki turn out to be decent 5, 6, 7 defensemen over the next 2 and 4 years, respectively. Yes, both contracts are gambles in a sense. I certainly don't want to see the team lose a higher quality defenseman, such as Methot, due to budget considerations when the $3.6 m you identified could have been used to sign him instead. Being a low budget team is one thing. Mis-using the budget dollars is quite another.

Bingo. Or more specifically, mis-using budget dollars when you're a low budget team. While it would be nice if Boro and Phillips could be decent 5, 6, or 7s (and I have major doubts on the latter given his atrocious performance last year combined with age), the Sens' problem is the lack of legit top 4 defencemen. It's basically Karlsson and Methot right now, with Ceci, Cowen (despite his trainwreck play last year) and Wiercioch having the potential, but no proof of them being there now. And given MacLean's tendency to shaft Wiercioch, who can move the puck well and had decent advanced stats, last year for Cowen or Gryba because those 2 can hit...it doesn't fill me with hope.

 

[Micklebot]

Seriously, what was Cowen's quality of competition? Would look, but the wi-fi in this terminal is sloooooow.

I do recall Cowen seeming to not be a disaster when paired with Karlsson, who often times has the puck on his stick and is attacking the opposing team. Go figure, Cowen struggled in his own end and with handling the puck. Hmmm...

Middle of the pack for Ottawa

I think the problem is Cowen had some particularly egregious mistakes, and those are the ones that stick in your mind. Most of the time he was fine, he just had some terrible stretches that stood out.

 

[FlyingJ]

Middle of the pack for Ottawa

I think the problem is Cowen had some particularly egregious mistakes, and those are the ones that stick in your mind. Most of the time he was fine, he just had some terrible stretches that stood out.

Perhaps, but having so many mistakes that stick out isn't great. I don't think a team should put up with a defensive defenceman whose play is average at the best of times, but is prone to a major blunders that people remember so clearly. And there were a number of them.

His puck skills were also really bad last year. Man couldn't make a solid outlet pass or carry the puck well at all.

 

[Micklebot]

Perhaps, but having so many mistakes that stick out isn't great. I don't think a team should put up with a defensive defenceman whose play is average at the best of times, but is prone to a major blunders that people remember so clearly. And there were a number of them.

His puck skills were also really bad last year. Man couldn't make a solid outlet pass or carry the puck well at all.

I'm not saying he had a great year, just that you suggestion that he wasn't worth the 1.5 salary and that he should have been in the AHL is hyperbole.

He was inconsistent, but that's to be expected when dealing with young D with under 200 games played.

 

[Qward]

Met Boro and Turris today at Canadian Tire in Kingston, Boro looks like he could eat anyone here for breakfast. Dude is jacked.

Who were you? I was the guy with the heritage classic jersey and red hat and my son matched me.

 

[FlyingJ]

I'm not saying he had a great year, just that you suggestion that he wasn't worth the 1.5 salary and that he should have been in the AHL is hyperbole.

He was inconsistent, but that's to be expected when dealing with young D with under 200 games played.

Let's call it as it was: Cowen was bad last year. Average at his best, atrocious at his worst. And while you can debate him being worth $1.5 million, I would still say he belonged in the AHL, where he would have faced lesser competition and possibly built his game and confidence back up.

But back to the topic of the thread, namely Borowiecki and the unwarranted extension he got. Travis Yost had a good piece on it.

And despite this, so many people are sure he's a legitimate NHLer? Including management, who seem smitten with his character and hitting alone. Intangibles that frankly count for diddly-squat if you can't play well. And that he's a local kid. Yeeeesh.

 

[BonkTastic]

Travis Yost had a good piece on it.

Here's the best quote in the whole piece, which sums up my feelings about the extension pretty thoroughly, I think:

"If there's a question of whether or not a player is good enough to compete in the National Hockey League, the answer should never be 'let's find out by first giving him a three-year extension'."

 

[Busboy]

Here's the best quote in the whole piece, which sums up my feelings about the extension pretty thoroughly, I think:

"If there's a question of whether or not a player is good enough to compete in the National Hockey League, the answer should never be 'let's find out by first giving him a three-year extension'."

I didn't read Yost's piece but I think management is not too concerned over him being an NHL defender.

We let Kassian walk and Neil is declining. This signing was made to give us some depth in the toughness department.

I see merit in having our toughest player in a 7D spot instead of a 13th forward who will never play in the playoffs.

Knowing Murray, we'll probably have 8 NHL D over those three years and Boro will be in and out of the lineup for added toughness. At the amount he was signed at, he is nowhere near a liability for the budget when you factor in his toughness.

I'd rather have Boro at 1 million than Kassian or any other heavyweight at league minimum. That's the key thing to remember here.

 

[sens83]

Met him today. Very nice guy, was great when talking to my son.

Just to give you an idea of the kind of player/person Boro is off the ice. My wife and I went to Atlantic City a few years back for the AHL All-Star game when Boro was on the team. I was walking up the boardwalk with my B-Sens Calder Cup jersey on and Boro and his father walked right next to us. He stopped came up to me and shook my hand for a moment. He didn't have to, but he went out of his way to do so.

 

[OgieO]

Yeah, I also hear Clarkson is a gem in the locker room too. True, salaries aren't comparable in that case, but my point is who cares if he's good in the locker room is he can't pull his own weight on the ice? Borowiecki's NHL experience last year was heavily sheltered minutes, and a low average ice time even for a 3rd pairing d-man. So basically, he's a face-puncher. And we now have 4 years of him taking a roster sport to look forward to. Have we all forgotten the performance of the Leafs with career face-punchers like Orr and McLaren hogging 2 roster spots? Neil falls into this category too, though in the past he could at least take a regular shift and play decently.

I hope I'm wrong and Murray's gamble pays off, but based on all the information available, I'm not impressed. It's even worse when you consider this is basically a cap floor team. I'd rather take the over $3 million guaranteed to Phillips and Borowiecki this year, and $3.6 million next year, and get a competent defenceman.

Difference between Clarkson and Boro is that Boro will be paid appropriately for his role. On a scale of 1-10, this "gamble" is a 1. He paid #6#7 $ to a guy that looks like a #6#7 dman.