Confirmed with Link: Blues trade Kostin to Edmonton for Samorukov

[Oberyn]

As a comparison to Kostin, look at Nichushkin. Both are big, strong, good skating Russian wingers. Nichushkin was a much higher pick and had much higher expectations. But he never fulfilled them as a youngster. He never hit .5 ppg in the NHL until last year when he was 26, He even went back to the KHL for a little bit. But he was a vital part of Colorado's 2nd level of talent on their cup team last year and is a ppg this season in albeit limited games due to injury.

Big players take longer to develop. Giving up on them for players with less potential who are also struggling is just dumb. We gave up on Tage, thankfully we got something good out of it. But look at him now. It took until he was 23/24 with over 100 NHL games to do antything, and now he is a top player in the league.

Development isn't straight line and isn't the same for all players. Saying a player is XX age so they are what they are has proven to be not true again and again. Even if it were true, why would you trade a player who hasn't hit on their potential for one with less potential who is further from their potential and the same age. It makes no sense. Saying Samorukov was a position of need is BS because if we needed him so bad, how come we haven't used him? Kostin would have been in NHL games if we kept him with our injuries. We have been just as injured on D, and we have not seen Samorukov.

I agree that power forwards take a while to develop and Kostin was very raw when we drafted him. I thought he was passable in his time in the NHL but felt like there was potential for him to be more impactful. So far he's been looking much better in Edmonton but I always prefer a larger sample size when looking at any young player on a new team. That said, I wasn't a huge fan of the trade and would have preferred to keep Kostin.

I don't think it's fair to say we gave up on Thompson. The Blues needed a 1C and ROR was clearly Armstrong's target. A very good prospect was always expected to be going the other way to Buffalo and for the Blues it was would be either Thomas, Kyrou, or Thompson. At the time, Thomas and Kyrou were held in higher regard within the Blues organization but it certainly doesn't mean Thompson was seen as a failed pick. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say the Blues gave up on Thompson, it was more so that he was lower on the totem pole than other prospects. Luckily for the Blues, the two aforementioned prospects have both panned out to be top level players though Thompson has really been separating himself from the pack this season.

 

[Xerloris]

I agree that power forwards take a while to develop and Kostin was very raw when we drafted him. I thought he was passable in his time in the NHL but felt like there was potential for him to be more impactful. So far he's been looking much better in Edmonton but I always prefer a larger sample size when looking at any young player on a new team. That said, I wasn't a huge fan of the trade and would have preferred to keep Kostin.

I don't think it's fair to say we gave up on Thompson. The Blues needed a 1C and ROR was clearly Armstrong's target. A very good prospect was always expected to be going the other way to Buffalo and for the Blues it was would be either Thomas, Kyrou, or Thompson. At the time, Thomas and Kyrou were held in higher regard within the Blues organization but it certainly doesn't mean Thompson was seen as a failed pick. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say the Blues gave up on Thompson, it was more so that he was lower on the totem pole than other prospects. Luckily for the Blues, the two aforementioned prospects have both panned out to be top level players though Thompson has really been separating himself from the pack this season.

I tend to agree, I doubt Thompson would have been traded if it was not for a very important need and a very good player at that.

 

[Brian39]

If we are going to talk about giving up on Kostin too early, then I think we have to acknowledge that the D man we got for him is a month younger. If 23 is too young to give up on a power forward, then it is too young to give up on a D man.

I think Kostin was given plenty of chances from our organization. He had an outside shot to make the team in 2019/20, he stayed in Russia for the COVID year, he made the team last year (then struggled and got sent down after 40 NHL games and some healthy scratches) and then didn't make the NHL roster this year.

It's not like he was ripping up other leagues and couldn't translate success to the NHL. He had 6 points in 17 regular season AHL games last year and then 8 points in 18 playoff games (that was tied for 10th on a good AHL team). He's never scored more than 13 goals in a year as a pro and never had more than 31 points as a pro at any level. This is his D+7 season and he'd played 287 pro games before the trade. He scored 117 points in those games. 134 points in 329 games if you include playoffs. That's a 33 point pace and all but 46 of the games were outside the NHL.

You have to earn an NHL spot and Kostin didn't do that. He was less productive in the AHL last year than he was two years earlier. He was showing no upward trajectory and squandered multiple chances. I don't think we gave up on him too early. I think he either needed a change of scenery or is on a hot streak that isn't going to last. He's only got 4 assists through his 29 NHL games and his 9 goals on 38 shots is good for 23.7%. Are we having this conversation if he was shooting 15% and had 5 or 6 goals? I'm not sure we would.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't think it's fair to say we gave up on Thompson. The Blues needed a 1C and ROR was clearly Armstrong's target.

I meant the posters on HF Boards gave up on him. We laughed and laughed at how we stole ROR and Buf got nothing. Now ROR is aging and Thompson is beasting. Most are still happy with the trade and cup it led to, but it's not as funny now.

If we are going to talk about giving up on Kostin too early, then I think we have to acknowledge that the D man we got for him is a month younger. If 23 is too young to give up on a power forward, then it is too young to give up on a D man.

I think Kostin was given plenty of chances from our organization. He had an outside shot to make the team in 2019/20, he stayed in Russia for the COVID year, he made the team last year (then struggled and got sent down after 40 NHL games and some healthy scratches) and then didn't make the NHL roster this year.

It's not like he was ripping up other leagues and couldn't translate success to the NHL. He had 6 points in 17 regular season AHL games last year and then 8 points in 18 playoff games (that was tied for 10th on a good AHL team). He's never scored more than 13 goals in a year as a pro and never had more than 31 points as a pro at any level. This is his D+7 season and he'd played 287 pro games before the trade. He scored 117 points in those games. 134 points in 329 games if you include playoffs. That's a 33 point pace and all but 46 of the games were outside the NHL.

You have to earn an NHL spot and Kostin didn't do that. He was less productive in the AHL last year than he was two years earlier. He was showing no upward trajectory and squandered multiple chances. I don't think we gave up on him too early. I think he either needed a change of scenery or is on a hot streak that isn't going to last. He's only got 4 assists through his 29 NHL games and his 9 goals on 38 shots is good for 23.7%. Are we having this conversation if he was shooting 15% and had 5 or 6 goals? I'm not sure we would.

I said in my post that Samorukov was the same age (I don't view a month as a big deal). But he has less potential, and has not forced his way onto an NHL team basically at all. Kostin has at least showed flashes of potential at the NHL level.

Samorukov played one game and got owned twice and stapled to the bench. He was given as many chances to make the Oilers as Kostin was to make the Blues. Its not even arguable that making our forward roster with the depth we have is harder than making the Oilers D which is fairly bad. Kostin lost his role to Toropchenko who is was the better 4th line mucker. That doesn't mean he was the worse player. It just meant we had no top 9 roles and he didn't commit himself to the grinding philosophy we wanted from the 4th line.

I disagree that Kostin failed to earn an NHL spot. I feel the Blues failed to acknowledge he earned it. Kostin's career .32 ppg average puts him around 26 point season with less than 10 minutes career ATOI. That is far better than any of the guys we held on to are doing for us this year. Pitlick, Walker, Toropchenko are all less thean .2 ppg this season. Neighbours despite his hot last several games is less ppg thank Kostin in a good bit more ATOI. Acciari who everyone is thrilled with is averaging a few more points over a season, but he is also getting 150% as much ATOI. So is the fact Kostin didn't make the team on him, or is it on the coaching staff for trying to stick a square peg in a round hole?

 

[joe galiba]

I meant the posters on HF Boards gave up on him. We laughed and laughed at how we stole ROR and Buf got nothing. Now ROR is aging and Thompson is beasting. Most are still happy with the trade and cup it led to, but it's not as funny now.




I said in my post that Samorukov was the same age (I don't view a month as a big deal). But he has less potential, and has not forced his way onto an NHL team basically at all. Kostin has at least showed flashes of potential at the NHL level.

Samorukov played one game and got owned twice and stapled to the bench. He was given as many chances to make the Oilers as Kostin was to make the Blues. Its not even arguable that making our forward roster with the depth we have is harder than making the Oilers D which is fairly bad. Kostin lost his role to Toropchenko who is was the better 4th line mucker. That doesn't mean he was the worse player. It just meant we had no top 9 roles and he didn't commit himself to the grinding philosophy we wanted from the 4th line.

I disagree that Kostin failed to earn an NHL spot. I feel the Blues failed to acknowledge he earned it. Kostin's career .32 ppg average puts him around 26 point season with less than 10 minutes career ATOI. That is far better than any of the guys we held on to are doing for us this year. Pitlick, Walker, Toropchenko are all less thean .2 ppg this season. Neighbours despite his hot last several games is less ppg thank Kostin in a good bit more ATOI. Acciari who everyone is thrilled with is averaging a few more points over a season, but he is also getting 150% as much ATOI. So is the fact Kostin didn't make the team on him, or is it on the coaching staff for trying to stick a square peg in a round hole?

it is almost like we have gone back in time to Brian Sutter coaching

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The trade looks a lot different if we knew Kostin requested a trade. I suspect he did. I probably would have in the same situation.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

The trade looks a lot different if we knew Kostin requested a trade. I suspect he did. I probably would have in the same situation.

Me thinks the same.

 

[Mike Liut]

The trade looks a lot different if we knew Kostin requested a trade. I suspect he did. I probably would have in the same situation.

i doubt he requested a trade

 

[Blueston]

i doubt he requested a trade

He almost certainly did.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

Similarly to the Fabbri trade, I'm wondering if the Blues targeted the wrong players in return. I understand Fabbri's injury history and Kostin's struggles at the NHL level- but Samorukov doesn't look terribly promising and De La Rose was a clear 4th liner and now out of the NHL.

It's easy to look at this in hindsight, but Samorukov and De La Rose are low upside guys, IMO, and I feel like we might have been able to get more upside in draft picks or other players.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

i doubt he requested a trade

We don’t know for sure. Maybe we’ll learn some day. There’s kind of no reason for the team to make this trade midseason otherwise, though. Can you think of one? A burning desire to get what’s his name in return doesn’t pass the smell test.

 

[AVictoryDive]

Similarly to the Fabbri trade, I'm wondering if the Blues targeted the wrong players in return. I understand Fabbri's injury history and Kostin's struggles at the NHL level- but Samorukov doesn't look terribly promising and De La Rose was a clear 4th liner and now out of the NHL.

It's easy to look at this in hindsight, but Samorukov and De La Rose are low upside guys, IMO, and I feel like we might have been able to get more upside in draft picks or other players.

Kostin had little value after clearing waivers and not showing much at the NHL level. He’d have a good game then follow it up with lazy play and taking stupid penalties. I really loved his skill set and was really pulling for him but he was too bull headed in his approach.
Fabbri I do understand because he had immense potential but his knee injuries really did him in here and he was fighting to stay in our lineup and find his game. He requested a trade which can limit his value to teams and of course two knee surgeries too. Man if his knees held up he’d still be here but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

We know Fabbri requested a trade. This gives off a similar vibe to me.

 

[Stealth JD]

The lamenting over and pining for Klim Kostin is HILARIOUS. He failed with the chances he was given, failed to play the structured role to which he was assigned and got passed on the depth charts by multiple other players. Hard stop.

Nobody was criticizing the decisions to reassign and waive him during the past half-decade…but now that he’s showing a bit of promise (while still being basically a replacement-level skater) alongside a former #1OA pick, it’s somehow a “bad trade”? LOL

This board is bi-polar and short-attention span theatre. I love it.

 

[Xerloris]

Similarly to the Fabbri trade, I'm wondering if the Blues targeted the wrong players in return. I understand Fabbri's injury history and Kostin's struggles at the NHL level- but Samorukov doesn't look terribly promising and De La Rose was a clear 4th liner and now out of the NHL.

It's easy to look at this in hindsight, but Samorukov and De La Rose are low upside guys, IMO, and I feel like we might have been able to get more upside in draft picks or other players.

From my understanding Samorukov is a LD and is beasting it up for the Thunderbirds.

 

[Majorityof1]

The lamenting over and pining for Klim Kostin is HILARIOUS. He failed with the chances he was given, failed to play the structured role to which he was assigned and got passed on the depth charts by multiple other players. Hard stop.

Nobody was criticizing the decisions to reassign and waive him during the past half-decade…but now that he’s showing a bit of promise (while still being basically a replacement-level skater) alongside a former #1OA pick, it’s somehow a “bad trade”? LOL

This board is bi-polar and short-attention span theatre. I love it.

I did. I criticized the decision to waive him at the start of the year.

 

[Reality Czech]

The lamenting over and pining for Klim Kostin is HILARIOUS. He failed with the chances he was given, failed to play the structured role to which he was assigned and got passed on the depth charts by multiple other players. Hard stop.

Nobody was criticizing the decisions to reassign and waive him during the past half-decade…but now that he’s showing a bit of promise (while still being basically a replacement-level skater) alongside a former #1OA pick, it’s somehow a “bad trade”? LOL

This board is bi-polar and short-attention span theatre. I love it.

I don't think a single person is lamenting the loss of Kostin, unless of course it's someone I'm ignoring. This thread might have died if not for the Oiler fans who came over to keep it going.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Sheltering can improve one’s stats dramatically, just saying. Doesn’t mean we didn’t make the right decision and imo we did.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Klim fought Big Rig tonight. As soon as the puck dropped to start the 2nd, they went for it.

But instead of sparking his team, the Lightning score about a minute later.

 

[Brian39]

I disagree that Kostin failed to earn an NHL spot. I feel the Blues failed to acknowledge he earned it. Kostin's career .32 ppg average puts him around 26 point season with less than 10 minutes career ATOI. That is far better than any of the guys we held on to are doing for us this year. Pitlick, Walker, Toropchenko are all less thean .2 ppg this season. Neighbours despite his hot last several games is less ppg thank Kostin in a good bit more ATOI. Acciari who everyone is thrilled with is averaging a few more points over a season, but he is also getting 150% as much ATOI. So is the fact Kostin didn't make the team on him, or is it on the coaching staff for trying to stick a square peg in a round hole?

He cleared waivers on a league minimum contract. Every team in the league looked at him and decided that they preferred the guys on their NHL roster over him. Not a single team in the NHL felt that he had earned an NHL spot, including the team who traded for him and assigned him to their AHL affiliate.

You can't use this season's post-trade points to argue that he earned an NHL spot while he was here. In the 5 years he spent in the Blues organization, he had 11 points in 46 NHL games. That's a 19 point pace. His current 34 point pace through 31 games with the Oilers brings him up to a 26 point pace over his NHL career, but that isn't what he was doing or had done when trying to earn a spot in our forward group.

Acciari has 10 goals and 18 points through 46 games. Kostin had 5 goals and 11 points through 46 career games as a Blue. An 18 goal pace vs a 9 goal pace is hardly some small difference. Acciari is also playing a significantly more defensive role (39% vs 56% O Zone start rate at 5 on 5), kills penalties, is 53% at the dot, has 37 more hits than Kostin did, has a 19-6 takeaway/giveaway ratio vs Kostin's 10-19 ratio, and has 5 times as many shot blocks. Acciari is noticeably outproducing what Kostin did here AND contributing significantly more in just about every other aspect of play than Kostin did.

As to the Neighbours comparison: everyone agreed that he didn't earn an NHL spot as a 19 year old last year. The overwhelming consensus on Neighbours in November and December is that he wasn't playing well enough to stick in the NHL. For the first 22 of his whopping 31 career games, we all agree that he hadn't earned an NHL spot. No one was upset about him getting sent to the AHL. Then he scored 14 points in 19 AHL games, got called up when we had injuries and has 5 points in 9 NHL games since the recall.

Last year, Kostin had 6 points in 17 AHL games to go with his 9 points in 40 NHL games. He had 18 points in 43 games in the KHL the year before. He's never hit the 35 point mark as a pro. Each of his 4 AHL seasons saw him post a lower ppg than Neighbours did in his 19 games there this season. Kostin didn't have a single 9 game stretch with 5 points in the NHL last year.

Kostin didn't demonstrate NHL top 9 production at any level during his 5 years as a member of our organization. He couldn't hold on to a scoring role in the KHL or the AHL. You have to earn a chance at a top 9 NHL spot with your play outside the NHL or you have to seize hold of it when injuries put you there. He did neither in his time in our organization and and didn't excel in a bottom 6 role in our organization.

He didn't earn an NHL job here. He's seizing the opportunity that was provided to him with Kane getting hurt in Edmonton and has probably done enough to earn an NHL job for the rest of the year. I'm happy for him, but that doesn't mean he was screwed out of opportunity here.

 

[rumrokh]

Klim fought Big Rig tonight. As soon as the puck dropped to start the 2nd, they went for it.

But instead of sparking his team, the Lightning score about a minute later.

If I recall correctly, some cool nerds have crunched the numbers and fights do have a demonstrable boosting impact on scoring effects, but there is no pattern to which team they boost: the team in the lead, the team behind, the team whose fighter clearly won, clearly lost, doesn't matter.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

If I recall correctly, some cool nerds have crunched the numbers and fights do have a demonstrable boosting impact on scoring effects, but there is no pattern to which team they boost: the team in the lead, the team behind, the team whose fighter clearly won, clearly lost, doesn't matter.

Cool post!

I love that. It’s so holographic.

 

[oPlaiD]

If I recall correctly, some cool nerds have crunched the numbers and fights do have a demonstrable boosting impact on scoring effects, but there is no pattern to which team they boost: the team in the lead, the team behind, the team whose fighter clearly won, clearly lost, doesn't matter.

It's not hard to imagine that while your team's commentators are spewing cliches about how it was a great fight to give the team momentum the guys on the other team's broadcast are saying the exact same thing.

 

[BlueOil]

kostin reminds me of former blue chris porter, great to see him having some success versus the pacific division, but he's mostly a grinder/checker still in EDM it seems